@simon3, as has been noted, “commitments” in D3 are non-binding. Your question is whether the coach will honor the quid pro quo of “full support” in exchange for the student committing and applying early. Remember in the NESCAC, admissions decisions are made by admissions, not the coach. Full coach support is not a guarantee of admission, and you can track down a few posters on the site who did everything correctly but were disappointed.
Technically, a coach could provide “full support” for six recruits but admissions admits just the first five. That is why it is essential to ask the coach where the student is on the list and how many athletes in a similar situation were admitted and denied.
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Hello all on this thread! Does anyone know what the current AI calculation is for the Ivies and if they are still using it with the SAT subject tests being dropped and class rank becoming less and less common?
I think they still use it but they can calculate it using just GPA and SAT/ACT. Class rank isn’t needed, and if subject tests are missing they just double the SAT/ACT component. That’s what I’ve been told at least. Others might have better info on the formula and other aspects.
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They do double the SAT/ACT component when they have a test score but no subject test score (so counts for 2/3 of the equation), but now all Ivies are test optional (some Cornell schools are test blind) so I don’t think they are able to calculate an AI for recruits who are applying TO. AFAIK all of the Ivies are allowing recruits to apply TO.
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NCAA suspended the requirement for test scores for the current admission class but i don’t think it is permanent. If not, the athletes would have to submit some score.
The schools don’t have to use them for AI calculation.
NCAA will not require test scores thru 2022/23 for DI/II eligibility (at a minimum). Of course some schools might not be TO by then, and students will have to submit scores. But, for the next couple of years TO is an option for many, and on this thread we are talking in the context of NESCAC and Ivies.
Right, but the Ivies are D1, and when the requirement goes back, the students will have to have a score. The schools don’t have to use them for the AI, but they’ll have to take the test.
I believe even the California schools will have to have the tests for NCAA eligibility, even though they won’t be used for admission.
It’s unlikely the NCAA test requirement will ever come back…even though the pandemic will be over, there are still all of the many access and equity issues surrounding testing. That, plus the fact that many schools will stay TO post-pandemic (and some test blind), means it is likely the NCAA will leave a permanent TO path to eligibility. Regardless we are certain tests aren’t required for athletes wrt NCAA eligibility for two more years.
I don’t understand your California comment…is that only in the context if the NCAA starts requiring a test for eligibility again?
The NCAA and athletic recruiting has changed a great deal since your D was recruited.
My daughter wasn’t recruited that long ago, and for her getting an acceptable score wasn’t an issue.
If the NCAA doesn’t care about the qualifications to play, then it can drop the requirement. I don’t care. There will be players at some schools, not Ivies, who don’t have 60 points on the ACT or 800-900 on the SAT. Every year there were students who couldn’t play because they didn’t have the required HS course grades or scores. They started at schools taking remedial courses and couldn’t play until they were at college level. If the NCAA doesn’t care, change the rules.
Yes, my comment was that even though California schools can no longer consider test scores for admission, if the NCAA still requires a minimum score to be eligible, those students would still have to take the test to play. There are currently many TO schools, schools that don’t require high school math to be admitted, etc, but the athletes at those schools have to meet the eligibility requirements for the NCAA.
For my daughter, the test score was the easy part. She scrambled to get an original transcript from each of her 3 high schools. It didn’t matter that at one school she’d only attended for 4 months and probably didn’t even have any courses or grades required for eligibility. The NCAA required an original from all schools, and then couldn’t find them in their mail room, because “Ma’am, we’re really really busy and our mail room is huge.” (Like I cared about their mail room problems.)
I know this is from last year, but I’m going through the NESCAC recruiting process with my daughter who is a 2023 and we’re actually wondering when to specifically ask the coach if she has a fully supported slot? The coach told her on the phone a few weeks ago she is a “top recruit “ but what does that really mean? Her GPA is great, but her test score is right on the line or a point below (31) for most NESCACs. NESCACs can’t do official pre-reads until July 1st- Is it too early to ask the coach now about the supported slot? Does a supported slot also mean it’s more likely the pre-read will go through? Thanks for any info!
Hello! Our son got the call from a NESCAC on July 1 with a lacrosse offer. Based on our experience the coaches in the NESCAC, they abide by the 7/1 date and in our case sent signals that our son was a top recruit, but did not get into the particulars until the 7/1 date. The reason is the pre-read. The pre-read is so important as the NESCACs as they are all follow an academic driven recruiting process. The NESCAC coach for our son asked for all academic materials in June. They need to see all final junior year grades and will not ask for materials before junior year is done. We also went test optional. Rigor of course load and grades were solid but scores were not in range. Coach will guide you here. We visited late June and the coach said to our son, you are one of our top recruits, which was a signal to us that likely he was going to get a supported slot because bottom line he would not get into the school without it. He did mention he had a couple slots and the balance of the team would have to be admissible with their academics. So bottom line if they want you bad enough and you are close to the range, even with no test scores, they could use a slot.
So net net, in our experience a coach will not say you have a supported slot until the pre-read has occurred, so likely not worth asking at this point. Just keep sending film and accolades to keep the interest.
Hope this helps and best of luck!
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This question is meaningful only after the pre-read. While the coach will have a good idea about where your kid will fall, there are always kids that fall into a gray area. Assuming she receives a positive pre read, it is entirely appropriate to ask about the nature of the support (slot or tip or whatever term the coach uses to distinguish between an almost guaranteed admission quota he/she has vs an admissions +), the coach’s track record for kids similar to your D and the estimated odds for your D assuming she applies ED. For my kids, this direct conversation occurred on overnights during a conversation with the head coach. As “top recruits” that passed the pre-read, the odds given to them was over 90%, with the exception of MIT and Caltech where the coaches probably can at best say 50/50.
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Questions to ask sooner rather than later: will you do a pre-read, and when; where am I on your list; do I have your support in admissions; how many of your recruits with comparable academic stats and recruiting support were admitted/deferred/rejected over the past 5 years; do recruits have to try out; do recruits get cut from the team?
If I had a nickel for every time a coach told my kid he was a “top recruit” . . . .
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Thank you! Such a stressful time and so hard to know how wide to continue casting net. Does being a top recruit or one of the coaches top two pics increase the odds of a positive pre-read or is the pre-read completely independent of Coach’s top athletes?
Pre-reads are done by the AO, and there is no guarantee of admissions even with a positive pre read. While no one can be certain of the dynamics and standards applied, assume a positive pre-read means that the recruit has been determined to meet some academic qualification threshold. If the recruit is given a “slot” (around 2 per team other than football), a positive pre-read probably means the recruit is “in”, absent some disaster (academic, social, application) in the first semester. If the recruit is only given a “tip”, then the recruit gets thrown in with all other applicants but with an added plus. Some coaches often take high stat recruits and decide to use only a “tip” for them because they feel the kid will still get in and reserves his/her slots for more marginal recruits in terms of academics (but higher in athletic ability). Bunch of threads on CC that describe very disappointed recruits who were deferred/rejected most likely because they only got a tip vs a slot.
Also note that the coaches usually do pre-reads for a number of kids much greater than their allocated slots and tips. They are anticipating fall off from recruits choosing another school. High stats/high talent kids are desired by every program and will garner multiple offers of support, many from Ivies as well as D3’s.
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It can be helpful at this stage to focus on process questions: what is the admission process for recruits, when do you make decisions on which recruits to invite for visits, when do you decide which recruits to support, (if it feels appropriate:) am I likely to get support, etc.
Timing and process can vary so much by program that I don’t know if I’d apply any general rules without being clear on program-specific answers to all those first.
I’d view pre-read as independent of coach ranking (that is, being higher on the coach’s list probably won’t affect the pre read much).
I would continue casting the net wide and exploring/clarifying options until the very end.
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I’m not sure what other coaches you may also be talking to, but typically to get full coach support, they will want you to apply ED. Ahead of contemplating any offer, you should make sure that you are willing accept the binding agreement to the single school and also that there are no financial surprises. Run the Net Price Calculators if you are counting on any aid and determine that is acceptable. Save the results in case the actual award differs significantly than what you were expecting after acceptance.
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That is a great question as I have heard that there are different types supported slots. This does vary by sport. You get more B slots (% deviation from average admitted student) than C slots (even further deviation). You would think admissions would want to know how a coach wants to use their available slots and what type of slot would be used. That being said, coaches may only send over pre-reads for kids they are thinking of offering slots to, so admissions is giving the green thumbs up, yellow (caution, would need to see XYZ improve) or full stop. I would imagine there is heavy discussion between admissions and Coach on what slots they have available and where the Coach is living his recruits up.
And I think the coaches know based on experience what profile will pass a pre-read so I think they likely would not spend a lot of energy on someone that they know has no shot.
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