Many people are saying that “figure it out” isn’t clear here (@saillakeerie just said it the most succinctly, which is why this text was selected )
OP said,
If she thinks that the idea of her being able to retire is a joke when discussing college costs, it doesn’t sound as though there is an abundance of funds that has been set aside already for a financially secure retirement. Unless OP has an additional 30 or so years in the workforce after her kids leave college she does not need to be spending an extra $220k for an MIT education over a Vanderbilt one. I suspect that “figuring it out” meant trying to figure out how to pay the MIT bills from a home equity loan, PLUS loans, loans or gifts from friends/family, working extra jobs, taking loans from any retirement accounts, etc.
I wouldn’t. I think that concept is vastly overrated. We live in a new world where anyone can teach themselves anything, often for free. My son does a very high level of fluids and electromechanical engineering. Discrete wasn’t part of his ME curriculum in either his BS or MS. He needed it to do some of the EE functions in his job. He taught himself. Even in the most backwater schools, there will be professors that will engage, enthusiastically and willingly, with a motivated, bright student. We aren’t talking about backwater schools though.
At the end of the day, this isn’t a debate about whether MIT is a good school or not. It’s a thread to try to decide if the MIT experience is worth $220,000 MORE than the Vanderbilt experience, for a family with two more children to follow. The OP fears that they will shortchange their student if they don’t leverage to pay for MIT. In the context of everything we think we know, it seems like that would be a mistake, possibly a very big one.
Just a reminder that the FAFSA formula will change for 2023-24 (becomes available Oct 1, 2022), and eliminate the multiple sibling ‘discount’. So that may hurt the ability of some families to pay for college (for example, may not still qualify for Pell).
It’s expected that many CSS Profile schools (a small proportion of 4 year schools) won’t make this change in their own proprietary formulas, but obviously we don’t know that yet.
Requiring NPCs was a good development, unfortunately the NPCs are often inaccurate for families with divorced parents, or those who own real estate beyond a primary home, or those who own a business…a not insignificant number of families fall into at least one of those categories, but not sure about OP’s.
MIT is a fantastic school, no doubt about it. But so is Vanderbilt. While everyone is entitled to their opinions, I’m bothered by arguments that try to elevate certain schools, like MIT, to the point that families who can’t afford to choose them and have very good affordable options make terrible financial decisions so as not to risk limiting their child’s future. Or so the cheerleaders lead them to believe. But the truth is, a very bright student, like the OP’s student, will not be limited by attending Vandy over MIT. Period. I don’t care how many exclusive opportunities are offered at MIT. Vandy may have different opportunities, but they are excellent as well. There is more than one path to extraordinary success, if that’s what the OP’s student wants. There is no single school that will guarantee a certain outcome to the exclusion of all other paths. Life just doesn’t work that way.
When we were in a similar position, I did not agonize about the choice and no one could have convinced me to spend $300k on Harvard. The reason? I believed in my kid more than I believed in any school. OP, believe in your student.
I completely agree with most of what you said, and we brought our kids up with the same exact attitude and personal example.
One question though… Why did your kid apply to Harvard if there was no way you were going to pay? Or do you mean you would have paid 300K for Harvard if the alternative was less palatable than the one you ultimately chose?
If you ask most people with kids under or about college age about retiring, I think most of them will laugh and say I got x kids to get through college. Its so far off that they aren’t currently thinking about actually retiring. Does that mean they have zero retirement savings? Not necessarily. Could they have zero retirement savings? Certainly. Which is why I said we don’t have enough info to know what it means to say “figure it out.” Can we fill in a bunch of possibilities, absolutely. Just read through the thread. I just don’t think we have enough info to do that. And given the OP was asked a significant number of questions (and is a busy parent of 4 kids), I don’t think its surprising that there is a lack of details to each and every question.
Yep, I don’t know what “figuring it out” means. There were context clues, however, that led to what I suspected (suspicions). If needing to pay the $220k for MIT was going to severely constrain the college choices for the younger siblings because of finances, then it’s unlikely that the parent already has a sufficient retirement balance that will allow her to remain on-track for whatever retirement date she would like without making further contributions. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. Do I think I’m wrong? No.
I’m enjoying the conversation and have been reading along.
My thoughts are, and I’m sure I’m in the minority, but I’ve said this before about another school. There is a very shortlist of schools that, as a parent, would make my “figure it out” list and MIT is one of those colleges.
This is the crux of the decision the OP faces. Society, mainly through our insistence on ranking things that cannot be universally ranked, has built this notion that the higher the rank, the bigger the payout of the golden ticket will be. There is no objective evidence to support that notion for most degrees. There’s no argument that the experiences will be different between schools. There is also no argument whether or not MIT is a great institution, but that one will cost radically more. It’s interesting that when alumni like @DadTwoGirls, @HPuck35, and the alum in my family are confronted with these questions, they typically side with the less expensive option if MIT will place a financial burden on the family. It’s parents of current and former students that want affirmation that the money they spent was worth it. We all want that.
When DS was applying and we were discussing chances and finances, I told him, let’s apply broadly (aiming at some unlikely reaches like Caltech and MIT, as well as some unlikely merits like Vandy), and then see what happens and decide. “But if you get into MIT”, I also told him, “you are going to MIT”. His younger brother knows that would be the case for him as well.
I think it’s important to have these conversations upfront so everyone’s on the same page.
Upthread someone wrote that this thread is about whether or not MIT is worth $220,000 more than Vanderbilt for OP’s daughter.
Based on OP’s daughter’s interests & career goals, MIT is probably worth the difference of $220,000 over 4 years IF that amount is affordable to OP’s family.
It doesn’t seem that the cost is affordable, given that the OP indicated that her two younger boys could be in “trouble.” Is the family prepared to send them to the “best” possible school as well? Regardless of cost?
It’s not that at all. I do find rankings specious, but it isn’t about chasing prestige per se. It’s about justifying that it’s worth $210,000 more than a program with equivalent job placement, albeit with different opportunities, for a family with two more children to follow, where it may impact their retirement.
I just had this exact discussion with another family wanting to send their child to my son’s alma mater. It was going to clearly cause both the child and the family financial distress. I love that program, and my son has thrived, landing at a startup with lots of buzz, a great salary and a patent. I recommended they choose the cheaper option though, because any incremental benefit, if there would be any, would be eclipsed by servicing debt.
There is no evidence that the OP’s student will be radically better off, given the apparent pain this would cause them. It’s quite possible even that she’d get better opportunities at Vandy. We just don’t know. Yet, because it’s MIT (or insert Brand X here), some think that she’d be far better off. There is just no evidence for that. It’s based on faith, and that alone.
This is peak irony, considering that much of this thread has devolved into parents who made the decision to save money trying to convince themselves and others that their DS or DD will really and truly End Up In The Same Place In Life Anyways™, in the process refusing to admit that they might have made a :gasp: tradeoff.
No, there are reams of evidence you have chosen to ignore, discount, or downplay. See above regarding rationalizations.
I saw Good Will Hunting, too. Great flick. Not very realistic.
I have no reason to rationalize. My DD truly did end up in the same place and arguably better off. Why do you refuse to believe that is not true for many? That is baffling. You seem to fall in the camp that believes only certain schools can provide certain outcomes. Especially when talking about undergrad, that simply isn’t true. But believe whatever you like.
At the grad level, I believe you pointed to Supreme Court Justices. Ok, so you may not have a shot at being Supreme Court Justice because you don’t go to YLS or HLS. Then aim to become President of the US with the opportunity to appoint Supreme Court Justices.
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