Need HELP!

College Majors Music Major
1

We moved to CA in 2013 so I’m not too familiar with the UC or CSU campuses. Our daughter is graduating high school this summer and has applied to few of the UC and CSU campuses. She is passionate about music and has been in school choir/chorus since her elementary school. She wants to major in music (voice).

So far, she has received acceptance from UC Davis, UC Santa Cruz, SJSU and Sonoma State. UCSB has wait listed her. Santa Clara University also wait listed her. But I don’t think we can afford to send her to SCU if she gets accepted due to costs. She had her last audition at Sonoma couple of weeks ago. The campus was beautiful and music center facilities are brand new and very impressive. The dorms are much better and newer than any of the other campuses we’ve seen so far. I should call them as apartment suites, to be honest.

We are yet to visit SJSU or UCD, UCSC (no auditions required to get in). We will be attending open house at UCD on 4/11 and UCSC on 4/12. I’m reading the online information about their music majors in their websites; but the information is very limited.

My daughter is fixed on SSU as she has been there and seen it herself and could see her there. But I asked her to keep her mind open as she is yet to see the other campuses.

Of the 4, SJSU would be least expensive, as she can stay at home and go there (just 10-12 miles commute one way) - thus saving significant money on boarding (which would be approx $50k in 4 years (it makes a lot of sense to me to save that kind of money). But I’m not sure how good is their music program. UCs are going to cost twice as much as CSUs - I see a general opinion that UCs are better than CSUs and have lower acceptance rate. The problem is - information available online is too generic and high level, it’s not possible to figure out which one is better when it comes to specific major - such as Music.

A side note - due to higher income bracket (despite of higher cost of living in bay area), she didn’t get any financial aid; but just loan offers. If UCSB accepts her (which we will know only after May 1st), I am guessing it would be best to join there compared to UCSC or UC Davis. If she wants to go to CSU, I prefer SJSU from the financial point of view, but Sonoma seems to have a better music department.

So we’re at cross-roads. If anyone knows which one is the best for a music major, please let me know, I would really appreciate all your inputs and suggestions. We would like to make a decision by April 15 and choose one of the fours and wait to see if UCSB accepts her after May 1st.

Thank you.

2

Sonoma is MUCH better than SJSU for a music major (SJSU’s strength is computer science); in addition, research shows that freshmen have better grades, a better experience, and are more involved if they live on campus, so that you should really consider letting her dorm unless it’s totally unaffordable.
UCs are overall stronger academically (stronger academic preparation and test scores from entering students, professors who focus on research). UCSC is more undergraduate-driven than most UCs though. UCSB is higher-ranked among UCs than UCSC, but it’s similar to UCD. However, UCD’s strength tends to be the sciences rather than music, not sure how it compares to UCSB. UCSC is the “artsier” of the UCs, so it may be a good fit for your daughter - has she visited, done an overnight? You might want to post this in the music forum.

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Since you seem to have the budget - i’d encourage you to send your daughter away to school. That whole freshman dorm experience is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Davis, Sonoma and Santa Cruz are less than 2 hours from home - i think the perfect distance - close enough for a day-trip but, far enough away to prevent parental drop ins.

The facilities at Davis are also outstanding and the school is excellent. I haven’t seen the music facilities at UCSC so, i can’t comment other than to say, it is a really pretty campus - small for a UC and definitely has an artsy feel.

Davis has more than 4X the students Sonoma state does - that is good and bad. When you tour UCD next week, she’ll feel excited for the variety or overwhelmed by the scale of campus. Listen closely and help guide her to a campus where she will feel comfortable. Sonoma is about $5k per year cheaper than a UC - nothing to sneeze at.

If she falls in love with UCD or UCSC, that’s great. Otherwise, I’d lean toward SSU.

Good luck

4

How I wish you had found this forum sooner!

Congrats on the acceptance to Davis! Excellent school! I believe the music programs at the UCs are smaller and may be limited in resources and performance opportunities since the UCs are known for the academic rigor and research of their other programs like sciences, engineering, etc. I know one singer who transferred away from UCSB for a larger voice program at a private university. The music programs at the CSUs are bigger - LBSU and CSUF have excellent music programs but I don’t know about SJSU or SSU specifically.

What is your DD’s long term objective? Does she want to perform or teach? What genre of music she is interested in can affect which program is right for her - contemporary music, musical theatre or classical. Does she want a BM or a BA?

I would suggest that your daughter talk to her choir director or private voice teacher about those NorCal programs. It will take some digging to find the answers. Search the internet for past performances, alumni, and teachers of these programs. Ask lots of questions at the schools about performance opportunities, lessons and requirements.

Also search this forum - there are good threads that discuss all aspects of being the parent of a music major.

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Thank you all for the insights - much appreciated. @GottaSingOpera - She LOVES contemporary music and is interested in voice performance major. She has been into school chorus/choir for 9+ years and is taking private classical lessons for over a year. She has been learning Indian classical singing for 10+ years. So voice performance as a major of choice. As far as BA or BM; she is open for both. BM, I understand, is deep dive into music, while BA would allow her to select a minor which could be any other non-music academic interest. She is excellent in French and is part of French Honor Society. So I assume if she does BA Music, she would choose French as a Minor.

As a typical parent, we worry about career/profession/job opportunities, etc. but never pushed her what everybody else does like science, math, engineering or technology. We want her to pursue what she loves and where her heart is.

She applied for Berkeley College of Music, Boston which is her dream school, and also auditioned in January (did well), but she didn’t get accepted. It’s a most selective school.

UCSB audition also went well; but she is wait listed. We toured the facility and we liked it as well. The faculties seem to be very knowledgeable and do many productions during the year.

We will visit UCSC and UCD this weekend and find out.

To summarize:

CSU: SSU & SJSU accepted her and offered BM Music
UC: UCSC and UCD accepted her and offered BA Music. Freshmen need to audition for BM. Music.

We need to help her make up her mind between UC Davis (BA Music + French Minor) and SSU (BM Music).

Thank you all again. Appreciate the feedback.

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@MYOS1634‌ Yes. SSU campus is beautiful; quiet and is a preferred setting for my daughter and they said Music department is not impacted - so no scrambling for classes. Their music department facilities are brand new and I was blown away by their concert halls. UCSC is a beautiful campus too and we will know more about their music program this weekend when we visit them. But I checked the online information and they seem to have music faculties who come from prestigious schools like Manhattan School of Music, etc. On Yelp reviews, everyone mentioned about the rampant weed culture there, which is a big concern for us. I know it exists in every college in some form or shape; but UCSC seems to have a reputation on this. We will also know more about UC davis this weekend. Thanks.

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@NCalRent‌ Thank you. Yes. I guess we will lean towards SSU if it’s CSU or UC Davis if it’s UC. We will figure this out early next week after visiting the UCs this weekend. Thank you .

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Can she do a BA music with French minor at ssu?

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@MYOS1634‌ I’m sure there is a French minor available at SSU; not sure if she can do BA Music and French minor. Their music department website lists the following majors :
Bachelor of Music - Applied Music (Performance)
Bachelor of Music - Jazz Studies
Bachelor of Music - Music Education
Bachelor of Arts - Liberal ArtsStudies

Currently she’s accepted in the first one (which we’re absolutely fine). I was looking as French as a minor if she gets into UC. A double major at SSU is also a possibility (music and french majors); but we don’t want her to get stressed out in doing that.

10

I guess it’d be a BM then, but I’m not sure how feasible a French minor would be with with the BM (vs. BA)? In any case, congratulations, she has excellent choices. :slight_smile:

11

Languages are often part of music study, certainly voice, so perhaps a few courses in French (or German, Italian) will satisfy her.

Sonoma State has a competitive, excellent summer program called “California Summer Music” http://www.csmusic.org/index.php Not sure how much that relates to the SSU year-round program. I have to say the photographs of the campus on the CSM site are gorgeous.

Good luck!

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@compmom‌ Yes - SSU campus, particularly Music Department facilities are great. Though it’s been two weeks since we visited, we are yet to get over with its gorgeousness. Thank you.

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Update: 4/11/2015

We visited UC Davis today (Decision Day)! Wow… the campus was so beautiful; with thousands of students and parents visiting today - we went to the Pavilion - the UCD Band welcomed us with their beats! What an experience! However we returned home this evening - very disappointed.

  1. I wish they stretch this Decision Day event over at least 2 days! A campus of this size and incoming students with so many questions in their mind, I don't think it's possible for anyone to cover all the grounds and make informed decisions in such a compressed schedule. All presentations/welcome receptions were scheduled between 1pm-3pm in different blocks/buildings and I don't quite understand how anyone possibly could visit more than one session in such a vast campus within that time slot. Our primary goal was to visit the Music Department; get all our questions answered and also visit other academic interests (for a possible double major or minor).
  2. We toured the housing facility and met the Financial Aid folks to get our questions answered.
  3. We went to the music department building (Music Building). The 'Reception/Performance' was scheduled between 1-3pm for Performance Majors. I couldn't believe how unappealing that whole place was! There were fewer staff (less than 5). We assembled well ahead of time. A small group of 5 students came in with their instruments. The chair of the music department briefly introduced himself and welcomed the parents/students. That's pretty much it is. No presentation about Music Department, No details provided on the majors, he then handed over the stage to the students who introduced themselves and played two beautiful pieces. Ironically, of those 5, 4 of them are doing some other majors (academic) with music as minor. Just one student was a music major. No voice performance. Nobody spoke anything about it - NONE.
  4. After the reception, we met with one of the senior staff on the aisle and asked our questions. We were basically handed over a bunch of brochures/flyers (which we've already gathered from their website). Whatever he'd mentioned to us was not impressive or encouraging. It was very obvious to us that music department has probably the lowest focus in that campus. -No B.M. offered, only Bachelor of Arts -All students majoring in Music will study the same subjects/units for the first two years (irrespective of their tracks like performance, education, etc.). Voice majors can be part of the Chorus (about 100+ students) or 'Early Music Voice' group (about 25 students). Everyone has to study the general subjects. -When we were asked if our daughter is committed to UC Davis, we couldn't resist; but to tell him about our dilemma . He asked about the other choices and we mentioned to him. In his own words: "I shouldn't be telling this, but Sonoma has a better music program/department; brand new facilities". "UCSC - yeah they seem to have some bad reputation; but they're changing; I would say they're transitioning". "UCSB has a comprehensive, better music program". We couldn't believe what we heard. There was no attempt from anyone to convince our daughter to commit to UC Davis.

We then rushed to the World Language sessions around 2:30; spend the rest of the hour with the folks at the ‘French’ booth/table and got our questions answered. If we have to choose UCD, the choice is to do a BA Music Major with a French as a minor or a 2nd major. However performance opportunities are very minimal (once or twice a quarter). No solo performance opportunities to voice majors as well.

When we drove this morning to UCD, I discussed with our daughter and explained all that I heard from you in this thread - so she was hoping to be pleasantly surprised by UC Davis Music Department. A beautiful start in the campus and excitement in the first few hours; quickly faded away as soon as we visited the music department. She was visibly upset and disappointed.

Yes. USCB was awesome. The entire Music department faculties were available that day; assembled; did an excellent presentation to parents/students about the department, productions, their credentials; achievements, etc. prior to the auditions. They answered all the questions. I sincerely hoped our daughter would get accepted there - let’s see, we will know after May 1st if she moves from wait list status to accepted status.

Sonoma offers BM and they’re just simply better with great facilities and friendly staff.

We will be visiting UCSC on Monday afternoon, as they have scheduled an Open House session for accepted students. I hope they do better than UC Davis.

As of now, our daughter mentally is settling in to get into Sonoma. However she is worried about the ‘reputation/branding’ compared to UC. She said she is not going to update her senior FB page about her college choice as every other student in her grade posted about their college choices ranging from Ivy leagues to private colleges to some of the best UCs (UCLA, UCB, etc.). She thinks they would mock at her for choosing a CSU, less known SSU. I will have to do some counselling (besides what I did on our way back while driving) to keep her in good spirits.

I have a question and I hope you can help me on this: Can she file the SIR for both SSU and UCD (or UCSC) for now and wait until May 1st week to see if she gets accepted into UCSB. If she gets accepted at UCSB, can she cancel her acceptance into SSU and UCD/UCSC? Is this a bad idea?

Thank you all again. It’s one of its kind experience as parents for us!

I will update after our Monday visit to UCSC.

14

UCD is very well-known for its science offerings, but much less so for its arts/music programs. The university itself is great, as are the campus and the students, but it does sound like a very poor fit.
I have a feeling UCSC will be a better fit, but while the vibe is quite different from UCD, I don’t know specifically what the Voice Performance major is like so I’ll eagerly wait for your update post (and other CC readers too, I’m sure)!
You can deposit now at two universities for housing, but you will lose your deposit when you choose on May first. (You MUST deposit at at least one school by May First). Students who get off wait lists in May can tell the university where they deposited that they got off the WL elsewhere and cancel their enrollment - since WL’ed students only get off their WLs in May-June, this happens often enough it’s got a name, “summer melt”.

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Check this very impressive video of a student’s story who began with no classical singing background at SSU and what she has become in her senior year : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91wxatdIDOo

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You won’t believe where we are as of today. After reading tons of online information, we were torn between these choices. It was extremely difficult to make up our mind on which school she has go to. We visited UCSC. I loved the ocean view. We couldn’t meet anyone in the Music department (poor timing on our part) and my wife didn’t like that campus and thought there are too many trees and meadows! :slight_smile: (she was a bit scared). My daughter went to NYC this week along with her school chorus to perform at Carnegie Hall - guess what the conductor was from SJSU. After my daughter’s group performance SJSU’s Coraliers performed as well and my daughter had a great time with them and Dr. Benson (SJSU).

With 2 days left, we had a very lengthy discussion. I kept the emotions and personal sentiments aside and looked at the reality.

  1. Sonoma's Music department is awesome and facilities are gorgeous. But outside the campus, there is really nothing. One has to commute 6-10 miles to buy groceries and my daughter doesn't drive. She will pretty much be tied down to the campus. From the reputation/credential standpoint, Sonoma is at the bottom of the list of 4 choices (87% acceptance rate).
  2. UCSC - we didn't get to see the music department; read all online information which look great. However my daughter didn't / couldn't see herself in that campus (she's probably too stressed as the clock keeps ticking).
  3. SJSU - great school, but she has to commute as we live 20 minutes away. She also liked the folks from there. But she wants to experience 'campus life'.
  4. Then comes UCD. As we say in the IT industry - "One won't lose his/her job because they buy from IBM" - One won't get mocked up because they go to UCD. The Decision Day experience was bad; but I think everybody else was too busy and we probably didn't understand the agenda well. They only planned to do a little performance; they didn't plan for any meetings /sessions / Q&A with students/parents so none of the faculties were present. I still believe they could have handled it better as the day was meant for those who got accepted and is not a general 'open house' day.

So, keeping the emotions aside, we went ahead and committed to UCDavis. But deep in our hearts, there is a little pain and dilemma which is still lingering around. Now she is totally buried in preparing for the AP exams which start next week and it’s hard to get her attention or invite her for another discussion. I wish we had a mentor who could advise us on this better.

Had it been some other major focus like engineering, computers, etc. I would have been in a better position to advise my daughter and it would not have been this difficult to choose one from the four. My wife and I are NOT musicians - and have no idea. With 48 hours left, I hope our minds don’t spin again.

Thanks everyone!

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@suninwest- I just sent you a message. Check your box!

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Hello all, Here I’m back again, seeking advice/help. Well, here is what has happened after my 4/29/2015 post. After committing to UCD, we thought we’re done with the college process. Wrong. We sensed that our daughter is unhappy and when we checked, her heart was at SJSU, which she thought gave her the best experience among all the campuses. We discussed again in length, and finally (for the 2nd time) decided that she should go to SJSU. She cancelled her SIR with UCD and accepted SJSU. After two semesters/1 year, she is so glad, she did that. Dr. Benson at SJSU is an awesome man. Our daughter has been having a fantastic time with her vocal performance program at SJSU for the past 1 year. There were several concert opportunities to participate and she has been so busy. With her AP credits from high school, she has completed 52 units (of the 120 required for graduation) at the end of 1st year. She is going to Paris for a summer program in French language (which is her minor) and looks like she will be completing it pretty soon. She loves the classes; loves all the professors and the overall experience. The only thing she dislikes is the commute. But she realized how much she saves by not staying in a dorm that she could use for her Masters. She also has taken up a part-time job at the campus and is making a couple of hundreds every month that she is saving for her higher studies. These are some of the great things happened to her.

Now she needs help again. Her vocal tutor and few others have told her that ‘A musician don’t bring food for the family’, ‘it’s difficult to build a career as a vocal major and sustain/survive’, etc .etc. She is scared now - as much as she loves what she does in music - she is now losing confidence that it will help make the ends meet after graduation. Since she has progressed well in her classes so far and based on the advise she received from her tutors/mentors, she is now considering taking up a second major. Question is - what should she sign up for?

She wants to take up a major that would help her get a job after college and she can continue to pursue her music. This is her plan. She doesn’t want to do anything with computers/technology/chemistry.

Here is the list of degrees offered at SJSU. http://info.sjsu.edu/web-dbgen/catalog/degrees/all-degrees.html

She doesn’t want to take something that will be too demanding and she would lose focus on her BM major. One of the common / popular option is to take up BM Music Education (which most voice majors do). She is not too keen in that. She did very well in Economics, Biology in high school. She hated Chemistry. She is not fond of Math. She is showing interest in Business majors. Given this background, I’m considering the following:

Under Business Majors, accounting / finance concentrations require some prior experience in high school. I’m looking at MIS as a good option as it’s not fully technology (computer engineering or computer science), but it is related to technology and business information systems. She asked about ‘International Business’, which I’m not sure. Alternatively she can choose something from the Biology as she was good at it in high school.

Seeking your suggestions on this.

Thanks in advance.

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When you say “pursue her music”, what sort of music career is she hoping to pursue?

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@ musicamusica - She is majoring in vocal performance. She wants to be a performing musician and possibly start a small studio once she earns enough to teach aspiring students on vocal performance. She is also learning piano for a while.