Need to shorten list of schools - Input appreciated

Parents Forum
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<p>Would your D consider UMiami? East, but South:).</p>

<p>Great marine science, safe bet for your D, and it, as blossom puts it, "Shows well". What's not to like about a place with alligators swimming in their school reservoir?</p>

<p>It is hard when you show a kid Harvard and it's gorgeous and sits in Cambridge and then what measures up if you like schools in cities. Columbia;). If you can use the match schools to sort through urban vs. rural, size, political leanings, arty vs. pre-professional, then her heart won't get set on the super-reaches.</p>

42

<p>I suggest New England LAC's plus Dartmouth and Brown for vacation.</p>

<p>We started in Hanover, went to Middlebury, then Williams, then Amherst, the Brown and finally, Conn College and Yale if you wish. (Wesleyan is right there too, but oh no, not another possibility!)</p>

<p>You might peek in at Smith and Mount Holyoke, just in case. Many young women start off by saying "no way" to women's colleges, but some, llike my daughter, change their minds.</p>

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<p>Smoda, My son is a recent Williams graduate. I would concur that many of the elements on your daughter’s wish list could be fulfilled at Williams: Academics of course, sciences, medical school track record, music (including both band and jazz performance opportunities), dance (new performing arts center), skiing, the marine program, writing focus. No journalism per se, but a newspaper that always needs volunteers and some very fine writers on the English faculty. Double, even triple, majoring is common.</p>

<p>The real determining factor is going to be how she reacts to the campus environment. Williamstown is a pristine mountain village in a breathtakingly beautiful natural setting. It is insular, but remote. Basically, you either love it or hate it.</p>

<p>Amherst is like Williams’ Siamese twin, so many similarities that the differences are notable only by their exception. For your daughter specifically I would lean toward Williams because of her interest in music and dance, but definitely visit – the physical environment is a key point of differentiation.</p>

<p>The second comment I would make is to spend more time in selecting ONE safety than you spend in visiting top universities. Yale, Harvard, Brown, MIT, Dartmouth are all wonderful schools. Just assume your daughter will love them. Apply but postpone your visit until decision time. </p>

<p>HYM are ridiculously selective and Brown and Dartmouth not far behind. If she gets in she'll have enough time to visit. Unlike small LACs like Williams and Amherst, you don't get any "extra-credit" for having visited prior to applying at large universities. Dartmouth and Brown maybe a visit would be helpful, but HYM, no real need until the acceptance is in hand.</p>

<p>Instead if visiting time is limited concentrate on
1. Safeties.
She only needs one but sometimes there’s a lengthy process of elimination before she finds one that is lovable.
I know the last thing she needs is another suggestions, but I would consider adding Smith to the mix. It offers (I think) just about everything your daughter wants, and is a “bargain” in selectivity because of its all female status.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Remotely located schools
As noted, her reaction will be visceral. If she gets that “get me outta here” feeling then her list will need to be reworked.</p></li>
<li><p>Narrowing in on the mid-range reach-y matches and match-y safeties. These are very different in feeling. Decide first on urban/suburban/rural, sporty, political, etc. Again, all of these are good choices but by reading and focusing she should be able to get the list down to three to four. And in keeping with the spirit of unending options I would add Hamilton.</p></li>
<li><p>Think further about RPI and WPI. This is a completely different direction. Okay to leave on the list for now, but not a priority for visit. More a priority for thinking about what she really wants.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Good luck and let us know how she does.</p>

44

<p>Your daughter sounds kind of like a renaissance woman--my D. was similar in that she had a wide range of interests. She landed at Notre Dame. If your D. wants to stay in New England, I'd keep BC and Holy Cross on the list, but I'd also look at Johns Hopkins and if she's open to traveling just a bit look at U of Chicago and Notre Dame. She might really like the schools, and the midwest zeitgeist is just wonderful. D. is much, much happier than her cohorts who went east.</p>

45

<p>Catching up on acknowledgements - Hope I haven't missed people who had helped.</p>

<p>To Astrophysicsmom - Belated thanks & will apply your input</p>

<p>To Huskem55 - thanks for confirming Connecticut college - comes up repeatedly</p>

<p>To Alumother - UMiami was a brief fantasy until she really addressed distance</p>

<p>To Mythmom- sounds like april may consist of Dartmouth, Middlebury, Williams, Amherst, Brown, Connecticut college, Yale. We had removed Wesleyan already. Had things about it that were not a match. If we need to add Providence back on we can do it on a Saturday.</p>

<p>To Momrath- As you can see, still keeping list at the full end. I hesitate to postpone visits until after acceptance because I believe that part of the acceptances my son got (4 years ago) may have been due to the ability to explain sincerely why he and a school were a match. I also (in my heart) believe that the Ivy's cross compare who is applying to each of them and in an effort to protect their statistics accept those that they feel are going to choose them back. If my theory is right then applying to Harvard might lessen her odds of getting into Dartmouth because Dartmouth might believe she would pick Harvard over them even if in truth she would pick Dartmouth (remember this is theory she does not know where she wants to go). Don't know if that is true but I would rather she apply only to schools she actually intends to attend thus creating the long visitation list. Note: S applied to only 2 Ivy (Upenn and Cornell) and got into both but chose neither.</p>

<p>To Mombot- Thanks for suggesting those midwest schools. My parents are from the midwest and I was born and lived there. I can appreciate how wonderful a region it is. At this time distance is a strong factor, thus excluding the midwest.</p>

46

<p>Smoda, I have to ask...if your daughter didn't like the remote location of the NY state schools, why are you going to Colby, Bates, Bowdoin at all. They are remote...and cold...just like Cornell. Also, check to see if Bates admissions office is even open on Good Friday. Many schools have this as an administrative holiday. Also, just my humble opinion, but the idea that you can see three schools in one afternoon is just not realistic (in my opinion). That is what you are trying to do on Jan 25. We found that universally with both of our kids, if we did two tours in one day, the second school was NOT well liked (kid was tired of hearing "more of the same"...gotta tell you that the info sessions and tours are not all that different...the buildings and locations are, but the tour info and info sessions just don't have much variation). Too many visits in one day will exhaust you and a school that might be terrific will be viewed with tired eyes.</p>

47

<p>To Thumper - What I commented on Cornell was size and distance - VERY large and 6 hours from home, the remote school was Norwich. I have no idea if any of these others will be as rural but they will have to be examined somewhat individually. The right rural could be nice. We spend all our free weekends in Maine and have two properties up there. So Maine has always been a love. Not as familiar w/ NH, Vermont and western Mass but trying to be open minded. Bates is open on Good friday - I have spoken with them, they have 2 tours and 2 info sessions (Colby and Bowdoin are also open that day but Bates will be most convenient for the travels that weekend). If you look again to my list, Jan 25 is Colby and Bowdoin which is only two schools. Our trip will be as follows, Colby from 9 - 12 and Bowdoin from 1 - 4. Hopefully a rare double day will not be an issue especially since Bowdoin (the second that day) has been of interest to Rachel since 8th grade. She even made us drive through that campus the corresponding summer. If need be we can go to it again in the summer or weekend when info sessions are scarce and students absent.</p>

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<p>Have a D at Harvard. Have NOT noticed that Harvard has a male oriented culture.</p>

<p>As for cutting down the original list, I'd cut out RPI and WPI. Your D's interests don't seem to be engineering. I'd keep in MIT because MIT does have neuroscience.</p>

49

<p>To Ellemenope - Thanks for the input on Harvard. We will be checking it out.</p>

<p>As for RPI, WPI and MIT, I think I am getting ready to at least cut WPI. Will first take one more look at there academics. The pro on RPI is the STS (Science and Technology Studies) program. It seems to tie LA studies into Technology and might in my mind have more employability options should the student stop after just a BS. MIT has everything on her list but we do have concerns about academic stress. </p>

<p>Thanks</p>

50

<p>For D, it came down to MIT and Harvard. She ended up picking Harvard because she looked in the course catalog and saw lots of non-science courses that interested her immensely. </p>

<p>After all, college can be more than just a prep for a job...</p>

51

<p>True...... (have to provide 10 characters)</p>

52

<p>
[quote]
I also (in my heart) believe that the Ivy's cross compare who is applying to each of them and in an effort to protect their statistics accept those that they feel are going to choose them back.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Brown, Dartmouth maybe. These two schools have very distinctive personalities and I agree a visit would be helpful. [Actually, it's kind of hard to imagine them on the same list.] Harvard, Yale have incredibly high yields; they don't much care if you visit or not. </p>

<p>Another reason to visit Yale though is that it offers on campus interviews (at least it did several years ago). My son's interview experience there was overwhelmingly positive. He met the admissions director and communicated with the adcom/recent alum who interviewed him throughout the application process. In the end he applied ED to Williams so who knows if it would have helped at Yale.</p>

<p>MIT is a different situation. I don't think you can get a feel for how much tech is too much tech until you visit. I've known students with completely different outlooks on MIT so it's hard to gauge.</p>

<p>I think your itinerary is doable. My main comment would be add some more safeties. The fall-out rate for less selectives is greater than the easy to love super selectives so you have to visit a wider range. This is where the Tufts-syndrome really applies: i.e., they don't accept you because they think you'll never attend. Visiting, interviewing, demonstrating sincere interest in safeties is critical, both for the college and the applicant.</p>

53

<p>I think that for a starting point, you have a good list. </p>

<p>Someone above said there are too many safeties on it, and I am going to respectfully disagree. I think, given the competition these days, it is most important for your daughter to find a couple of safety schools that she loves. She will fall in love with Tufts or Harvard or Brown, for example -- what you want is for her to also fall in love with Fairfield, RPI, Providence or Wheaton. So you do need to visit all those schools. </p>

<p>And, to reiterate what someone else said, focus on schools that want to see demonstrated interest. Visiting those match and safety schools is crucial, because they often don't accept qualified students who don't show interest.</p>

<p>Once she's seen a few schools, she'll be able to give you more feedback on what she likes, which will help shape the list. And while visiting during the summer isn't ideal, you can make a few visits then -- often a good time to make the first visit to a safety or match school.</p>

54

<p>I have a daughter at Harvard. I do not believe that the schools check with one another regarding who applied where. My daughter knows a lot of people (and you'll find more of them on this board) who were admitted to a lot of Ivies. (She was admitted to Harvard and Columbia.) That being said, she was not admitted to Penn ... I do believe that is because she did not apply Early Decision, which she clearly did not want to do. She did, however, write what I thought was one of her best "Why _______" essays for Penn and had her best interview with one of their alumni, neither of which apparently mattered.</p>

<p>It is prudent to build a list from the bottom up, and it looks like you will be able to narrow it down to a good variety of schools. I agree that it is often very difficult to like other schools when you visit reach schools first. My daughter had a heck of a time finding safeties she liked. </p>

<p>Also, I concur that Harvard is not male-oriented. And there are female finals clubs too, FWIW.</p>

55

<p>To Sly_VT-Thanks for input. Since "level of interest" factor has come up a number of times on this site, is there an easy way to look this up? I only see that info on a school Common Data Set, but not every school has it's CDS published. I do hope that like you stated that as the visits begin those early visits will help to sort out the remaining schools.</p>

<p>To Twinmom-Good to get your input on whether the IVY's cross compare. It has been a concern that I have had for a long time. I do think that the safeties may be a difficult search. Glad to hear that your daughter's experience at Harvard has been positive. Will add to notes.</p>

56

<p>If you lookup the college on College</a> Search - SAT Registration - College Admissions - Scholarships and go under the admissions tab, they each list the factors used in admissions. Some schools that indicate "Level of Interest" is at least an important factor. Some don't even list it at all.</p>

<p>Actually, I checked, and Tufts, the namesake of "Tufts Syndrome" - the yield management practice of rejecting students because they think that the student is too good for them and won't go there anyway, doesn't list it as an important factor, so it seems that they are being disingenuous. </p>

<p>For the one's that are honest enough to list it, visiting and interviewing probably helps one's chances.</p>

57

<p>To Momrath - Opps - had not scrolled back far enough. So it sounds like the consensus on the boards is that my theory is no good as it applies to the super selectives. I guess that would be good news. Thanks for the pointer of checking into interviews. I think my original plans may have been to deal with the interviews only once she was looking to apply. MB I need to re-visit that idea. We will look again at how to fit in more. Right now I see how to easily get in a visit to Providence and Connecticut colleges. The question will be will the others be OK to visit during the summer.</p>

58

<p>To ClassicRockerDad - Thanks for the link. I'll take a look at it. Good to have new tools. Up until now I have been going to school sites looking up their CDS and/or statistics.</p>

59

<p>Just went to that link as a test and looked up Bates that had been previously identified. It does indeed indicate "level of interest" and this matches their CDS that indicates "level of interest". College board will certainly be a quicker lookup.</p>

60

<p>Sorry, I know that you are trying to cut down the list, not add to it! But after dropping my son off at Case this fall, the words "dance" and "cognitive science" range a bell. </p>

<p>Other than not being in New England, it might be a good match for your D's interests, and it could give her an easy way to line up a stress-relieving acceptance by January 1. Given her stats, she could quite probably land a sizable merit scholarship, to boot.</p>

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