Need some advice on colleges.

College Majors Music Major
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Hi everyone, I am a high school student from Singapore and I need some advice on choosing colleges.

I have been learning the piano for six years, and I have been learning about composition for around two years. However, the composition lesson I have in high school is more about exposure rather than systematic training.
I want to study composition in universities and I do not want to study music alone. I do not see myself as a full time composer in the future. So I looked into liberal arts colleges and many double degree programs.
I plan to take a composition-related major and a more practical major like CS or economics.

Oberlin used to be my dream school, given their double degree program and a good music conservatory. But later I heard that composition department in Oberlin is… highly concentrated on “serious concert music.” I am able to appreciate modern classical music, but prefer the late-romantic and neoclassical style of music. In other words, maybe I am not much into the Avant-gard and highly experimental music. maybe it is somewhere between the highly experimental music and highly commercial music.

So i am looking for a university or college providing rigorous, systematic and progressive training on composition as well as good education for mainstream courses like CS, psychology, economics etc.

As for my compositional skills, they have the potential to be above average US undergraduate applicants, according to my teacher, who is a music teacher in Utah University. I am currently preparing for the portfolio.

My standardized exams are not exceptionally good. SAT 1500, school percentile around 90%, but my school is not that good in Singapore (ranked 6th among 12 schools). So I don’t think I have a chance for schools like Yale (and other Ivy schools) Julliard (and similar conservatories)

I did some research and came up with a list of possible schools. Below is what I heard from other people on the Internet, please correct me if I am wrong. I understand that some schools are better in music performance rather than composition. I am not sure which schools are like that.

Oberlin: double degree program, the education provided by the LAC is not bad (Though I am not into biology and chemistry). The conservatory, some say the training is rigorous and systematic, some say it is quite normal (a friend from YST school of music, National University of Singapore), some say it is more about serious atonal music. One person says that the campus is not very safe.

USC: good in film scoring, the climate of the school? Some say it’s not very conducive for study

NYU: good in film scoring

Bard College: double degree program,

U Washington, st Louis,

U Michgan: a good university plus a generally good music school

U Indiana: good music school

U Rochester: very good music school, and quite liberal system

Peabody of JHU: good?

Berklee: more about Jazz and commercial music? Although I do not fully understand what that implies. Also, since it is a stand along music school, I am not sure if I will apply for it

thank all of you in advance!

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On a second thought, I feel that my musical taste may change in the future as well, maybe after I have enough Debussy and Grieg. (:

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Oberlin has had some changes in recent years, with Stephen Hartke leading the composition department. The campus is certainly safe- who would say otherwise?

You do not have to go to a school that has a conservatory or school of music. You do not need a BM. You can go to any college or university that has a music department, which would be for a BA in music. In fact, you don’t even have to major in music. You can major in CS or whatever, take lessons, and have performances as an extracurricular. Or you can double major, or major/minor.

Or, you can choose a school with a conservatory/music school and, as you say, do a double degree in 5 years- or just a BM with some other courses on the side.

In other words, there are many ways to go.

If you really want a double degree, there are many to choose from, Oberlin, Lawrence, Bard, Hartt, Ithaca, Eastman/Rochester, Peabody.Johns Hopkins and others. But you do not need to do a double degree as a composer unless you really want to.

It sounds like you have many academic interests. You might want to read the Double Degree Dilemma essay that is posted near the top of this music forum. It describes different ways to do music.

Many composition programs at the grad level consist of work that is “new music” aka contemporary classical, very individualized, sometimes experimental. Most high schoolers are still writing neo-Romantic works. If you want to be around that aesthetic, there are certain schools that would be a better fit.

In the meantime, grab a copy of Alex Ross’ book “The Rest is Noise” about 20th and 21st century composition:)

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Lawrence?

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Why exactly are you interested in the studying in the US? Have you looked at programs in Australia and the UK? Is money going to be an issue and you’ll need assistance? What are you looking for in a college besides traditional classical music which will lead to film scoring, and economics/computer science?

On your list, USC does not offer film scoring to undergrads. When you say Rochester - do you actually mean a double degree with Eastman? University of Washington at St. Louis may very well have a decent music department, but it’s not one generally talked about. The truth is that most American colleges will have a decent music department where you can learn the trade of traditional composition which is the backbone for film scoring. As @compmom has already said, you don’t even need to major in music at all to take the classes and get the education in theory, counterpoint, orchestration. Film scoring is generally taught as an expensive post graduate pursuit - for certificates - at schools like USC, UCLA and NYU. Or for undergrads at more trade oriented programs such as at Berklee, or the TAC program at San Francisco Conservatory. NYU is one of the rare universities which does offer an undergrad track. You might also want to look into the PAT program at University of Michigan which could combine in one degree your interests in computer programming, scoring, and composition.

As for Oberlin not being safe - I can’t imagine what you’ve heard. Regarding not liking biology or chemistry - you may want to reconsider a traditional American undergrad experience - where students, except at conservatories, are required to take a wide range of subjects - unlike a European university where one focuses solely on one area of study.

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“Why exactly are you interested in the studying in the US?”

I wondered the same question. You are likely to find equally strong schools elsewhere for less money, and getting a degree from a school in the US does not get you a visa to stay in the US.

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One other thing: I would say that composition is not something that can be taught. It may be true that anyone who takes some theory and plays the piano can write a piece, but there is no training that can actually create a talent for writing music. When you write that so far your school has offered exposure but not training, does that mean you have not yet written much music, or are you doing it on your own? Have you taken any theory?

I was a little confused by your post. Are you saying that you write neo-Romantic music now and want to avoid experimental and/or commercial music? How familiar are you with “new music” aka contemporary classical? Who are some of your favorite composers?

I reread your post, and realized again that you do not want to be a full-time composer. I believe you are looking at the wrong schools. I feel, from what you have told us, that you should most likely avoid schools that have a conservatory or school of music, unless you want to study piano. Composition is part of an academic music major (BA) and a BA program can lead to grad study if you so choose.

I am not writing to limit you but to help you understand you have freedom of choice here. Most any school with a good music department (as opposed to a conservatory) will have composition. This would apply to countless liberal arts colleges.

You can take 1/4 of your classes in music as a major or take fewer, targeted music classes as electives, and study composition with a teacher. This leaves room for many other subjects of study, without a need for the 5 year degree. You can consider double major or major/minor as well, depending on your other interests.

If, on the other hand, you want full immersion in music, with 3/4 of your classes in music, then certainly apply to BM programs at university music schools or conservatories. Or look into a double degree.

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Oberlin is EXTREMELY safe. Even walking around at 3am there’s nothing to worry about. I’m not sure who said it wasn’t safe, but I think they are confusing it with somewhere else.

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I wonder about the person who said Oberlin wasn’t safe, I suspect they either are confusing it with something else or has the perception somehow that everything in the US is this wild west where you aren’t safe:). In other words, whatever Oberlin is musically (and from my view, it is a pretty standard conservatory, can’t talk about composition but in classical music it is pretty typical of a school in the top tiers). As far as the degree goes, you could get a BA in composition at a college music department and get another bachelor’s in something else (double major) or get a BM in composition and a bachelor’s in something else, the double major may be easier than the double degree, given the requirements of BM programs.

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For a long time, Oberlin’s composition department was considered Eurocentric and more focused on “new music” than many other conservatories. Hartke is now head of composition so it is worthwhile checking into what the prevailing aesthetic is, if there is one. Often for undergrad the best scenario for composition is a diverse aesthetic resulting in equally diverse student works. I will say that Oberlin grads do very well with getting into grad schools and the few I know went directly to PhD program.

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Oberlin may still be a good option. Depending on the environment you seek (liberal arts vs. preeminent university) you should consider the Blair School of Music at Vanderbilt. Top music school, top academics, ease of double academic pursuit not seen many other schools, not even its peers like Northwestern and Peabody. If you want more details and advice from a current composition major who has several other academic interests that I pursue at a high level there, please PM me for more information.

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It depends on the aesthetic environment a composition applicant wants.

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I don’t know if you are still reading this, but forgot to mention that if you are doing a BA at a school that has a BM program, you may lose out in terms of opportunities because they go to the BM students. This is not always true. So check it out. But in general, if you are not going to go to a conservatory or music school for a BM, then maybe focus on colleges and universities with good music departments but NO conservatory or school of music :slight_smile:

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I’d also recommend looking into a double major music composition + cs or economics or management at St Olaf. Show interest, apply for scholarships by December first to show interest, and it could be a low match to relative safety .

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http://wp.stolaf.edu/musicadm/degree-programs-and-majors/

If you read the site, you can see that YOS1634 suggestion might be a good one, Just want to mention that students go in as BA students and then if they audition or do a portfolio in first year, then try to get into the more selective BM program. There are also double degrees and majors. The BA is 1/3 music and the BM is 2/3 music. And of course you can major in something else entirely and do lessons, but performance might be geared to music students so check that out. This could be a case where the presence of BM students makes it harder for the BA folks, so approach with caution in that regard. The better musicians, in theory, would be in the BM program since entrance is more competitive.

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Thank you all for the replies. I am still reading this. It’s just that I am preparing my portfolio and study for the coming exams. I will look into those websites later. Thank you all again.