I have been playing the violin since I was 3 year old, but do not want to go to a conservatory.
I want to study international relations with a statistics background, while continuing to pursue music (take lessons, perform solos and chamber music, maybe minor in music).
I have a pretty long list of colleges I want to apply to and I’m having trouble narrowing it down. I also do not have any ‘safety schools’.
I want to know…
Which of these schools would not be good in terms of continuing music?
What are some ‘safety schools’ I could apply to that would still allow me to have a satisfying music experience?
(I am an international student, so location within the US does not matter too much. I want to live in a urban or suburban area. I prefer schools with a good residential college system. My grades and test scores are pretty strong.)
Yale
Johns Hopkins
Rice
USC
Harvard
University of Washington
Boston University
Columbia
Tufts
Stanford
UC Berkeley
UC San Diego
MIT
Brown
Princeton
One thing to think about is the potential disadvantages of not being a student in the music school, at universities that have music schools. Some of your schools are in this category. This is something that you need to really check into.
For instance, do the best teachers and performance opportunities go to the BM students? Would you end up studying with a grad student? Do you have access to teachers off campus? Do you envision performing on campus or off?
Yale, Johns Hopkins, Rice, USC, BU, U. of Washington, BU have music schools or conservatory. You may want a “music department” instead. But check it out further.
I happen to know the Tufts music dept., which is excellent, as is that of MIT of course. The Ivies you mention would all be good choices, as would your California schools (UCSD tends toward the innovative in music at the grad level.)
So great list of schools but varied in that some have BM programs (music school or conservatory) and some have a BA program (music department). Since you are not majoring in music, this may or may not mean different experiences and each school will have its nuances. Read websites and talk to the schools and good luck!
Your best bet is to ask the schools involved about how music for a non major works. For example, the Ivies tend to have strong music programs (Yale School of Music is graduate, they don’t offer an undergraduate BM), they look for musically talented kids in admissions and have chamber and orchestra programs and will also pay for lessons. You could run into problems with a school like Rice or Johns Hopkins or BU, because they do offer performance degrees, and if they segregate majors from non majors, as a non major you could end up in an orchestra/chamber program that isn’t that strong, or end up with a grad student as a teacher (each school is different, and using my example the only way to know would be to contact the programs). USC likewise had a performance program, so you could have the same problem.
I would e-mail the admissions department of each and ask, if the website doesn’t say, ask them about what opportunities they offer non majors, and if they offer a performance degree, how does that affect what non majors can do in terms of orchestra, lessons and chamber, if non majors are off in their own thing…
One other thing, Princeton has a performance certificate and Harvard now gives credit for lessons and many performances. I heard they are considering a certificate as well. Not sure what Yale is up to.
I’ll try to answer in very general terms. Schools use these terms sometimes interchangeably so you should check the degree requirements at each school. But in general:
A performance certificate (sometimes a PD or AD) is generally a graduate school term for serious performance students. You can disregard for now.
A BA (Bachelor of Arts) in music is usually about 50% music classes and 50% other liberal arts requirements. If your concentration is intl relations I would guess at least half the courses would concentrate on those core classes with gen eds and electives making up the other 50%.
A BS (Bachelor of Science) in music may be similar to a BA (but this term is not as common as BA).
With both degrees above you can do more music studies but you only have to do about 50% music. So they are generally more flexible. Why one school says BA and one BS can be a mystery.
A BM is generally 75% music study and 25% general eds. At conservatories it may be even more music study.
In the end it is best to look at the degree requirements semester by semester at each school to see what will work for you. But if you don’t want to major in music the BM is out. A BA (or sometimes a BS depending on how schools define international relations) would probably allow you to study international relations core classes 50% of the time and weave in music studies as your art requirement and electives allowing you to minor in music.
Many schools have BA programs in which music majors only do 1/4 to 1/3 classes in music.
BM programs have auditions for entrance. BA programs have the Common Application with an optional arts supplement possible that would detail music experiences, studies, performances, letters of recommendation and so on.
The performance certificate I mentioned at Princeton is unusual and not the diploma that bridgenail describes as a grad program. Princeton just puts together some classes, lessons, performance and makes it into a certificate. To me, almost a marketing thing because other schools offer the same classes, lessons and performance.
There are also dual degree programs (5 years usually), both BA/BM and BA/MM (at Harvard), dual majors and major/minor options.
At USC you only have to audition at the music school to be able to take music lessons, practice in the practice rooms or perform in any of the various music venues available.You dont have to have a music minor to do any of the above , though music majors and minors DO have first dibs on registration for music classes. USC has LOTS of International students, and in 2017 the new University Village residential campus will be finished allowing all UG’s to live on campus all 4 years.
Yale’s music scene is vibrant, even though sage commentators have correctly pointed out that you can get lessons with graduate students, and other issues. The arts community is so exciting, and there are so many ensembles to get involved with. Oh, and that graduate student that you were disappointed to get for lessons will turn out to be fabulously talented. It is easy to get from Yale to New York, so you can go to concerts in NYC from time to time.
My daughter (just graduated) had many musical friends, and people I know who have looked into the music scene say it’s really fun to be involved there.
I agree with Tufts and Brandeis for music and International Relations. Also add Hamilton and Vassar since it is ‘easier’ to double major there since there are few distribution requirement. Check out Susquehanna as a safety - I think they are strong in International Relations. You mention a strong residential housing system as a requirement. Almost all Vassar students live on campus all for four years. Check out the other schools and whether they have housing all four years on campus. Listen to the concerts (webcasts) to determine if the level of music is what you need - Vassar has theirs posted on the music department webpage.
New SAT: 1510 (reading730 math780)
GPA: 4.8 out of 5
Extracurriculars: Violin for 15 years, orchestra, independent research in political science, school leadership roles, etc.
Fortunately, my family is willing to pay as much as needed.
At many of these schools you would not audition to be a music major. Many of your schools do not have a performance BM degree. For the schools without a conservatory/music school, you can do an arts supplement to the common app with recording or video, music resume, letters from teachers/directors etc. No audition for admission, but there are auditions for extracurricular performance.
Have you considered the issue of going to a school with BM students in conservatory/music school on the same campus, and the potential impact on opportunities? This pertains to Hopkins, BU, USC, Rice, maybe Yale, U. of Washington.
“Would there be a big difference in my experience if I do not audition to be a music major and minor instead?”
When DS first started at USC he was SURE he wanted to do at least a music minor- that is the reason he auditioned . As time went on he realized he would not be able to do both a minor in music- class scheduling conflicts, etc, etc- as well as all the classes required by his major and another minor that was important to take, but he was always able to take lessons from USC music teachers, take a few classes [in music composition], and continue to practice any time he wanted in the music practice rooms. All that because he had “passed the bar”- shown that he knew his stuff- by auditioning when he first arrived.
Menloparkmom, it sounds like your son auditioned after arrival, not for admission, right?
Musicians have the option of majoring in anything, and taking lessons, practicing, taking music classes, and performing on or off campus. Many talented students do this and still get into grad school for music or move on to work in or out of music.
he auditioned when he visited the campus the second time, before he was admitted.
At USC, because it does have a separate college of music, the ability to practice on campus, in the music building is restricted to students who HAVE auditioned, and passed the requirements for admission for music minors. Those students have a sticker on their student ID cards.
not any student can waltz in and use a practice room.
Nearly every top tier college on your list will have multiple opportunities to participate in orchestra, chamber, accompanying and more. Be aware of what a music minor entails, beyond practice and performance.
The top schools you note will review you holistically. There will be strong competition from your country. Do you have the stats and do you know the rest of what it will take to get an admit?
ps. at this point, not sure an email to admissions would get the prompt attention. Consider calling admissions and asking for a dept contact. (One of the dept staff that reviews music supps may be willing to speak with you. Or anyone in the dept, with the knowledge.)
there is no pattern.
you have to look at each schools website and see what they require.
colleges that have separate music conservatories or colleges will most probably require a recording be sent in with applications.
this is what the Thorton School of music at USC requires.
I would imagine that its requirements are similar to other top music programs. https://music.usc.edu/admission/stepsforapplying/
"Determine the specific Application Requirements for your chosen program, including prescreen recordings, compositions, or lyric sheets where appropriate. Materials should be uploaded through SlideRoom, which you will access through the “Portfolio” link in the Common Application. By selecting a Thornton program in the first-choice major field, the Common Application will automatically populate with the following text: “Because of the major you selected above, you will need to submit a Portfolio for your program to complete your application.” Select “Yes” and refer to the Portfolio Instructions in the left hand column. The fee for SlideRoom is $25.
You will also include a Résumé and Repertoire List through this Portfolio section. A Statement of Purpose is also required for Music Industry and Choral Music.
All required materials must be received by December 1. Please note that this is NOT a postmark deadline."