<p>I'm a mathematics undergrad, here are my stats:</p>
<p>GPA 3.45
Major GPA 3.6
GRE: 790 Q 660 V 4.5 AW
Math Subject: Taking in mid October, expect ~80%ile
Research Experience: Only in algebraic cryptanalysis which is largely irrelevant to neuro (though I'm mainly interested in computational, so maybe that will help?)
I've taken grad courses in Mathematical logic, complexity theory and formal verification</p>
<p>I've no official credentials for anything biology/chemistry related. I've spent the last year self-studying a good bit and am largely familiar with neuroanatomy, the dynamics of action potential propagation (K+/Na+ Ion pumps, myelinated vs. unmyelinated axons etc.) , the basics of perceptual processing (especially visual processing), basics of spike train statistics and neural networks/Hebbian learning (on the more computational side), the Hodgkins-Huxley model etc. I've also been reading Glimcher's Foundations of Neuroeconomic Analysis and am very interested in the mechanics of choice and motivation and the connection between positive/negative motivational reinforcement and dopaminergic neurons.</p>
<p>I'm not sure if there are programs I should be looking at that are more likely than others to overlook my lack of any on-paper biology background, and I'm really just trying to get a sense for how I will be perceived by neurosci programs generally.</p>
<p>I'm primarily looking at programs that have strong cognitive and computational leanings and I'm not too picky about where I end up, so long as I can find a couple of people doing interesting work.</p>
<p>Any advice or suggestions/ feedback would be much appreciated. What I'm looking for is along the lines of "You are/are not a good candidate generally, for the following reasons...", "You might want to check out program_x", or anything else in terms of strategies for getting in or where I seem to stand.</p>
<p>The person I know looked for strong programs in computational NS and cognitive science. He came from CS major. UB, CMU, MIT, and others fit that description.</p>
<p>I have a friend who was in a similar position. She applied to computational neuroscience programs with a background in math and computer science. Her only documented neuroscience background came from an REU in computational neuroscience, from where she got one letter of recommendation. </p>
<p>She was rejected from all of the eight neuroscience programs she applied to, which she attributes to her lack of biology/chemistry coursework. She is now a graduate student in applied mathematics.</p>
<p>“I’m primarily looking at programs that have strong cognitive and computational leanings and I’m not too picky about where I end up, so long as I can find a couple of people doing interesting work.”</p>
<p>USC also has a strong, upcoming program, and they are extremely committed [$$$] to expanding their graduate programs. My sons USC friend, who will be getting his PhD in Comp/ Neuro after a year in Oxford [he won a Churchill Scholarship], started working last year with some incredible professors at USC in this very area. He was kind of reluctant to move on.</p>
<p>My guess is that you cannot gain admission into a neuroscience program without at least some background in biology and chemistry. That said, students wishing to study computational neuroscience are often not expected to have the same background as someone wishing to pursue, say, molecular neuroscience.</p>
<p>Carnegie Mellon has a new PhD program in Neural Computation as part of the CMU/Pitt joint certificate program, the Center for the Neural Basis of Cognition. Here’s the link to it:</p>
<p>Although it wouldn’t be the same as getting a degree in neuroscience, it might address your research interests and background. </p>
<p>You can get into the CNBC through various PhD programs at Pitt and CMU. For instance, if accepted into Pitt’s math program or CMU’s computer science program, you could then apply to be part of the CNBC. Although you could apply to Pitt neuroscience with an emphasis in your SOP that you are applying because of your interest in the CNBC, I’m not sure you’d get in given your lack of background in biology and chemistry. Still, you could try. Even if you got into a neuroscience program, however, you might sink quickly without the bio/chem background because advanced courses assume background in the area.</p>
<p>If you really want a degree in neuroscience, I recommend taking a year to get a few biology and chemistry courses under your belt before applying.</p>
<p>Thanks for all of the feedback. I suppose I could consider taking some more time to graduate, my tuition is relatively cheap and I would be able to do it, but I already have taken 5 years to complete my degree, so I would only consider that path should I be rejected from all of the programs I want to get into. </p>
<p>So:</p>
<p>**Track 1<a href=“if%20I%20don’t%20get%20in”>/B</a>:
I’m relatively fast at picking up new (simple, undergraduate) material on my own (I taught myself calculus during the summer before college) and I’ve already been reading “The Microbiology of the Cell” for a while, as well as “Theoretical Neuroscience” and “Principles of Neural Science”. I think that it would be too late to try for the Microbiology GRE for this round, but perhaps I should take it in the spring and apply next fall, if all else fails? In the meantime I could test out of the basic chemistry and bio courses (my school allows you to take the CLEP for them, which is absurdly easy) and take the two semesters of organic (and maybe a micro-bio class) as a part time student to fill the additional year.</p>
<p>Thoughts?</p>
<p>**Track 2<a href=“go%20for%20Cognitive%20Science%20instead”>/B</a>
One possibility I have seen is taking the cognitive science track at a school that has a more computational spin. For instance, IU has a very interdisciplinary set up with a joint PhD in Cog Sci. I’m planning to apply there for CS/Informatics + Cog sci. I’m not sure how competitive those sorts of programs are or what they are looking for precisely. I’ve got plenty of math, logic and philosophy of mind background (I’ve read plenty of Dennett, Chlamers, Churchland etc.), which they seem to treat as relevant.</p>
<p>One issue with this second approach is that I’m not sure how cognitive science is viewed broadly outside of academia, since it is a fairly new discipline. Any thoughts on this?</p>
<p>I’m not very sure on his undergrad background, but a grad student in my lab majored in math and is now getting a PhD in Pathology. I’m sure it’s possible if you have the class prereqs.</p>
<p>The thing is that I don’t have any chem or bio classes, I’ve self studied a fair bit, but I doubt that will cut it. On the other hand, I’m not really interested in neurophysiology or neurobiology so much as computational and cognitive neurosci. </p>
<p>I’m aware that I need to know the physiology and anatomy of the brain (and I have picked up/am picking up a lot of knowledge on this front), but my interest is in computation and cognition. I’m interested in how to distill the brain’s functionality into algorithms and in relating bottom level phenomena to higher order phenomena like selective attention, motor planning, problem solving, the mechanisms of choice/decision making, pattern recognition/categorization (and on a more lofty note) self-awareness, consciousness, etc. </p>
<p>So Cognitive science is appealing, and cognitive/computational neuroscience are appealing as well; even cognitive or neuro-psychology. I find physiology and biochemistry fascinating, but they are not my primary interests.</p>
I am not sure whether she applied to any top neuroscience programs at all. I don’t remember her full list but I do remember wondering whether she was selling herself short. That was before the admission results came in, obviously. </p>
<p>I have no idea what went wrong. Maybe her complete lack of bio + chemistry coursework was a deal breaker. Maybe her one and only neuroscience reference letter was not strong enough. She was disappointed that her application didn’t even make it to the interview stage. Her math references were probably fine, since she was accepted to several strong math programs.</p>
<p>Well, it’s starting to sound as though I should go ahead and get some organic chem and some bio coursework under my belt. The down side is that I’ll have to spend another year at college (albeit part time) the upside would be that I might have sufficient background to tackle the MCAT and go for an MD/PhD Neurosci program (I know my basic undergraduate physics, so bio and chem could put me in the running).</p>
<p>Anyone have any opinions/insight on the MD/PhD programs in neuroscience as opposed to the normal PhD track? I presume there would be more of a neurobiology bent to those programs.</p>
<p>My home institution doesn’t have a neurosci program, but a neighboring one does. Maybe I should try to contact some people over there and see if I can finagle some lab work.</p>
<p>Neuroscience is an extremely competitive field right now, so unless you have exactly what a program wants, you’re sunk.</p>
<p>@Zetetic: you don’t necessarily have to know neuroanatomy before you enter a computational neuroscience track – you’ll get that in your core courses – but you should know about cell structure and functions, chemical processes, and enough background in cells/neuroscience to know about and tackle issues in the subfield. You need some background in biology and chemistry. Not everyone in a neuroscience program has majoring in neuroscience or even taken classes specifically in neuroscience. Remember that some come from psychology backgrounds, which are weaker in math and natural science than biology ones. My guess is that all you would need is cell bio and organic chemistry, although, of course, both of those courses come with prerequisites.</p>
<p>An MD/PhD program is going to be much tougher for you to gain admittance. You have to have the MD background (generally = 2 semesters of English, 2 semesters of general chem, 2 semesters of organic chemistry, 2 semesters of physics, 2 semesters of biology, 2 semesters of math, PLUS clinical work, extracurriculars, and a high MCAT score) in addition to having research experience. And a cumulative GPA of 3.6 or better.</p>
<p>The prereqs for cell bio and organic can be surmounted via CLEP tests at my home institution. I’ve a fair bit of basic knowledge, and I think I could tackle the tests and the subsequent courses (though I’m sure I’ll be swamped with work while taking organic).</p>
<p>Fair points about the MD track; truthfully I don’t really have much interest in medical applications anyway (aside from perhaps neuroprosthetics), so putting in that much additional work/time would not be worth it. I’m thinking that I should just pick up the organic chem and microbiology courses and finish up my philosophy minor (about done) and comp sci minor (I’d only need two additional classes).</p>