Need help with college list, several limitations

College Search & Selection
1

I am trying to help come up with a list which includes safeties, matches, and reaches. There are a couple of issues that are causing some difficulty. First is the fact that most of the schools that we are familiar with and most of our friends and family have knowledge of are most likely not economically feasible. My son would likely get lots of aid at a meets-full-need school, however most of those are very selective and definitely a reach, plus since most are not in our region I am not sure how well he would fit in if he were lucky enough to be admitted.

Class of 2019 at a small, rural high school
GPA is listed at about 3.95, it doesnā€™t specify and I am assuming is UW
Numerical GPA is 95.5
Current rank is 7/62
ACT taken twice and made 24 both times(with different section scores)
Plan to take ACT in August and SAT in September
On advanced diploma track, taking highest level courses, no honors or AP at our school
Lots of ECā€™s, though nothing groundbreaking. Officer positions, clubs, job, church and community involvement.
White male, not first generation college
Parents divorced, neither remarried
very low income, food stamps and Medicaid
father is on disability and kids draw a check which stands in place of child support
Alabama is state of residence
2 younger siblings which will not be in college at same time
Undecided but considering engineering or nursing
The most I could possibly contribute is around $1,000 per year, and that would be a huge stretch. Probably wouldnā€™t get anything more than that, if that much from his father.

I have ran the NPC for several state schools in Alabama and Mississippi and they are all unaffordable.

Reaches: Vanderbilt, possibly Notre Dame, there are several others that are full need and very selective but Iā€™m not sure what the campus culture is and whether they would be a fit.

Iā€™m having a hard time with matches and safeties because while there are plenty that would fit academically they donā€™t fit financially.

Iā€™m thinking that he will fill out the HBCU application and see what merit money he gets from those schools. Alabama State, Alabama A&M, Jackson State University, and Prarie View A&M are possibilities, especially if he raises his scores a little bit.

The closest schools to where we live are Northwest-Shoals Community College and University of North Alabama, about 45 minutes and 1 hour away respectively. Commuting would involve quite a bit of expense(gas, vehicle insurance and repairs) which would need to be figured into things.

Are there any possibilities that I have missed?

2

If he is going to apply to some meet need schools, you would want to look at the lower ranked schools, not ND or Vanderbilt. A significant problem is his low test scores. Not sure how much prep he did, but Iā€™d assume some if he took the ACT twice already. He should do as much test prep as he can, as higher scores would open up more options. If you Google the Common Data Set at ND or Vanderbiilt, you will see that he would need a huge test score boost to be competitive for admission at those two. Look at Holy Cross, for example (but he will still need higher scores).

One school that comes to mind is Dickinson. They are test optional, so he could skip sending test scores, and they meet 99% of need ā€” BUT they donā€™t have either of the majors you mentioned. Canā€™t remember who, but I feel like someone out here had a nephew from a rural area in the south attend there, and I think it is going well. Check out their website. They also have an EA round ā€” he should consider applying EA if he decides to apply, they like early applicants.

Iā€™d assume that he will plan to take out his federal loans and would have work study to earn a couple thousand during the school year. And can he find work in the summer to save a bit for the school year, too?

3

Presumably, he is prepping to try for a higher ACT or SAT score. It looks like Prairie View A&M is the school with his desired majors that has the lowest score needed for an automatic full ride (26 ACT or 1260 SAT); some others may also be available at higher test scores.

Alabama State does not have engineering or nursing. It needs a 26 ACT or 1240 SAT. Mississippi Valley State needs only a 24 ACT (which he has), but also does not have engineering or nursing.

Both divorced parents will complete financial aid forms for the reach schools, right? Many of them require both parents (Vanderbilt is an exception in most cases).

4

Yes, he will take out the student loans if necessary and I would imagine he will have work study(though that wonā€™t be available at the beginning of the year). He has been working since he was 15 so working in the summer shouldnā€™t be a problem, though currently most of it is going for gas and other typical expenses since I am unable to provide funds for all of his activities.

The reason I said Vanderbilt and ND is because those are schools we are familiar with, Vandy is only about 3 hours away and he has been a huge ND fan for years(he has gotten a lot of ribbing about that) and has been to the campus. He has received information from several schools like Colby, Mcalester, Tulane, and others but I was afraid that some of those places might be a bit of culture shock for him, being raised in a rural Alabama town with very conservative Christian values. I also noticed that several of the LACā€™s donā€™t have engineering or nursing and most of the majors didnā€™t sound like something he would be interested in, math and science are definitely his strongest subjects.

I believe that he should be able to raise his scores(though Iā€™m not sure how much) but he doesnā€™t seem very confident in his ability to do so. His first ACT was right after 10th grade and he did not prepare, plus it was the day after he returned from being gone for a week for FFA convention, he actually fell asleep during the English section. He was very disappointed with his 2nd score because he had prepped some for it(not enough obviously) and had the same composite score. It was administered at his school and he said he was a lot more nervous than the one at the testing center. I paid the extra $20 to receive his test and answers from the first time and I think he spent too much time practicing that test instead of the practice tests in the ACT book. His English score went up but his math went down, science stayed the same, and I think there was a very slight change in reading. He also had the writing section which he didnā€™t take the first time.

5

Yes, I donā€™t foresee any issues getting his father to cooperate with the financial information requirements. We filed bankruptcy in 2015 while we were still together and he is now on disability(though he is trying to get another teaching job), so not a lot of income and no real assets. Total income for me, his disability, and the checks which the kids draw, is going to be under $40,000 per year. If he can get into a full need school then he should receive significant aid, but most of those schools are long shots.

He applied for Questbridge last year and I am going to encourage him to try again this year. His class is very competitive and always has been but his ACT is one of the higher scores, so Iā€™m wondering if they just arenā€™t being prepared well compared to schools in other places.

6

Your sonā€™s ACT is very low and somewhat undermines his excellent GPA. Has he considered trying the SAT? The SAT might be a better test for him as it is a little bit of a slower test. Given that finances are a concern I suggest he create a (free) account on KhanAcademy.org. It is a wonderful siteā€“everything is free. Create a study plan leading up to the next feasible test date. Take a practice test and then the system will start adjusting to his areas of weakness. He should study every single dayā€“the system allows to customize a study plan with as little as 20 minute increments. Even 20 minutes a day really adds up. Getting his scores up whether ACT or SAT might enable some merit aid to come his way as well.

7

Yes, I recently got an SAT fee waiver from his guidance counselor and plan to register him for the next test date which is September I think, but registration wasnā€™t yet open last time I checked. I had discovered Khan Academy, though he hasnā€™t been home enough when Iā€™m home to get him to take a look at it. I didnā€™t realize that you could create a study plan or that it would adjust to his areas of weakness, that sounds great and I will definitely see if I can get him started on that. I might can sell him on 20 minutes per day, that doesnā€™t sound so intimidating and should be very doable.

8

Sorry youā€™re in such a tight spot.

Since he got different subscores each time on the ACT, what is his ā€œsuperscoreā€ (sum of the best scores heā€™s gotten on each section)? Some colleges superscore and others do not.

Here are some schools to look at:
Union College in NY - has engineering, meets full need, and is test-optional https://www.union.edu/admissions/apply/test-policy/
Trinity College in CT - has engineering, meets full need, and superscores
Lafayette College in PA - has engineering, meets full need, superscores
Bucknell U in PA - has engineering, meets 91% of need on average, superscores
Lehigh U in PA - has engineering, meets 97% of need on average, superscores
Syracuse University in NY - has engineering, meets 93% of need on average, superscores
University of Miami in FL - has engineering and nursing, meets 89% of need on average, superscores
Tulane in New Orleans - has engineering, meets 96% of need on average, superscores
University of Rochester in NY - has engineering, meets 95% of need on average, superscores
Trinity University in TX - has engineering, meets 93% of need on average, superscores
St. Olaf in MN - no engineering, but does have nursing as well as strong math/science https://wp.stolaf.edu/nursing/application/ , meets 98% of need, superscores (If youā€™re worried about culture shock at larger more urban schools, St. Olaf is small, rural, and theoretically a ā€œdry campusā€)

Hope thatā€™s helpful. If heā€™s not 100% set on engineering, definitely look at how easy it is to switch majors at a given school and consider going in as a non-engineering major. Admissions can be more competitive for aspiring engineers, and if itā€™s not even something heā€™s sure about, it might be better for him to have to work his way into the major than to miss out on the school altogether. Applying as, for example, a physics or math major can be a less steep path, depending on the school.

(Edit - sorry, removed diversity references above - Iā€™d seen the part about HBCUā€™s and missed the ā€œwhite maleā€ part.)

9

I would particularly suggest taking a close look at St. Olaf. While it doesnā€™t have engineering, it does have a very strong department of math, statistics and computer science, as well as physics, chem, etc. and a nursing program. Unlike most of the others I listed, it is small and rural. The stats are not out of line; they superscore the ACT, and their 25th percentile ACT is 25, so your sonā€™s superscored ACT would have to be at or above that threshold. And his GPA is above their average.

Most notable: while their overall admit rate is around 40%, the Early Decision admit rate is 80%! Your son seems like a solid candidate to make that cut, at the school states strongly that theyā€™re committed to helping students admitted ED to attend: https://wp.stolaf.edu/admissions/early-decision/

If their Net Price Calculator yields a favorable result, Iā€™d say this school would be worth close consideration.

10

How about FAMU? Heā€™d have big time football with FSU.

11

Iā€™m concerned with his test scores and foundational ability to handle college classes, so if he were my lad, Iā€™d put more investigation into this. As Center (above) suggested, sign up for Kahn Academy (free) and have him run some of the things on there.

If it ends up being solely a testing issue (he doesnā€™t perform well on timed tests), then Iā€™d look at Test Optional Schools and apply to those. He should be able to hold his own. There are other kids like him. This is why Test Optional Schools came about. Theyā€™re a great thing IME.

If it ends up being a knowledge issue (his school didnā€™t adequately prepare him), then heā€™s likely to have problems (esp in engineering) wherever he goes because the other kids there will know things he hasnā€™t been exposed to and he will feel like heā€™s a failure because they all ā€œget itā€ easily and he doesnā€™t. You donā€™t want to set him up for that. Chances are heā€™s very intelligent. Heā€™s already showing he can keep up with all heā€™s been presented with, itā€™s just the bar at the school could be very low.

If this latter situation is the case, how are the Community Colleges near you? Can he enroll in classes as a senior (counting them as DE - Dual Education classes for high school credit)? Can he at the very least take a placement test there to see how he does? (This too can help you decide between the ā€œreasonsā€ above for his low test scores.)

IMO, this really is where you need to start - and quickly - before applying to places.

FWIW, I work in a statistically average high school. Most kids in our school score at average on the SAT/ACT which for my state is between 23-24 ACT:

https://www.act.org/content/dam/act/unsecured/documents/cccr2017/ACT_2017-Average_Scores_by_State.pdf

For many it is because the bar is set very low. I find it unfortunate the many of our very good students donā€™t get a better foundational start. They could certainly do better if they had the chance, but they donā€™t.

Looking up ALā€™s average score (from the link above), your lad is above average for your area. Have him work with Kahn. He might easily be able to raise that score just from the (excellent) resources they provide. Itā€™s very worth trying - it could produce the equivalent of thousands of dollars in scholarships (probably in need based aid) via acceptances. Thereā€™s no real harm if it doesnā€™t work. At least heā€™ll have tried.

Another note Iā€™ve seen in my 19 year history with studentsā€¦ Those who go away to school often do far better when they feel they can keep up with other students. Itā€™s when they feel they canā€™t - that theyā€™re dumb - that they have problems. However, equally as important is finding a group of friends. Once your lad gets in somewhere, be sure to start prepping him to join groups (clubs, organizations, study groups, etc). He doesnā€™t have to fall in love with all he tries (ok to drop those that donā€™t impress him), but trying several ought to help him find his peers. Couple peers with a decent academic foundation and Iā€™ve yet to see someone not do well no matter how far they go from home.

Folks here have made great suggestions for schools to consider so Iā€™ll end my lengthy post just dealing with the scores end of it.

12

Youā€™re getting good advice here. In terms of ACT, could it be a pacing issue? Did you notice he had pretty good accuracy but didnā€™t finish the sections? ACT is a very fast paced test. SAT math is a bit hard but fewer questions but it may be better, as others said. Encourage him during practice tests to time himself so he can figure out ensuring heā€™s on track. My daughter took off her watch and had it next to her so she could check her pace periodically. Sometimes you gotta cut bait with a problem in order to make it through the whole section.

Otherwise agree with St. Olaf and the testing optional schools. In particular, Wake Forest is test optional, Southern so may be good culture fit, and does very well with need-based aid. They have an almost brand new engineering program so it might not be as competitive as some other schoolsā€™ engineering, but Iā€™m not sure about nursing.

I have a good feeling heā€™s going to end up somewhere awesome!

13

Hiram College is need blind for admissions and usually (94.9% need fully met) meets need. Great choice for nursing.
Run the net price calculator. Remember most schools will expect the student to contribute, so student savings, a percent of income if he has been working a lot and student loans can make up what the school calculates for the EFC. They do have a 2+3 engineering program with Case Western, but I would steer my student away from this school if he ends up wanting engineering not nursing or another major Hiram offers. I just think picking a school with the intent to finish elsewhere isnā€™t a good strategy (it takes longer and costs more). Iā€™d really work hard to find an affordable school that he can complete a degree heā€™d be happy with in four years. https://www.hiram.edu/academics/undergraduate/

It can be very expensive to change schools - and he is a strong enough student academically that missing out on freshman awards may cost him more in the long run. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/17/starting-out-at-community-college-seems-like-a-really-good-idea-until-its-not.html

University of Toledo (has engineering with mandatory co-op and nursing plus many other majors) would offer him $14,000 in automatic merit aid. http://www.utoledo.edu/admission/freshman/scholarships/2018/out-of-state.html

29,000 approx OOS cost

-14,000 auto merit

15,000

- 6,000 approx need aid (pell/work study)

9,000

- 5,500 student loan

3,500

- 1,000 mom's contribution

2,500 ā† with a summer job he should be able to cover this, if he canā€™t save this kind of money where he is, he should be looking at resort work for the summer after hs that includes housing where he can make enough to save for college and picking a school with good co-ops

The key to getting an affordable education is being flexible and willing to take advantage of the opportunities heā€™ll be offered.

14

ā€œIn particular, Wake Forest is test optional, Southern so may be good culture fitā€

Wake definitely would fit with a southern culture. On the other hand, it also feels very wealthy, white and Greek. But probably no more so than Vandy. Iā€™m just not sure how much fun it would be to be on full scholarship living there.

15

@milee30 ā€“ yes, I think of Vandy and Wake Forest as pretty similar vibe but prolly even more $$ at Vandy. I do know that Wake is doing more to support first gen students (which is not OPā€™s student), and in general they are small enough to provide a lot of attention to all students. Culturally ā€“ I have no idea if itā€™d be good fit but if he likes, Vandyā€¦ . Based on my interaction with them they are trying to be less of a wealthy enclave ā€“ how that translates to a studentā€™s experience, I donā€™t know.

16

I agree with @Creekland-his scores would concern meā€“meaning I would want to know more about why the disparity between the score and the grades. One other suggestion: khan has practice tests. Perhaps do a baseline practice test firstā€“and really see where he lands. (thats what we did). Then their system can adjust to the results. I cannot more highly recommend Khan Academy. It is beautifully designed-super functionalā€“instant feedback-unlimited practice and offers test preparation for a number of tests as well as all of the basic topics in school for extra help or preparation.

17

You are getting great advice. I agree with Greekland, As an engineer, I can attest that the major can be cutthroat, difficult and stressful. If he has less than stellar math scores on the act or sat he may find himself at a disadvantage. He may also have difficulty getting into an engineering program. Direct entry nursing programs also seem very competitive. Has he taken Calculus?

You may want to look at Catholic U. They have engineering and nursing and according to my daughter, who did an overnight visit there last fall, very conservative. Regis College in MA has a great nursing program, is about 20 miles outside Boston, and seems to offer great money to male applicants. It is also Catholic. Marquette U also offers both engineering (incredible relatively new building) and nursing. It is a Jesuit school. Not sure about money at any of these schools, except a couple of my sonā€™s friends got a lot of money from Regis. My son got full tuition from Marquette, but because of test scores and a subsequent dept competition. My D has a friend who got great merit money from WPI in Worcester MA, not sure how they are with need based aid. Another major he may find of interest, considering his interest in nursing, is Public Health. I donā€™t know much about it, but it may be less competitive than nursing.

Best to you and your son.

18

Keep in mind what milee30 said. Your son will not want to be the kid who cannot afford to go out for a coffee, a movie or whatever with his classmates. He will need some spending money, like that from work study. Probably more money if he is attending a school in the city. You want to budget for that.

19

For a full list of test optional institutions visit FairTest.org. He is first gen and low income, his grades are good, heā€™s from a rural area, some places might like that diversity a lot.

He also can look at the list of work colleges at WorkColleges.org He is precisely the sort of student those places were founded to help.

20

You mentioned he hadnā€™t really done a lot of practice tests when studying, and you might be able to get him to do 20 min per day. We found it easier in our family to set aside 2 hours late Sunday afternoon (we targeted 4 pm to 6 pm most weekends). Sheā€™d take timed practice sections (not the full test), then we would go over the material from that section. She made flash cards for what she missed, and took in questions I couldnā€™t help with to teachers Monday. Khan for that period could also work.

You mentioned he is better in math & science. That might seem like it would make the ACT a better fit, since it has a science section, but that section is reading intensive. So a test where the score is more 50/50 like the SAT might be better. It can be hard to bring up the English/reading scores (easier to prep for the math sections in general, I think).