Need help with FA situation

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<p>Your grandparents certainly can help you with your college costs if they are able to do so. </p>

<p>Just FYI...no one is "obligated" to pay for your college education. My husband and I (married and living with the kids) are not "obligated" to pay for college. BUT the FAFSA and Profile calculations compute an expected family contribution that is based on parent/step parent income and assets (in the case of Profile, this includes both custodial parent/spouse and non-custodial parent and spouse). Any parent can say they won't pay and this does happen...even for kids who are living in intact families. </p>

<p>Yours really is a unique situation. Discussing it with the financial aid folks at the schools will give you the best idea of what to expect.</p>

<p>Ok thankyou for clearing that up sueinphilly, just wanted to make sure that isn't illegal or anything. </p>

<p>I apologize to everyone if it seems I know little about the FA and College Application process, and I am asking questions which seem elementary in nature, but I just want to make sure that I do this all right when the time comes. No one in my family knows how to even approach college so this is all very new, both the process and everything surrounding it. </p>

<p>From the information that has been gathered by all of you it seems now that I have to use my stepfather's information for FAFSA, but my grandparents can still pay. I just have to hope for the best with this and I am still going to make an appointment with the FA office at a college that I am going to visit this summer to make sure this situation is completely clear to both me and my family.</p>

<p>Golly! Don't apologize! We are all here trying to help out those just starting the process because we had to wade through all of the complicated and confusing information, rules and regulations ourselves. You are to be congratulated for getting an early start and making your plans now - it shows you are destined for success!</p>

<p>Agree that Alamemom is approaching the situation well. One question that come up is what do you think about your stepfather's ability to pay for college? Are he and your mother in good financial shape, or are they struggling? Does he have a decent paying job? Would his EFC be something that your grandparents would be able and willing to cover? Have you discussed college costs with your grandparents? Since they are the ones who have been raising you, their input is important too. Even if they are not going to show up on the financial statements, they may be an important source of funds for college.</p>

<p>There are some schools that have substantial merit awards for a wide variety of kids. They may not be the ones on many lists you see, but if it comes down to it, you may want to go where you can get the merit money. Also, there are your state and local school choices as well. You need to find out what your situation exactly is n terms of available funds and what is expected of your family before you start your process. It is a big problem when parents do not choose to pay for kids' education when the process expects them to do so, since they are figured into the equation anyways.</p>

<p>we're parents. that makes us genetically predisposed to want to help you with your problems and questions. and the more you appreciate it, the more we enjoy it!</p>

<p><a href="http://ifap.ed.gov/eannouncements/attachments/0809EFCFormulaGuide.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://ifap.ed.gov/eannouncements/attachments/0809EFCFormulaGuide.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>this is the EFC guide for this past year</p>

<p>between that and this FinAid</a> | Calculators | Expected Family Contribution (EFC) and Financial Aid
you can get a good idea of what your EFC will be (assuming you know your mom and step dads info).</p>

<p>The way it works is that your stepfather and mother's info will be needed for FAFSA which will come up with your eligibility for Pell grant, subsidized loans and possibly state monies. Most private colleges also insist on a PROFILE statement as well which will delve even deeper into your financial picture. What schools are you thinking about? Are you looking at private or state schools?</p>

<p>So,, Nikki, it a kid is not raised by their parent and has a guardian legally appointed, the FAFSA still wants the parent info?? Interesting, I would have thought that would have been a case for independence</p>

<p>I would have thought so too, since one of the vaguer definitions for independent student status is a legal separation from a parent. If someone is named a legal guardian, I would have thought that would fit the specs, but according to that link that Sue put up, it clearly is not the case. Even foster parents are not the legal guardians. Another area where it makes no sense in FAFSA. How much more of a removal of parental responsibility can you get than a child put in foster or legal situations?</p>

<p>I think the schools have leverage as to what they can do after the fafsa is filled in with the parent/step parent info. I'm sure Nikki will correct me if I'm wrong. I think they can declare the student independent, but the student can't do that on their own when they submit the fafsa (at least that's how I interpret things)</p>

<p>sueinphilly is correct. The independent status for FAFSA does not apply here. Likely the school will not declare the student independent either. I have PM'd the student as I have assisted in a similar situation before.
Remember, FAFSA has its own rules....has nothing to do with foster/legal/IRS other situations.
(I never said it made sense :) it's just the way it is.)</p>

<p>As a reasonably well informed volunteer college application counselor in the inner city, I can tell you that the OP situation is QUITE common in such contexts--and perhaps in others. Here are some of my basic points on this sort of situation. </p>

<p>1) For FAFSA, you will always always always need info from at least one BIOLIGICAL parent. The very rare exceptions are if one or both parents are incarcerated, if there has been NO contact for 2-3 years or more, or if one or both parents are mentally incapacitated,maybe a few other exceptions but not many--determined by the FA office of the particular college. So for a start, grandparents, foster parents, legal guardians, (I think adoptive parents are about the only exception) are "off the hook." IN THIS OR ANY NONSTANDARD situation, you, college applicant, will probably need to document, document, document your particular situation (don't be like the family of the student I advised, mom died years ago way out of state, no chance of getting death cert. in time, dad just died in April, aunt raising student could not find her last copy of the notarized document from deceased mom appointing her as legal guardian, $22,000 of financial aid down the drain since he could not verify and document his particular status). You may be asked to document parent status, any money that IS received by whoever is supporting you, and so forth. Documents come from Social Security if you get $$ from them, tax forms, etc (most of that you should get in Jan. 2009 to verify 2008). Guidance counselors, social workers, case workers, or clergy can testify to your family situation (some official, usually on organization stationery and sometimes it needs to be notarized). It may sound annoying but you CAN do this--it is worth tens of thousands of dollars of your college education.</p>

<p>2) If you are applying to PROFILE schools (PROFILE is the more in-depth finan. aid app. of the College Board), they WILL want stepparent info (this is presuming, as your post says, that your mom is legally married now--if she is not, she is "single" and I think you could "slide" on the issue of responsib. of your stepfather). In essence it seems to me that PROFILE is looking for "more pockets" from which to get support for college costs. And this is appropriate--those who have the wherewithal to pay, should, while those with NO resources should get the support they need (IMHO). Basically with all this finan. aid stuff, you HAVE to fill out the forms, get them the info they ask for, and let the finan. chips fall where they may!</p>

<p>3) A suggested timeline (some of this paperwork and documentation you don't need to worry about yet). TIME WILL BE OF THE ESSENCE--THEY ARE HANDING OUT COLLEGE ACCEPTANCES AND MONEY TO PEOPLE, SO YOU WANT TO BE AT THE FRONT OF THE LINE!</p>

<p>Summer until school--do online research and find colleges you like, look for MERIT aid, find out SAT levels and see where you would be in the top 25% of the applicants (greater likelihood of getting merit aid), get a decent list that includes a cheaper school THAT YOU LIKE (this is your financial safety) and that you can probably be admitted to. Practice your vocab. on freerice.com. Start working on some of the finan. aid documentation you may need (as detailed above). As other posters have suggested, meet with a finan. aid person or TWO from diff. colleges in your area, to get advice on your situation. Talk to 2--some have less experience than others.</p>

<p>September--October. Take the SAT/ACT again unless your scores were really stellar, or TAKE it the first time! DO the October test, so you know ASAP what "'level" of school you should focus on. CHECK ALL DEADLINES for apps. for the schools on your list, and start applying. ASK for teacher recommendations right away in Sept (when you sign up for SAT --12 Sept. or so could be the deadline for Oct. SAT)--at least alert your 2-3 teachers that you want them to write recommendations. Keep practicing your vocab. on freerice.com, until you are done with SAT/ACT--or college!</p>

<p>October--November. Take SAT--ACT again if you are not satisfied with your scores. But GET THOSE COLLEGE APPLICATIONS cranked out! Check the websites of your 4--9 colleges (or whatever) to be SURE you are doing all the application paperwork. Check in on the finan. aid documentation that you are trying to assemble. CHECK, if you are applying to PROFILE schools, when their deadline is--some schools have much earlier deadlines for PROFILE (or for EA/ED, but I would not recommend that in general when you are going to need lots of finan. aid, because you will probably need to get offeres from several schools to compare aid offers/packages).</p>

<p>December--PLEASE finish all your college applications! If you have applied to EA or rolling admission schools, you might even have one acceptance in the bag! And oh yes, GET DECENT GRADES this fall, and always--the higher your GPA, the greater chance of getting better merit financial aid. </p>

<p>January--now, take a deep breath, and dive into your financial aid application process. Much of it depends on doing your taxes first, AND on the grown-ups doing their taxes, so BE SURE they and you GET your W-2 and get your taxes done RIGHT AWAY! DO the FAFSA and Profile HOPEFULLY by 15 February. IF your family does not do taxes, and you did not have a job in 2008 and do not do taxes, you don't even have to wait for that--FAFSA is not available until 1 January (that's why you do your college application process first) but you can do it any time after that. </p>

<p>February--IF for some reason you have not finished college applications yet, DROP them for a week, FINISH your FAFSA (lots of schools have a 15 February PRIORITY deadline--think of that as proving to the school that you are responsible enough to be given the full amt. of $$ they could choose to give you), and then go back to those college applications. </p>

<p>March--now or soon, college will be accepting you. IF they accept you, THEN they will start to put together your finan. aid offer/package. THEN they will probably discover the quirks in your family situation, and they will send you a letter asking for VERIFICATION--the documents I have mentioned above, and who knows what all else (the fed. gov. requires certain info, and then each college may have its own forms, etc. including "non-filer" form if you or family do not do taxes). THEY OFTEN NEED THESE FORMS IN TEN DAYS, AND CANNNOT PUT TOGETHER YOUR FINAN. AID COMPLETE UNTIL YOU SEND THEM THE FORMS. THAT IS WHY YOU WORKED ON IT SUMMER 2008, AND CHASED IT DOWN IN THE FALL-WINTER,TO BE READY WHEN THEY ASK FOR IT) (And always keep copies of everything you send them, your letters and their forms that you have filled out).</p>

<p>And (this should have been in December) start accumulating the $200--600 or so that you WILL need to send in May 1, to RESERVE your place and housing at the college of your choice. Don't be the person who loses their spot at their first choice college because they spent their Christmas money on the Valentine Ball, and had no money for their deposit which IS almost always due, 1 May.</p>

<p>April--you should have ALL your acceptances in, and all your financial aid packages as well, so you should get a chance to compare--this place offers more this, this place more that, this place more loans, this place more $$ but it will cost me more to get there, and so forth. REMEMBER WHEN YOU ARE DECIDING, THAT THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF GREAT COLLEGES OUT THERE--AND THAT YOU CAN ALWAYS TRANSFER. It's an easier mistake to fix, than to be in debt for decades because you never got around to meeting finan. aid deadlines, or never bothered to get the paperwork in place. AND now you can send in a deposit BY MAY FIRSTnto a wonderful college, wait for the next round of paperwork (make an appointment for a doctor physical now, and get documentation of your health insurance so you don;t have to pay for the college ins. if you don't need it). And think that in 5 months you will be moving into a college dorm, and a whole new life adventure!</p>

<p>I hope this is helpful. PLEASE doublecheck deadlines, paperwork, and don't ignore or lose letters that you get! And TALK to the college staff--it is their job and joy, or should be, to get worthy and invested students to attend their college.</p>

<p>One more thing--as others have stated, no one is OBLIGATED to pay for a college education, (like the food in the grocery story) except the person getting the education, or the person buying the food. Anyone who knows you and is invested in your life, CAN pay for any or all of your education. Two quick notes on that: if grandparents or rich uncles are paying for things, they should pay the college DIRECTLY--that makes just a paid bill, and does not have a tax impact on either student or "uncle." (That's my understanding--someone correct me if I am wrong). HOWEVER, if your grandparents or rich uncle is paying for some portion of your college education, and you are applying for financial aid, in the NEXT year, on the FAFSA Question 40 (Worksheet B--trust me, you will get to know this better come January--there are 3 "worksheets" on the FAFSA that look for other sometime sources of income), where it asks "Any other money paid to the student for on the student's behalf" (something like that), you would need to report that they paid $1,000 for your board plan, or whatever. Not a big deal, just something to think about. BTW if a student is being raised by someone else, taken in by relatives or something, I have seen colleges ask for the value of that "housing provided" from the relatives--this happens in the verification process, the college FA people need the paperwork verification of it, signed.</p>

<p>Radimom, will you be my life coach? Seriously, you rock.</p>

<p>To OP: the fact that you are first generation college student may open up aid opportunities for you. I know a kid who got a full ride to our state flagship because he would be the first person in his college to go to college. I am assuming you will be a HS senior this year as your name ends in '09, if so Radimom's advice reads like a blueprint for you.</p>

<p>Also, does anyone know what you would do in a case where the OP's mom and stepfa would not comply with disclosing financial info? Who could compel them to do so? Are there any exemptions for cases where you fear the other party like there are in cases for child support, etc?</p>

<p>Not saying this is true in OP's case, they may be nothing more than inconvenienced by the request, it has just gotten me wondering about different scenarios. I have an ex but fortunately DD will only be applying at FAFSA not PROFILE schools so I won't have to deal with his drama.</p>

<p>Thanks, Mama, I LOVE this stuff! Heck, there are sooo many unconquerable obstacles to a college education, paperwork and timing (which is a lot of the college process) ARE conquerable and should NOT be an obstacle!! In my NOT so humble opinion!</p>

<p>OP--you and everyone should benefit from the fact that our federal government, and other parties, IS dedicated, to some degree, to social mobility,that is, UPWARD mobility. That is why I do this--it IS an incredible challenge for a first generation student, but it CAN be done, and it IS worth it. That is why the timeline is so important--because it MAY take more time. Think that it is worth $20--50,000 of college costs, and it is worth it. </p>

<p>MamaDrama's question: as others have said, no one is "compelled" to pay for the college education, except for the consumer (like my grocery store analogy, maybe the parent SHOULD buy that banana for her kid, but if she is spending all her money on bleach or fingernail polish, no one can MAKE her give her kid the food he/she needs--no one can MAKE anyone pay for a college education). When parents and stepparents absolutely will not comply, usually my last ditch effort (after talking to parents, trying to convince them that this information and effort could be worth tens of thousands of dollars of finan. aid) is to have a student fill out the FAFSA with zeros in it for parent information. Unfortunately you at LEAST need SSN and date of birth of one parent, in order to fill out the FAFSA and get it to jet thru the computer, so if parents won't even give that, the student basically cannot apply for federal aid and is going to have to pay for it themselves, cash (usually community college). Once in awhile non-astute parents will take out thousands in loans, rather than provide financial aid information. First generation families often have not had financial experience or guidance of any particular sort. </p>

<p>When the FAFSA does not have parent info and signatures, it raises a flag with the FA staff at the college where the student is accepted. Then you start talking in person. When the personal info is there but the finan. info is all zeros, again flags are raised and again student starts talking with the finan. aid people. They can ask for VERIFICATION of financial stuff (SS income, lottery winnings, whatever) and personal situation verification--some official, clergy, guid. counselor, social worker, lawyer?, stating in writing, on letterhead, maybe notarized, that such and such is the student's situation, they have been living in the train station for the past year (I am not making this up), and hope that the college will use its discretion. It can get very unpleasant in cases where there are child support arguments, and students get caught in the middle, but it is not a college's responsib. to fix broken personal situations. Students do well to GET GOOD GRADES and BE DESIRABLE so that colleges are willing to consider special circumstances.</p>

<p>I really believe that part of the college process is going a bit far away and being adventurous, but in a complex case like MDrama is referring to, there can be advantages in being able to BE in the financial aid office in person, and trying to sort some of the quirks or complexities out. That can be harder to do if one is 6 hours from one's intended college--but not impossible.</p>

<p>Wow radimom, that timeline is extremely helpful and I will definitely use some of those tips/advice you have given. Also concerning the disclosure of my step-dad's and mother's financial information, I have talked to my mother and she said that they would have no problem in releasing their financial information for the FAFSA and PROFILE. Now this was after I told her that they were not obligated to pay for my college. So I'm going to take it one step at a time, and see if they will help pay when the time comes. My grandparents have already agreed to help finance some of my college education, though it will not be much due to limited finances, better than nothing though.</p>

<p>Also would being a first generation college student help me in scholarships for merit aid, or is it considered toward need-based aid?</p>

<p>With willing people and cooperation, may all the forces be with you! I am glad to help!! Here's the quick deal on first generation issues: the fed. gov. has a particular finan. aid grant called a Pell grant, which is specifically aimed at first generation students whose families have few resources. The max one can get of that grant (no need to repay, GRANT--this will all get easier in the months ahead) is around $4700. It is also Need-based aid, as it is dependent on your need. It does not depend on any student's grade point average, which would be Merit aid (anything that depends on your being smart or having good grades). </p>

<p>There may be other first generation student types of aid locally, or offered by various institutions, and some Ivy and next-level institutions TALK, at least, about focusing on first generation students, but my opinion is that it will be more efficient and effective for you to focus on your grades, SATs, and so forth, rather than putting too much effort into the first gen. thing. Someone correct me on that if I am wrong. For instance, some state public institutions will give automatic scholarships for certain GPAs or SAT scores--that's achievable for some, hopefully for you. Concentrate on finding realistic places that you love, on your grades, on your essays, on those deadlines. Be at the front of the line!</p>

<p>The income information you use is the one who claimed you as their dependent. If your mom claimed you under her tax papers, that you are her dependent, then you will be using her tax income stuff to file for financial aid. </p>

<p>Your step-father and your mother may have filed jointly because your mother is a stay at home mom. If again, they claimed you as a dependent, then you will be using their tax paper and providing FAFSA with their information on your financial aid. If however, your grandparents are the ones who filed y.ou as their dependent, you will be using theirs.</p>

<p>I'm pretty sure of this because I have a similar situation and I asked my counselors. This is exactly what they told me</p>

<p>Allisonn, I think your counselor may be misinformed. Check out this information from Nikkiil's post: Who</a> is considered a parent? it is from the official FAFSA site. Who claims you as an dependent really doesn't matter for FAFSA purposes - FAFSA has its own rules.</p>

<p>I have heard of the Pell Grant before but my step-dad I know makes to much most likely for me to be eligible of getting one, that is because I read somewhere that the average family income for a Pell Grant recipient is like 20k.</p>

<p>I might be eligible for some merit aid, but looking at the stats of some of the people on CC who apply to schools, get accepted but don't get merit aid is astounding. I'm currently ranked #1 in my high school class, UW GPA is 4.0, SAT of 1900, have taken extra classes at local CC and I have also have begun to be recruited by a few schools for 2 sports, soccer and track. Would those stats be good enough for even some merit aid?</p>