<p>It is so hard for me to know what to say. I don't want to sound pretentious, but I don't want to sound like I'm straight out of Deliverance! Any advice on just what to say to sound interested but not obsessed? Also, I'm having trouble finding my admissions counselor at other schools like Columbia and Emerson. Do you guys think I should go ahead and take the SAT and the IIs then? My counselor won't be very happy...</p>
<p>I would recommend that you take both the ACT and SAT and yes, the SAT II's. You will need them for the Ivies and top 25 LACs. You may have to travel a bit to take the SAT IIs but it will be worth it.</p>
<p>I would recommend that you don't ask us, but ask the admissions counselors at the schools in which you are interested. (Most schools these days will accept either, but "most" may not be where you want to go.)</p>
<p>Katie:</p>
<p>There are about 60 or so colleges that do require SAT-IIs; they happen to be the most selective. There are as well some colleges that do not require board scores, such as Mt. Holyoke. You can look them up on <a href="http://www.fairtest.org%5B/url%5D">http://www.fairtest.org</a>.
I think most colleges will accept either the ACT or the SAT (Princeton is the only one I know of which puts restrictions on the use of the ACT; it will accept it only if you are applying to other colleges that require the ACT). You have plenty of time to take the SAT-IIs, if you do want to apply to some of the colleges that require them. Some time next spring, after you have taken the appropriate course and/or self-studied, will be best.</p>
<p>Yes, Katie don't take our advice, take theirs (the admission folks). When I said you needed a 33 ACT, I was talking about being in the hunt for Harvard (depending on your exact background). As someone else said, as long as you meet the admissions requirements for curriculum, make top grades, and demonstrate a passion for learning beyond what you are able to get at your small school (this could be college classes, or distance learning, or an essay contest, or self-studying APs, a number of things), it is hard to say what SAT/ACT score you will "need" for a particular school.
Why do you say your counselor won't be very happy about you taking the SAT and SAT IIs?
As for Columbia and Emerson - some schools assign admissions people in different ways - they may not do it by geography, or may not listthem that way on the website - try a general E-mail. I personally know a young man from a neighboring county who was admitted to Columbia this year, the high school is much larger than yours, but the county is rural, and I'm sure he is the first grad of that school to go to Columbia! Good luck!</p>
<p>I asked my counselor about taking the SAT last year, and she pretty much told me not to, and that she didn't understand why I'd want to. I haven't said anything to her about my college aspirations, because I didn't want to look like a fool if I was ridiculously underqualified. Thanks for all the help, with everything. Have a great weekend!</p>
<p>Your guidance counselor sounds like a waste of your mom's tax dollars...I'd be questioning her (the GC - not your mom!) continued employment, but that's for another day. Please, please do not allow her to hold you down....find those admissions reps from the schools you like and listen to what they tell you. Perhaps you and your mom could speak to a couple together, since you say your mom is unfamiliar with the process.</p>
<p>Katie:</p>
<p>Maybe your GC thought that since you were taking the ACT, there was no need to take the SAT. And indeed, she may be right. It DOES cost money to take the SAT, and if you do not have to, perhaps you should not. But consider taking SAT-IIs. They will help adcoms intepret your GPA. If your school is not well known, they may have trouble understand what your grades mean relative to other applicants's. SATs, SAT-IIs and ACT scores enable them to compare you with the rest of the pool, to put your grades in perspective.</p>
<p>I would also suggest that you let your GC (and your mom) know that you will be applying to your state uni, but that you want to give yourself a chance to attend a school that will stretch you in terms of both academics and overall experience.</p>
<p>
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I asked my counselor about taking the SAT last year, and she pretty much told me not to, and that she didn't understand why I'd want to.
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This is a touchy situation and you have to be diplomatic here. </p>
<p>Your counselor may just be uninformed about the requirements of schools beyond the ones you mentioned in your original post that you're being steered to. </p>
<p>On the other hand you might be facing an incipient attitude of "what? Our local colleges aren't good enough for you?" and you have to be cautious about not stirring this up. Its by no means limited to rural schools, BTW. If you go to a large (3000+ students) HS in Los Angeles, for example, at many of them the counselors went to Cal-state Whatever, the teachers went there or maybe a UC school, and quite often you'll run into that same resistance if you begin mentioning LACs or east-coast privates.</p>
<p>So tread carefully; the goal is to enlist the counselor as an ally who takes pride in your achievements and feels she played a role in getting you there.</p>
<p>So I echo the advice you've received. Find out from the admission office and college websites what tests are required for the schools you're considering, and be sure to take them. I should also mention that scores on these tests can be improved by using one of the review books, the same way they'll help with the SAT or ACT.</p>
<p>It is very cool to see all the parents jumping in with great advice and support. I'm reminded of the saying "it takes a village..."</p>
<p>Katie, if you do decide to apply to some of the more selective colleges, you may find that the Subject Tests (formerly known as SAT II's) are a big piece of the puzzle. This site <a href="http://www.subject-tests.com%5B/url%5D">www.subject-tests.com</a> is a good way to get an overview of what caliber of colleges require which subject tests (and which will accept ACT in lieu of subject tests). I bring it up now only because you may want to select classes now that position you to do well on subject tests at the end of 11th grade. Where I live, the GC's help students with this kind of strategizing, but I'm taking a wild guess that you're not getting that where you are. </p>
<p>Best of luck. I think you're going to do very well no matter where you go to college.</p>
<p>Katie - you have gotten lots of wonderful advice here, and I know you will receive more. As you can "feel" (even in cyberspace), we all want to help and support you in your endeavors. And, you are already finding out that there are admissions counselors who want to do the same.</p>
<p>I think you may be very appropriate for the "prestige" schools, as you call them. But if you have been on cc for awhile, especially on the Parents Forum, you know that we also call them the "lottery" schools. Because it is very difficult, and sometimes seems like a crapshoot, to get into any of them.</p>
<p>Others have suggested schools such as Grinnell, Wash U, Rhodes.</p>
<p>My suggestion is that you do, right now, just as you have outlined: start down the path of finding your dream school, preparing for the tests you will need, work with your GC ( and that part may take some real diplomacy on your part) and get ready to apply.</p>
<p>BUT don't pre-judge what that dream school may be. Once you have your application process all lined up, and your financial aid prospects estimated, build your college list "from the bottom up." This is the mantra of the Parents Forum.</p>
<p>Building from the bottom up means outlining for yourself (and for us, so we can best help) what you are looking for in a college (apart from its selectivity): size, locale (urban, rural, suburban, part of the country), atmosphere (big-time athletics, artsy, preppy,...), strong programs (lib arts, sciences, business/engineering...), etc. THEN, we can help you build a list of schools which meets your various criteria for a dream school. That list will include 2-3 schools in each level of selectivity - "sure bet", match, reach. We can help you fine-tune the list as your SAT/ACT scores roll in.</p>
<p>There is a dream school for you - in fact, there's more than one. Your job, with help here and from adcoms, is to find several; apply to them all; and evaluate and select the right one when your acceptances and financial aid packages are in front of you.</p>
<p>Don't focus on the prestige ( you don't have to let go of it completely), but focus on the "fit." Which colleges fit you best? That's what we want to help you find out.</p>
<p>I look forward to being there in April to see the end result.</p>
<p>PS Katie, just checking. You are a rising junior? Or a rising senior? Thanks.</p>
<p>If you are just entering your junior year, be sure to take the PSAT if possible. If it is not given at any schools near you, you can contact the National Merit Scholarship program and ask them the procedures to arrange for your SAT to be counted in lieu of PSAT. If you score in a range that qualifies you for "commended" status, your college prospects will be enhanced -- plus you will start getting a LOT of mail from colleges.</p>
<p>When signing up for taking exams, make sure to look up the procedures for fee waivers. You may qualify.</p>
<p>Thanks. I'm a rising junior.</p>
<p>Katie, Im sure your background and accomplishments will be appealing to many colleges. You sound like a perfect contender for financial aid both need based and merit aid at any one of many, many top colleges. In the next year and half what you can best do to prepare yourself is to keep up your academic success and extracurricular involvement. I think others have given you excellent advice for your test strategy.</p>
<p>As far as making your shortlist, at this point its okay to have a LONG list of several different types of schools: big/small, rural/suburban/urban, liberal/less so, Greek presence/none, sports focus/not so much etc. Youve got plenty of time and the internet is a wonderful resource. If youre unable to visit because of finances, dont despair. After acceptances, many top colleges will help finance an overnight trip.</p>
<p>I sure know what you mean about being confused by the whole process. Im a college graduate and my son attended a private high school with a fairly good counseling system and an excellent track record and I was STILL overwhelmed by the complexity of selective admissions. So, join the club :) and relax, youve got a lot of time and youve come to the right place for advice. </p>
<p>Your mom sounds like a great ally. Im sure I can empathize none of us parents wants our kids to end up at a faraway college, but all of us want them to fulfill their potential and be happy, which sometimes means geographic distance. Its kind of bittersweet and youre sure to get mixed messages.</p>
<p>Your relationship with your GC is sensitive. You will need this person to help you with recommendations and the logistics of applying, so you want to maintain a good relationship; however, its not unusual for a curious, aggressive student to know more than his/her GC. Sometimes GCs just dont understand the process; sometimes they are covertly (or even openly) hostile to kids who shoot for elite schools. Basically, you should aim high and dont let anyone discourage you.</p>
<p>One other question: How good are you at your sports? Being recruited for baseball or basketball is a shortcut to success at many selective colleges.</p>
<p>Id like to suggest that you contact this organization, <a href="http://www.questbridge.org/%5B/url%5D">http://www.questbridge.org/</a>, which helps match up low income high achieving students with selective colleges. Amherst, Bowdoin, Grinnell, Rice, Trinity, Williams, Wellesley all use Questbridges to identify potential low income applicants.</p>
<p>
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It is so hard for me to know what to say. I don't want to sound pretentious, but I don't want to sound like I'm straight out of Deliverance!
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I love your sense of humor!</p>
<p>You go girl!</p>
<p>Katie, did you take the ACT as a soph or the PLAN? The PLAN test in ACT world is commonly taken in the tenth, and I'm just wondering because the scoring is substantially different on the two tests.</p>
<p>The advice given so far is fantastic. I want you to know that I ,too, think MHC, Bryn Mawr, Smith would be great destinations as would Barnard. </p>
<p>To my fellow parents, give yourselves a round of applause. Excellent job.</p>
<p>Katie, I would like you to consider a small school in Missouri for a geographical and academic safety. Westminster College is a "hidden gem" according to Jay Matthews and I guess "me". Only about 800 kids, great campus , new science facilities. Good looking kids, moderate politics. Really a very fine small school in a pretty setting. Is it Wash U ? No. Will it blow the doors off the local Baptist school? You betcha.</p>
<p>Regarding the GC--
Two further thoughts:</p>
<p>(1) Get some prep books for whichever tests you need to take. There is a thread on cc of "Xiggi's Method" you should read. Scoring well on the tests is a huge help in your quest and you can self-study for them.</p>
<p>(2) Re GC: I have found that people in "helping" professions like teaching, nursing, counseling are VERY vulnerable to being asked for "help." They want to help innately. </p>
<p>So when you get the resistance you say very politely and sincerely, "Mrs X, I am SO glad I have you, because this is a hard process, and I really need your help here. I know this is an unusual request, and I know it may seem whacky, and I know I am putting you to some trouble, but it is a big dream for me, and I just need your help so much to make it happen." </p>
<p>I bet you she'll come around if you phrase your requests like this and soon it will turn into her dream too. You both will be jumping up and down over a fat envelope, mark my words.</p>
<p>Your mom is also a big key here. Having her on your side will also be a good way to get your GC to fall into step.</p>
<p>Katie, all through life, any time one challenges the status quo, one will get negativity, resistance. When you do something nobody else in your community has done, many people will have the knee-jerk "no" reaction that you have been getting. Many will be defensive, uncertain, unhelpful. Surely, you will win some supporters too.</p>
<p>Consider the experience of forging your path to a quality education excellent practice for so many other experiences yet to come in your life. </p>
<p>It is people like you who can innovate and dream who get all the important jobs done. It may be advocating for a creek cleanup or a homeless shelter. It may be claiming a medical benefit you are entitled to despite miles of red tape. It may be running for the school board. Who knows?</p>
<p>Armed with a great education, people like you will be executing some of the big changes that our world so desperately needs, where others toss up their hands and give up. </p>
<p>You are really ahead of the game if you already know that 50 people saying "no" is not a reason to stop.</p>
<p>Correct me if I'm wrong, but...You can sign up for the SAT without going through your GC. If you omit your high school code from the registration materials, you'll still get your scores but your high school won't. </p>
<p>Is there any possibility that you and your GC misunderstood each other and she or he just meant you shouldn't take it as a sophomore? (That's actually good advice. )</p>
<p>PSAT--which you should DEFINITELY take--lots of merit $ is based on it--is a different story. I think you do have to go through your school. But if you high school doesn't offer it, I'd contact the College Board folks directly and ask if it's possible to take it anyway. (It's in October.)</p>
<p>Just one caveat..private schools will ask about your dad's income if he's alive. If he won't help, many colleges can be quite understanding, so I don't wish to discourage you. Just letting you know that you will have to demonstrate that he won't pay..Another thing to get some help on directly from the folks in admissions offices.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>About Westminster- I have tons of brouchures in my expander-file thingy from it, and know some people who have gone there.</p>
<p>About PLAN- I only got a 24 on it (27 on the real deal).</p>
<p>About Sports- Sheesh. Let's just say I'm not going to be recruited any time soon...</p>
<p>About my dad and Fin. Aid- My mom works at a law office and has consulted one of the lawyers there about it, so we ought to be able to tackle that, although I will bring it up with the admissions counselors.</p>
<p>Thanks again guys, you are so helpful! Happy Monday!</p>