Need help with a transfer student

Parents Forum
1

<p>I certainly could use some sound parental advice. My DS just completed his second year at a top 50 nationally ranked school in a warm climate. He is an environmental engineering major and has prepared transfer applications during each of his first two years. His current college was a safety and he was beyond disappointed with his results of the colleges that accepted him for frosh admissions. He has complained regularly about not feeling like he fits in at the current college but has been fairly social and has a reasonable group of friends and is part of the marching band. He works very hard and has very strong grades, which has afforded him the opportunity to submit transfer application for which he has submitted the last two years at his own discretion. </p>

<p>This week he was accepted as a transfer to the college that was one of his primary targets for freshman admissions but rejected him then and for the first transfer application a year ago. He has a legacy with the school and the school is very relevant in our family. When the acceptance letter arrived and he was informed he was very ambivalent about the acceptance. Note that he is rather exhausted from school and is currently at another top college summer school program taking two difficult classes. He also took 19 units last semester. </p>

<p>He also has complained in the past about the degree of partying that goes on at his college and not being particularly thrilled with the weather. He indicated a desire to be in a more seasonal climate rather than one that is just hot and humid. </p>

<p>He also prepared transfer applications for other top schools but has been waitlisted at all but one for which he must submit the summer program transcript and will then be further evaluated for admission to that school. Thus, the only acceptance to date is what I would call the dream school for him. Note that this school is at or near the top 10 nationally ranked schools and is a ranked engineering program. </p>

<p>He has brought up a number of issues such as it not being a semester system, having to start over with the professors and starting over in the social scene. Note that he has shown no interest in the Greek system; however he is likely to join the marching band and be very into the school spirit at said college. It is also noteworthy that I pay for all his tuition which is at full rate. . I initially spoke to him about the fact that he had a responsibility to challenge himself and strive for greater success and that his issues were minor and could be mitigated. We have tabled the conversation for another week until he returns from summer school and I said that he was to not make any notifications to any school without first discussing it with both parents.</p>

<p>Thus, I am thoroughly miffed at his second guessing the transfer. I also am struggling with the apparent lack of desire to rise to a challenge. The transfer school clearly has stronger opportunities for internships and networking and certainly is a much higher ranked program. I also am concerned that if the transfer is not completely successful that he would have me as the target of his frustration. We are also the type of family that allows our kids to make their own decisions, but in this case I am struggling with what I am sensing will be his rejection of the top program. </p>

<p>Any and all comments would be appreciated and in particular on how I might convince him to proceed with the transfer.</p>

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<p>He is at a top-50 school and doing well enough to get top-20 transfer acceptances. He’s starting to see ways that he really <em>has</em> connected at his current school. He is doing great in college. I say let him make this choice. </p>

<p>It is amazing and wonderful that you have the means and willingness to pay his full tuition. Encouraging him to take what you perceive as an advantageous or prestigious transfer is fine. Deciding that YOU ultimately know if the transfer is the right decision for your son is not. </p>

<p>Just be an open ear for him – without such an overpowering agenda. He has trepidations about transfering and he should. He is right that he would have to start over with all his connections. Also, who is to say that his top-50 isn’t the perfect amount of challenge plus support? Not every student <em>thrives</em> in over-competitive environments and nor should parents assume transfer is “better” just based on rank numbers.</p>

<p>Also, really, by the time one gets to a top 50 vs a top 40 or even a top 20 - the actual <em>quality</em> of instruction is not that much different. Those “rankings” are based on stupid stuff like alumni donation rates… so stop being so dazzled by the numbers and be more open to the idea that maybe your son is in a challenging, nurturing place and that nothing needs to be fixed and transfer is just an option, not a “cure” for anything wrong (because nothing is wrong!).</p>

<p>However, my advice of just listening is your best bet to keep transfer hopes alive - he is unsure and needs to process the risk vs opportunity costs w/o feeling pressured by his mother.</p>

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<p>@annikasorrensen - Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I am not so dazzled by the numbers but more by not wanting to kid to make a decision that he may regret. I certainly realize that it should be his decision but my job as a parent is to make sure that all the elements have been considered appropriately. He appears quite indecisive and this is not like him.</p>

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<p>I was a transfer student. I made my parents ambivalent because I was looking to transfer to a peer institution of similar ranking. But I had truly legitimate reasons for transferring (poor department in my major, massive budget cuts that was affecting the way I wanted my experience to be like, couldn’t find my niche in the student body). </p>

<p>I was very much in your S’s position when I was a second semester freshman. </p>

<p>But I was a sophomore transfer so it’s a bit different. At the same time, I DID get settle into that college and it made making the decision even more difficult. I was actually finding my place. But given that I had just experienced a personal crisis with a friend, I just wanted OUT. And it was an opportunity. If I didn’t like my new school, I could always go back. I never did even though emotionally I was ready just before my junior year. I was happier. I made new friends whom I liked. I built relationships with my professors (even though I did already at my first college). I didn’t want to leave for what I had worked for all year long.</p>

<p>So I can understand what your S is thinking. Building relationships with professors takes more than a semester, much longer than you think. So if he’s thinking about graduate school, he’s right. He will be able to have a wide range of professors who can help him rather than only a selected number as he might find in his new school because he would’ve had only 3-4 semesters for them to get to know him. Same goes for friendships. He already has a support system in place at his current school who know how he works and can give him the right support. At his new school, when he will be mostly in upper division classes, it’ll be more difficult for him to get that kind of support network as he begins those courses. Also, he has an opportunity to rise in leadership in the marching band at his current school because he knows the team well and has the experience.</p>

<p>It’s okay to say that you pay the money and you expect A, B, and C from him. You ARE giving him the challenge of rising to the occasion in which I do believe he will. I don’t believe, from my stand as a transfer student, that he is “throwing out” an opportunity. He probably thinks that with all the current opportunities he has and with the time left, he stands a better chance of putting together a very nice and well put together application for graduate school or employer. That means getting strong recommendations from professors, more stable GPA (due to semester system where one can really learn more over time than just cramming for the final exam), and build more relationships with the student body for future alumni connections.</p>

<p>One of the pains of being a transfer and I only wish someone had given me a fair warning is that the transfer student will ALWAYS second-guess. Right up to my graduation, I spent 3 YEARS second-guessing my decision because I had built so many opportunities for me by the end of my freshmen year for the following year. Even to this day, 5 years later, I’m still convinced that if I had stayed, I would have accomplished a lot more in terms of student activity leadership and languages because those two aspects got pretty messed up at my transfer school because I had to re-build relationships with my peers in order to get recommended for leadership and I wasn’t placed into intermediate level in my language that I ended up dropping it altogether. Not to mention a higher GPA as my new school had grade deflation. The feeling will never go away if he transfers. I have targeted my parents for it, saying, why did you let me transfer, why didn’t you tell me just to stick it out? They said it was my decision. But the deal was done. I had to learn to live with it.</p>

<p>So if your S really does have too much going on, he may just regret transferring to someplace where he will be only for 4 more semesters and has to start all over again.</p>

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<p>He might regret not transferring. He might regret transferring. And if he thinks you pushed him into a choice he later regrets, he will resent you for it.</p>

<p>My parents pushed me into a private high school I didn’t want to go to, and I hated it. Decades later I still resent them for it. They tried to push me into a prestigious university I didn’t want to go to and I deliberately sabotaged my application. (I’m not saying that I would have gotten in if I’d tried to, but I wasn’t certain that I would be rejected.) I consider my first choice state university to have been among the best choices I ever made in my life.</p>

<p>Don’t push him to take the transfer. Push him to explore his options fully, to consider both the guaranteed pros and cons and the risks and possible but uncertain benefits of each choice, but let the choice be his. If he makes a decision he later regrets, that won’t be the end of the world – and unless he is very immature he won’t blame you for not forcing him to do something he didn’t want to do even though he’s an adult. If he thinks you really made the decision and he thinks it was a bad one, it can hurt your relationship. And it doesn’t sound like the worse of the two options (by your standards) is anywhere near bad enough to risk that.</p>

6

<p>So many great comments, as the mother of a soph transfer I can relate to all of them. </p>

<p>D1 was accepted to lots of top privates at a fr, but it was a year before the change in FA policies for mid/upper income level families and so we qualified for minimal aid. So, with Med school likely in the future, she chose (I was actually very surprised) a top public with a full ride merit scholarship. She went into fr year with high hopes and enthusiasm but was disappointed for various reasons, it wasn’t what she’d expected and hoped for, so at Christmas she decided to apply for transfers. By the end of the school year she had both a better feeling for her school, friends and activities, but also several transfer acceptances to consider. So she made another hard decision and decided that with the good fortune of getting a second chance and it being financially much more doable, she’d make the change.</p>

<p>She says when she looks back now, she’s glad she transferred, that on the whole it is a better college experience for her. But she also realizes that with more maturity and patience that she could have made her other school work as well. In a way she feels lucky to have had two very different college experiences, each has their positive and negative aspects.</p>

<p>I think it’s harder for a jr transfer, because they’ve made more connections at their current school and they’ll have less time to establish ties at their new school. Considering transferring is daunting in so many aspects, I think he’s realistic to have second thoughts, it would be naive not to. He just has to go with his gut, and then believe in himself and the decision he made. My advice to you is to be patient and let him make up his mind, he doesn’t sound like he’s taking it lightly, but rather struggling with the myriad of pros and cons to each decision. I truly feel for both you and him, transferring is not for sissies.</p>

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<p>Thank you all for the wonderful comments and insight. This is tremendously helpful.</p>

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<p>Very few colleges don’t have a “party aspect” to them - even ivies/elites. </p>

<p>I can’t imagine a top 20 school is going to be “more challenging” than a top 50. Seriously, there isn’t that big of a difference. Ranking differences involve a lot more than “level of difficulty.”</p>

<p>the weather is a different issue.</p>

<p>Let him decide.</p>

<p>Which schools are these?</p>

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<p>ticklemepink, I’m sure if you hadn’t transferred you’d be second-guessing yourself just as much. It the nature of the beast. No university is perfect, it’s just a matter of figuring out which is best for you and which drawbacks you can live with and which you can’t.</p>

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<p>A few years ago, I decided I hated our house and that we needed to move to a better school district. I complained a lot about both, and spent my weekends looking at real estate in Nicer Suburb.</p>

<p>We came pretty close to moving, but in the end decided that we could live with the negatives of the current setting because the potential benefit to be had by moving wasn’t significant enough to make the effort and expense worth it.</p>

<p>The grass is often greener until someone opens a gate in the fence.</p>

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<p>My daughter was also a sophomore transfer. She transferred from a top 50 to a top 20. She wanted to transfer during the first year, but at the end of her second semester decided to stay, but went she went back for her third semester she decided she couldn’t take it and transferred to what had always been her first choice. She had been accepted to the first choice school as a freshman, but was awared a full tuition+ scholarship to the first school.</p>

<p>She is glad she transferred, she graduated in May, but like TickleMePink, she has periods of second guessing herself. I think her second school was a better fit for her, however if you want to go on to grad school, med school, etc, the later you transfer in the harder it is to make the connection, get the internships, do the research. I really feel like if she had spent four years at one school, the grad school application process would have been easier in the sense that she would have built bonds with professors to mentor her and give her the information on why she should study for the GREs, what kind of internships looks best. I feel like she missed the bonds she would have formed if she had been on campus from the beginning.</p>

<p>I think your son’s reasons for not transferring are legitimate in terms of how it will impact his future for grad school. I do think that it will be harder for him to make the connections, etc he will need because he will only have a year to show the professors, etc what he can do.</p>

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<p>Any additional advice on the semester to quarter transition? I have read the posts in other forums and it appears that he students eventually adjust.</p>

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<p>I don’t think it’s a deal breaker, they both have their pros and cons. There is the positive of being finished with the quarter over winter break. He might want to be sure about how his credits transfer over to the new school. My D had a friend who went the other way around and got 1 semester credit for each qt credit, that made her happy!</p>

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<p>It could be that deep down inside all your son wanted was an acceptance letter from his first choice school that rejected him as a freshman. Now that that demon has been exorcised he is realizing that he can be satisfied where he is and the transfer represents a risk that he is not sure he wants to take.</p>

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<p>@lemaitre1 - I did think that was a possibility but the effort that it takes to prepare the application and get letters of recommendation would certainly make it something that I would not do. I look forward to actually engaging him when he returns from the summer program. Right now there is no communication as he is in the last week of his classes and has the final exams upcoming. Thus, it is a rather challenging time as I can’t really address the issues with him.</p>

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<p>When I transferred, I had cold feet. My old school was not a great fit, but at least it was familiar. And things were getting better the last semester I was there. A year later I’m glad I transferred, but a year ago I was questioning my decision to transfer.</p>

<p>I wouldn’t bug your son about transferring until his summer courses are over, for your son doesn’t have to withdraw from his current school until right before school starts. His current school might even let him take a leave of absence… so he could have the option to return in a semester or a year. </p>

<p>Once your son has recovered from his summer courses, I would ask him what he’s thinking. (Does he have cold feet, or did he find happiness?) Ask him, if the current school is what he wants out of his college experience. Remind your son that this school wouldn’t have accepted him if the admissions committee didn’t think he could do the work. Point out that there are many advantages to having contacts at two different schools, and that it can be easier to meet people (and be happy) at a school that’s a better fit. The admissions office can probably put him in touch with someone in the marching band. Would you consider paying for a trip to visit his old college/ friends after he has adjusted? If so, tell him that. </p>

<p>Remember, it’s ultimately your son’s choice. The fastest way to make a young person dig in his heels is to tell him what to do. It’s entirely possible that I would have been happy if I had stayed at my old school. I have stayed in touch with old friends and professors, so I think I’ve gotten the best of both worlds. However, I must point out that there are advantages to being a top student at a less competitive school.</p>

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<p>@college_rule - excellent advice and perspective. Thank you.</p>

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<p>Definitely is your son’s decision. Just let him know that you believe that he can finish off his college career at either place with a bang and that you support his decision, whatever it turns out to be.</p>

<p>As for the grass being greener somewhere else, I’ve come to the conclusion that the grass is brown here; the grass is brown over there; the grass is brown everywhere! There is no green grass…LOL!</p>

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<p>Just to add a different anecdote… I was talking with a co-worker about math this week. She transferred from her local state U to Rice for electrical engineering. It was a pretty difficult transition for her – she didn’t know the faculty, didn’t know which classes to take (or avoid) from whom, didn’t learn the material as well, had some trouble making friends, and had some health issues on top of everything else. Knowing her family dynamics, I’m pretty sure she transferred to Rice under parental pressure.
It worked out ok, but she would have been happier and more successful if she’d stayed at the public U.
One good thing came of it: She met her husband there. Incidentally, her parents don’t like him. :rolleyes:</p>

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<p>@greek_mom - cute story about the co-worker meeting her husband at Rice.</p>

<p>I think my S will come around and go for it. I certainly agree that it must be his decision as I do not want any part of the resentment that comes when parents force their sons or daughters to do something. As college_ruled indicated, that is the one way to make the person go in the opposite direction.</p>

<p>I also think I will do everything to maximize the time frame for the decision. Again college_ruled noted the idea of cancelling the current college just before the semester begins or possibly taking a leave of absence. An excellent strategy in the event that DS changes his mind and finds he can’t make the transition. </p>

<p>I was fairly aggressive with him in our initial conversation but have completely backed off and plan to let him initiate the conversation. This child is my oldest and I am more forthright about what he should do but both my kids have always had strong input on the decisions. They made their own high school schedules, picked ECs, and selected summer programs which included programs at Brown, UC and GW. Our parenting style is one of review and supervision when warranted. It has worked well so far and this is really the first sign of indecision that I have noticed with my oldest. This is really what prompted me to seek advice here from the excellent parents and students on this forum. The collective advice has been invaluable as it has caused me to pause and rethink a strategy that I believe will get him to the proper place. It will either reaffirm that he is committed to his current college or it will result in him building confidence in himself that he was able to conquer another challenge. He is tired now with the length of his scholastic calendar and he just needs a break so that he can gain some clarity on the issue. Now I just need to back off and buy him some time.</p>