I don’t doubt it. And 64 Georgian students chose Harvard and over 600 Georgian students chose T10s. That’s why I used terms such as “most” because most don’t make that choice, and “most” aren’t wired that way. I’d also suggest that we don’t know their family finances. Were their families all full-pay?
80-90% yields speak for themselves despite the anecdotes and exceptions. And most of that 10-20% chose other T10s. It’s an uncommon choice is the point. Again, I would never argue it’s a good or a bad choice. Just that it’s the one most of these kids make.
For all of those professions, there’s no doubt you are correct. We aren’t talking those professions though. We are talking engineering. As a profession it’s pretty egalitarian out of the gate and then extremely meritocratic after. At the highest levels of all sorts of engineering fields, MANY undergraduate institutions are represented.
That’s because we’ve instituted fear into “most” rendering them incapable of a rational decision.
My kid is a top student in an extremely rigorous program, etc. etc. etc. I am deeply proud of her, as one of her key metrics is merit aid. I think there are a whole host of students these days realizing that education is similar at many institutions and that it’s simply not worth it to go into massive debt to get a brand name.
Don’t get me wrong: she’s very much looking at the “top schools”. But with the recurring nonsense of things like Varsity Blues, the pandemic, a serious war, etc, I think kids are much too smart to fall for the “selectivity” nonsense. A person who is going to be a top student at Vanderbilt is going to be a top student at MIT or elsewhere. Connections and networking are important, but they are FAR from the most important part of many student’s calculus on where to go, especially where money is an issue.
For those who get a lot of FA, it makes merit aid less important. However, if you don’t qualify for much or any FA and you’re not superwealthy, it IS a big deal.
ETA: I saw your subsequent post after I posted mine. I think we are talking about the same thing, for students qualifying for little or no FA. If one got full FA, I would definitely suggest my D go to MIT IF it were a good fit for her. The reasons are the ones that you and others have outlined.
However, my simple point, which I take it you agree with, is that it is much more complicated than saying “MIT E is better than Vandy E, so go to MIT E”.
You said you’d never interviewed someone so I simply pointed out that it happens. We were full pay and many of the others in her cohort were full pay. I could have paid but didn’t see the value in spending $300k over my DD’s full ride options. There are plenty of parents who think like me and don’t even have their kids apply to top schools due to the cost. As someone pointed out above, there’s lots of value in these types of scholarships.
The MIT parent above was making a $100k decision which is a very different calculus than a $300k choice.
I’m a management consultant and we hire lots of engineering majors. There is no pre-consulting major. I wager there are plenty of STEM majors in the Senate and at Goldman, too. Engineering to MBA is a fairly common pathway. People do know that a 17-year-old who wants to major in engineering probably won’t end up with a PhD in engineering, right? Plan Bs matter, too.
So the students and families that drive that 87% yield (with most of the 13% going to other T10s) are irrational? That’s quite the take.
The yield is high when there is self selection involved. If you apply to Harvard to begin with and get in , you are likely to go. Because, after all, it’s Harvard.
Actually - not STEM but UNC KF Business School has a consulting concentration
I agree with the comment from @mynameiswhatever on merit aid. I see this at Alabama. Not saying they are MIT ready but certainly there are kids there that got into GA Tech…or like my son who got into Purdue with merit…I mean, they’re everywhere there - because they pay.
The same at most flagships but especially those that pay - Arizona, U of SC, FSU, etc.
Even my daughter’s friend at Charleston got into Rice, Vandy, and Penn and yet he’s at College of Charleston - so for many families, they take the money.
They’re betting on their kid and not the institution itself - they simply ask for a good education and the rest will work itself out - and my guess is in most cases, it likely does.
Those engineers are cut from a different cloth than most. They enter with the idea that they probably won’t do technical work. Many who do consulting choose engineering because it’s leverageable.
Society, based on the rankings system, has sold them a bill of goods that it is the best road to success. For the careers you mentioned, that’s probably accurate. For technical careers, healthcare, etc. it isn’t. I know many Ivy grads that are equally, or even less successful than garden variety state school grads. People say yes, because they fear saying no.
Not to engage in logrolling, but this is EXACTLY on point.
In my day, I was besotted with the Ivies/top schools. After seeing the BUSINESS that all these organizations are in, and having been a lawyer for many decades myself, involved in hiring from all over the world, I TRULY couldn’t care less if someone has an Ivy credential. I ask them questions in an interview to gauge their knowledge and personality, as I am looking for a longterm hire. It machts nichts to me where they went.
100K is 100K. The fancy watch you buy yourself depreciates by 50% as you walk out of the jewelry store (unless it is one of a handful of makes, models, etc. and few laypeople understand the difference). The snazzy kitchen with high end appliances might return 50% when you try to sell your house- unless the people buying it hate your taste and plan to rip it out. The high end car, the deluxe ski vacation- the designer handbags- again, no shortage of things to spend money on.
But if someone spends their money on a fancy kitchen they’re a hero- and if they put it into their kid’s education, they’re a $%^&.
I’m happy with formica countertops, thank you. I don’t judge how my neighbors spend their money (yes, lots of over-improved houses with enhancements which will never pay out), and why they feel the need to remind me that my kids could have gone to the local college for free… well, that’s on them.
If it’s MY 100K, and I earned it honestly, paid taxes on it, saved it, and use it for my kid’s education, I don’t need to perpetually be reminded what a jerk I am. Yes, I can calculate NPV, ROI, all those lovely acronyms people throw around to bully those who spent top dollar educating their kids. I am too stupid to understand that I could have invested the money instead- but somehow smart enough to earn a salary which makes me full pay? Or I’m a sheep, or intimidated, or somehow a vulnerable loser who entered into a contract she didn’t fully understand (because college is college is college and they’re all the same).
OP- I hope you got many points of view here which help you with your choice. Your kid sounds fantastic!
That’s a false equivalency. The only way to calculate opportunity cost is by figuring out what the difference will be, invested, over the length of the career you are paying for.
I dont understand your anger. Everyone makes different choices. And people are entitled to their opinions. Many thought my DD was foolish for not going to Harvard then thought I was wise beyond my years when she graduated. Who cares? shrug
I’m sure $100k is material to the OP. She wouldn’t have started this thread otherwise. My concern is about Vanderbilt’s offerings in the areas (mainly, AI and robotics in CS) her D is interested in. On the other hand, I don’t know the depth of her interest and whether she will be able to take advantage of the extras MIT can offer. Would those extra be worth $100k? We’re back to the old question. The answer is that it depends. It depends on the family’s finances. And it depends on the student’s ability to take advantage of those extras.
I get where she is coming from. We are nowhere near full pay and get need based, many friends and neighbors will tell us how crazy it is we are paying anything for college. I drive an old Honda Civic while they drive big new trucks, that cost more than what I am paying for sons college. Everyone prioritizes how they want to spend their money.
It also depends on the student themselves. Is this school, or that school, the right fit for them? To me, fit is perhaps the most important assuming finances are possible (see next paragraph).
All of the things you mention are key, but if we are talking about full-pay parents who don’t qualify for meaningful FA, it seems to me that merit aid (if available) AND fit are the main criteria.
Yes, that’s what I meant by the student’s ability to take advantage of the extras MIT can offer. Sure there’s social fit, and perhaps other incidental factors, but I don’t consider them to be important enough to sway a decision one way or the other.
