Neuroscience Dilemma

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pittsburgh
1

<p>Hi, you might see me posting similar stuff but that just because I want to get more inputs. Besides, I was thinking posting a thread would gather more attention.</p>

<p>Is anyone here doing/has done neuroscience?</p>

<p>I would like to ask what kind of neuroscience (undergraduate) is Pitt more oriented towards? Behavioral/Cognitive/Neurobiology?</p>

<p>It seems to me that Pitt neuroscience is more towards neurobiology and not much psychological/behavioral courses. Meanwhile Ohio State U has more diverse array of courses from different specialization. But everyone I've come across are telling me between Pitt & OSU, Pitts has the upper hand in neuroscience.
And I'm well aware of that, but the nature of my interest might need a different form of evaluation entirely/</p>

<p>I was actually hoping for more Behavioral/Psychological courses. Will I miss out if I choose to go to Pitt over OSU. I've inserted the link to each of the colleges' courses for neuroscience. Having said that, I might be inexperienced in evaluating and judging the program and its courses. Or the courses posted on their web aren't complete, hence it's hard to judge what kind of neuroscience they are offering.</p>

<p>Pitt: [CD[/url</a>]</p>

<p>OSU: [url=<a href="http://neurosciencemajor.osu.edu/courses#Behavioral%5DCourses"&gt;http://neurosciencemajor.osu.edu/courses#Behavioral]Courses&lt;/a> | Neuroscience Major](<a href="http://www.neuroscience.pitt.edu/programs/undergraduate/CD.php%5DCD%5B/url"&gt;http://www.neuroscience.pitt.edu/programs/undergraduate/CD.php)&lt;/p>

<p>My plan for the future is to either go into graduate school of neuroscience or psychology. It seems to me going into a graduate school of neuroscience will not be much a problem as compared to graduate school of psychology. I've done some research over the web, and it seems that the requirement for psychology graduate level is a coursework rich in psychology courses and research (they didn't mention psych research specifically). And I'm not sure if neuroscience undergrad over at Pitt will provide me that kind of coursework (also not that sure with OSU, but they seems to have more psych courses in their neuroscience undergrad program)</p>

<p>it did crossed my mind to maybe double major in Neuroscience & Psychology, but that's gonna take me a lot of time and cost a lot of money for my parents. Not to mention I might have to spend more time doing general education courses for the 2nd major which might be a huge turn off.....</p>

<p>Or I could just do a minor in Psychology but I'm worried that might not be enough for a graduate admission to a psychology program if in the future I decide to sway my path towards psychology</p>

<p>Would be awesome if someone can shine some light on this one. :P</p>

2

<p>There’s not TOO much I can tell you about the neuroscience major, but I can give you some insight into what I do know.</p>

<p>The intro-level classes sound more behavioral to me (Brain & Behavior, Drugs & Behavior) whereas the upper classes sound more biological. My friend is a neuroscience major and this past year was taking classes like “Synaptic Transmissions” which sounded to me like they dive into the biology aspect of things. Remember, you will also be able to take electives in your major. There are a number you can choose from. Scanning through Pitt’s page, I see classes like “Neural Basis of Cognition” and “Neurochemical Basis of Behavior.” Maybe you can choose electives that align with your interests?</p>

<p>Double majoring would be difficult, just because the science majors in general (bio, chem, neuro) tend to be a lot of credits. The psych major isn’t so bad on credits, but fitting that into a neuroscience major could be difficult. (Honestly, I know a few neuro majors and many more psych majors, but none who are both.) Also, what do you mean by “general ed courses for the 2nd major”? Both majors are in the school of A&S, so you only have one set of gen eds that must be completed.</p>

<p>Another side note: I’m pretty sure Pitt doesn’t have a psych minor. I recall looking into that freshman year but you might want to double check.</p>

3

<p>Pitt is oriented towards Neuroscience, which is the field of the the biology of the nervous system, because it is an actual full fledged Department providing its own undergraduate program with a dedicated neuroscience teaching faculty for undergraduate courses. Ohio State has an undergrad program (it is not a department; although there is a grad-level only department in their med school) that their program has not even started yet (the first year will be this coming fall). Not being its own department means that, out of necessity, it has to utilize the faculty and courses of other actual departments, and with its psychology department offering biopsych courses, that is why their program is so heavy it, …because frankly, it has to be. Otherwise these courses would still be available through their psychology department and their program would offer more diverse neuroscience offerings (instead of duplicating). Put simply, for these reasons OSU’s undergraduate neuroscience program is inferior for anyone who is actually interested in Neuroscience. In fact, you can find their internal proposal online that proposes to their university to start the program, and in it they specifically sights Pitt, along with Johns Hopkins, Michigan, and UCSD, among “the top university against which Ohio State benchmarks itself”. </p>

<p>I do not think it would be hard to double major in Neuroscience and Psychology at Pitt (or probably anywhere else). Even without a double major, it would certainly be simple, and recommended, to pick up any psychology or biology courses as electives if they fit your interests outside the coursework that is specifically offered by the Department of Neuroscience at Pitt. The general consensus is that Psychology courses are generally easier than Neuroscience coursework, or coursework that is sometimes pared with Neuroscience like Molecular Biology. All the gen ed requirements would be identical, and also some of the science ones. But getting good research experience is also of paramount importance because neuroscience is a research field (really, it is also important in psychology).</p>

<p>If you are only interested in psychology, it probably doesn’t matter which school you go to, but for anyone interested in the area where psychology overlaps with neuroscience (bio or neuropsychology if you will), Pitt has more going on. And it definitely has more going on in straight neuroscience.</p>

4

<p>The reason why i have my share of doubts on the quality of Pitt’s neuroscience program is this. Of course I’m well aware that people have been saying to me that they have the best, if the one of the best program for neuroscience. However, the way I see their neuroscience program is they tend to be more specialized towards Neurobiology, and not much breadth towards others like Cognitive or Behavioral Neuroscience, or so on. Now I’m thinking their neuroscience program were more biased towards preparing pre-med students for med school. While OSU program may not have begun (I know this puts them at a very disadvantaged seat), their program seems to be more broad. OSU also allows you to pick 5 courses from you specialization; eg, Behavioral Neuroscience and 2 courses from Molecular Neuroscience or Computational Neuroscience.</p>

<p>An example of one among 3 of OSU Neuroscience path (System/Behavioral Neurosc):
<a href=“http://neurosciencemajor.osu.edu/sites/neurosciencemajor.osu.edu/files/major-sheet-behav-sys.pdf[/url]”>http://neurosciencemajor.osu.edu/sites/neurosciencemajor.osu.edu/files/major-sheet-behav-sys.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Having said all that, my evaluation is only as good as judging the material they posted in their web. The reality might differ.</p>

<p>Also, correct me if I’m wrong Psychology major apparently is not as good in Pitt as it is in OSU. In OSU, the requirement for psych courses are 58 credits but in Pitt, it is only as few as 29, not to mentioned the amount of available psych courses are significantly more than that in Pitt, which I think psych students in Pitt won’t get the chance to get expose to much psych background</p>

<p>Pitt Psych major: [A&S</a> Majors and Minors | Undergraduate Bulletin | University of Pittsburgh](<a href=“http://www.bulletins.pitt.edu/undergrad/psychology.htm]A&S”>http://www.bulletins.pitt.edu/undergrad/psychology.htm)</p>

<p>OSU Psych major: [OSUM</a> Dept of Psychology](<a href=“http://psych.mansfield.ohio-state.edu/major.html]OSUM”>http://psych.mansfield.ohio-state.edu/major.html)
PDF version: <a href=“Undergraduate | Department of Psychology”>Undergraduate | Department of Psychology;

<p>Pitt available psych courses: [PSY</a> Courses](<a href=“http://www.courses.as.pitt.edu/results-subja.asp?SUBJ=PSY&TERM=2124]PSY”>http://www.courses.as.pitt.edu/results-subja.asp?SUBJ=PSY&TERM=2124)</p>

<p>OSU available psych courses: [OSUM</a> Dept of Psychology](<a href=“http://psych.mansfield.ohio-state.edu/major.html]OSUM”>http://psych.mansfield.ohio-state.edu/major.html)</p>

<p>But, Pitt small amount of credit requirement in psych major might turn out to be an advantage for me. Since Pitt doesn’t offer a minor in psych, this means I have to go with a double major (in Neuroscience & Psych) & I only need to complete 29 credit hours of psych courses since the general ed & co-requisite courses requirement for neuroscience & psych overlap. (Again, correct me if I’m mistaken :P)</p>

5

<p>Everyone reads all the threads, so no need to double (triple) post. Let’s move the conversation to this one rather than Awesome Opposom’s. Look, if you are more interested in Psychology, it really does not matter where you go. If you want to do research, you will have to go to grad school anyway. If you do Neuroscience at Pitt, you’d better be good at science for it is a challenging program. Though OSU is higher ranked in Psychology, it is not necessarily “better”. Perhaps you should look at the school environment outside of academics as well as cost, to make up your mind.
Also want to add, any deficiencies you have academically (subject matter which interest you but is not offered) can be addressed in grad school.</p>

6

<p>In my experience, neuroscience programs that are heavy in biopsych are that way because they are like OSU & rely on Psych department offerings because they don’t have their own faculty in order to offer dedicated courses in Neuroanatomy, Neurophysiology, Neurochem/Synaptic transmission, etc. While cognitive and behavior aspects of neuroscience are important, you have to understand systems-level as well as the cellular and molecular functioning of the neuron (& really also glia). The very nature of Neuroscience focuses on the biological underpinnings of disease, behavior, and function. That isn’t the case in psychology. The both have overlap, but different general focuses. </p>

<p>And in my experience, neurobehavioral offerings through a psych department will not be as rigorous or in-depth as a similar offering through a neuro or bio department. </p>

<p>Let me give you an example: the OSU requirement “Structure and Function of the Nervous System” (3050) probably best corresponds to Pitt Neurosci 1011 “Functional Neuroanatomy”. The OSU version describes it as an “Introductory course covering organization and function of the nervous system at a level understandable to science and non science majors.” However, Pitt’s neuroanatomy is actually the equivalent (or more) in depth to some medical or graduate-level neuroanatomy courses that I’ve seen. Particularly the honors version. The fact OSU’s is for non-science majors tells me it absolutely does not satisfactorily cover the topic.</p>

<p>The same is true if you click on the syllabus for OSU’s “Intro to Neurophysiology” (3010): it “is designed for majors or non-majors with a basic knowledge of biology”. That is in no way equivalent to Neurophysiology (1012) at Pitt that is an upper level course specifically for undergrad neuro majors. </p>

<p>Actually, the more I look into the OSU program, the more suspect it looks. If someone was interested in Neuroscience, I could not advise them to attend OSU given other options. </p>

<p>Pitt appears to have undergrad behavioral and cognitive neuro offerings: Brain & Behavior, Drugs in Behavior, Psychiatric Disorders, Neural Basis of Cognition, Biological Basis of Learning & Memory, and Neurochemical Basis of Behavior. I actually don’t see any of that at OSU. Rather I see a bunch of Psychology courses. OSU also lists, but doesn’t obviously differentiate, graduate courses that you need permission to take (you can do this at Pitt too, but Pitt doesn’t list them with the undergrad courses). Thus OSU’s list is somewhat deceiving. Pitt also has a undergraduate program in [Computation</a> Neuroscience](<a href=“http://www.neuroscience.pitt.edu/programs/undergraduate/ComputationalNeursocience.php]Computation”>http://www.neuroscience.pitt.edu/programs/undergraduate/ComputationalNeursocience.php), and I can tell you just by looking at the names involved that is a serious program, but again, actually purposefully oriented toward undergrad neuroscience students. There is a major difference between having a department and a program.</p>

<p>In my experience in the field, there really is not a better undergrad neuroscience program than Pitt. There are ones that are just as good, but not that are better in any significant way and that has to do with the dedicated faculty and the decades of refining the program. Having taught in Ivy League neuroscience programs that could be considered better based on some magazine ranking, I can assure you what I say is true from direct experience on both sides of the lectern.</p>

<p>If you only want to do psychology and OSU provides more of the courses that you wish to pursue, than perhaps you should go there. However, its psychology department does not have a better reputation than Pitt’s. There really is no difference. </p>

<p>BTW, you are wrong about the requirements, Pitt requires 34 to 35 credits in Psych, OSU 12 courses (which is about the same). The OSU links you provided was from the Mansfield branch campus and the other is out of date so you are not looking at the right list. The list from Pitt was only one semester’s course offerings. The correct lists showing requirements are at [here</a> for Ohio State](<a href=“Undergraduate | Department of Psychology”>Undergraduate | Department of Psychology) and the equivalent list is [here</a> for Pitt](<a href=“http://www.psychology.pitt.edu/documents/PSYA_Sdegreesheet6-11.pdf]here”>http://www.psychology.pitt.edu/documents/PSYA_Sdegreesheet6-11.pdf). Note that Pitt’s doesn’t list every course offered like OSU, and Pitt’s psych offerings for Fall 2012 only are [url=&lt;a href=“http://www.courses.as.pitt.edu/show-subj.asp?TERM=2131&SUBJ=PSY]here[/url”&gt;http://www.courses.as.pitt.edu/show-subj.asp?TERM=2131&SUBJ=PSY]here[/url</a>]. Be sure you aren’t comparing apples to oranges.</p>

<p>In the end, classes will provide the background material and electives let you explore your interests, but your real learning and most valuable experience will be conducting research in a lab.</p>

<p>Honestly, if you don’t want to go to Pitt, you shouldn’t go. It isn’t wrong to choose a school based on other factors like setting or anything else. But don’t attend OSU because you think their neuroscience program is better. It isn’t really even close.</p>

7

<p>Well, I should apologize and clear this up. It might sound as though I don’t wanna go to Pitt whether on a conscious or unconscious level but, really my decision, in a way, from the start was already to stick with Pitt (after I paid the acceptance fee to OSU; before that, I didn’t know their neuroscience program was at a premature stage & the heavy GPA requirement for Pitt neuroscience was actually its honor program). I’m sorry if I start to sound annoying with the numerous posts but it was only because I wanna make sure my decision is as best I can make it to be and wanna make sure Pitt is the right choice. </p>

<p>Thanks a lot, wgmcp101 for pointing out to me the mistake I made on psych major in Mainsfield campus. Didn’t notice that :stuck_out_tongue:
Well, that really also help me make my judgement in a way…</p>

<p>By the way, just curious. southeastmom, what do you mean when you wrote “Also want to add, any deficiencies you have academically (subject matter which interest you but is not offered) can be addressed in grad school.” What do you mean by addressing? sorry :/</p>

8

<p>Well first of all let me say that you should listen to wgmcp101 since he knows a lot more that I do. However all I meant, is that grad school is where you specialize within the field. During your undergrad years, you will probably discover aspects of the program which interest you more than others and you can pick a grad school based on your interests. There you will be able to learn more about those areas which interest you the most and take courses accordingly.</p>