New 3.0 to 3.3 (GPA) Parents Thread

Parents Forum
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<p>I’m so pleased that this thread is working out.</p>

<p>My son is a bit more like Cardinal Fang’s son, with his test scores being disproportionately higher than his GPA, and so may be branded an underacheiver. (He definitely did not study the way that he should have, and sometimes didn’t study at all…but he has been very committed to other things and just got a wake up call during college vists. Now all of a sudden he is studying and doing much better…but it’s too late to really affect his GPA.) He has a lot of strong ECs, but is interested in schools (big publics) that I don’t think really consider ECs. </p>

<p>We also have affordability issues, and I think small = expensive (normally), unless I’m missing something! </p>

<p>For him, I think a large school will be okay. He is pretty responsible and is usually up and out the door before the rest of us are even awake. So I’m not thinking he will suddenly start skipping class just because they wouldn’t notice he is there. Actually, I’m sort of wondering if having a big class will mean that he pays more attention because he won’t be busy joking with his friends so much or trying to maintain some kind of “BMOC” reputation. When we look at the whole package that is our son, we do see him fitting in best at a larger school. So I have to support his interest in that. (He also wants a school with some kind of great sports team to root for, and with a good Greek system.) He is extremely outgoing and has a “big” personality. Unfortunately he isn’t very introspective and he isn’t worried about getting into a school…he has said to me already, “I will get into a college, and I will go there and like it.” I guess it’s good that he doesn’t worry…but maybe that is the case because he knows I do enough worrying for the both of us!</p>

<p>Having said that, I guess I wish I could find maybe a “medium” school…something that maybe had 5,000 kids instead of 15,000. Then again, I don’t know that a 5,000 kid school is necessarily going to give a kid any more attention than a 15,000 one…so maybe what I’d really like for him is a school that has an excellent guidance department. Does any college actually have this, even small ones? </p>

<p>My biggest concern right now is that every school on our list is a possible rejection. The GC gave us two schools that she thought were safeties: IU and UMass. He didn’t really like IU and we haven’t seen UMass yet. I keep thinking about that “love your safety” thing and it worries me. His top choice right now is University of Maryland, but to me it looks like a 50/50 shot given his GPA.</p>

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<p>Schoolmom, this line jumped out: “He has really hated high school.”</p>

<p>My older S – the one who flunked out of U Minn. – had always hated school even though he is very bright and read and wrote extensively on his own. He said he wanted to go to college, and clearly was very capable of going to college, so we went him to college. However, I had done virtually all of the college search work for him. He didn’t even bother to open mail that colleges sent due to his high scores. He had me open the mail and show him the mail that seemed to match his college preferences (big city, large college, good sports, cold weather, affordable).</p>

<p>I also stood over him – literally – making sure he got his apps in. After he had gotten acceped to his second choice school – Oct. of senior year – he stopped working in school and even told his teachers that he didn’t need to do homework because he’d gotten into college.</p>

<p>He went to Minn. with very generous merit aid (due to his scores, prospective major, and ECs) and then pursued his EC very avidly, made friends, started partying (we found out this much later. He had never been social before at all. ), and flunked out because he didn’t bother to go to class or do assignments.</p>

<p>I learned my lesson with that experience! With younger S, who liked school and said he wanted college, I didn’t organize his college apps. He missed the deadlines for all of te college that interested him. He then on his own applied to Americorps, and got a position in our city. H and I had warned him that if he ran into serious grade problems senior year, we would not help pay for college until he had gotten decent grades in college for a year of fulltime study on his own dime. Senior year, he almost didn’t graduate due to senioritis.</p>

<p>During his Americorps year, he lived at home and paid rent (House rules for offspring who are grown and not in college), and organized himself to apply to college. He also had to pay for applications. He applied to 2 – the hometown public and a private LAC, and decided to go to the LAC for good reasons. He liked the academics, small classes, etc.</p>

<p>H and I co-signed loans for him, and S went off to that LAC, where he also got $10 k a year merit aid that’s based on his maintaining a 3.0. S has done wonderfully there, and after his freshman year, H and I chipped in to help pay for his college. S works on campus during the school year, has demanding ECs, and has good grades and nice friends – friends who are smart students who have high grades and demanding ECs. </p>

<p>Anyway, if your S hates school, that’s a hint that college may not be something for him to do – at least not right after high school. If he is like older S and is attracted to big campuses for the wonderful school spirit, the sports teams, and the large classes that you can skip without professors noticing or caring, that’s more evidence that college isn’t for him, at least not right now. If senior year comes and your S can’t organize himself to get his apps in or if he has severe senioritis, that’s more evidence that it would be best for him to not go to college right after high school or at the very least, you should have some clear expectations about what gpa he needs to maintain in college to continue to receive your support.</p>

<p>A post high school year in the real world was eye opening for younger S who learned how much things cost, and how little he could do without the kind of job that one gets with more education. He also learned that in the work world, one has to write reports and make deadlines, and employers are far less forgiving about procrastination than are high school teachers.</p>

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<hr>

<h2>Quote: Northstarmom (sorry, don’t know how to quote properly). “Anyway, if your S hates school, that’s a hint that college may not be something for him to do – at least not right after high school. If he is like older S and is attracted to big campuses for the wonderful school spirit, the sports teams, and the large classes that you can skip without professors noticing or caring, that’s more evidence that college isn’t for him, at least not right now.”</h2>

<p>I think I might agree with the first sentence here but not the second. If a kid is attracted to big schools because of school spirit/sports teams (I don’t know that anyone is attracted to a big school because of big classes), I don’t feel that this means college is not for them. I was attracted to big schools and school spirit and sports teams…lots of kids are! </p>

<p>Perhaps hating school may be a bigger warning flag, but again, one has to find out why the kid hates school. It could be that it’s because the school is too small and everyone knows your business! It could be a social issue, or even a school spirit issue (maybe there isn’t any). </p>

<p>One thing I’ve learned through this process is that we can’t make any generalizations. All of our kids are different. Every kid with the same current GPA as our kid isn’t going to make the same decisions or fit into the same school as our kids did. It’s great to share experiences, but we also have to be careful not to generalize.</p>

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<p>"If a kid is attracted to big schools because of school spirit/sports teams (I don’t know that anyone is attracted to a big school because of big classes), I don’t feel that this means college is not for them. I was attracted to big schools and school spirit and sports teams…lots of kids are! "</p>

<p>I know lots of people are attracted by school sports, etc. and excel with college academics. However, if a kid hates school and is attracted to college because s/he wants to be in a big school environment with major sports, etc. that’s a big hint that that kid isn’t interested in a college education, but is interested in enjoying things like going to college sports games.</p>

<p>Older S had a wonderful time in college – making friends, partying, going to sports games, participating avidly in ECs. He just didn’t bother going to class because he wasn’t interested in the academics. He’s a smart person who prefers to learn completely on his own. He was capable of being at the top of his class, but he ended up flunking out because he didn’t do the coursework.</p>

<p>Consequently, I agree with the person who said that a person who hates school, but wants to go to a big college to enjoy the sports scene and campus, just as well move to that college town and have an apartment and job and not bother enrolling in college.</p>

<p>Older S is supporting himself in a big city that has a college and sports. He is happy. H and I aren’t footing the bill for college that he’s not attending. Maybe some day, he’ll decide to return to college for the right reasons and on his own dime. When I taught college, I had students who did exactly that and who got top grades.</p>

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<p>Thanks, Ready. This is where I belong…S has a 3.2 right now but it could change (for the better, fingers crossed) after this semester. He’s taking the SAT and if the PSAT is even close to a predictor of his SAT score, he may be in the 1900-2000 range. He’s so much like Cardinal Fang’s S and I think a small to med size LAC is for him. The only caveat is he wants to live close to home and on campus. I’m looking forward to being a part of the discussion on this thread - the year ahead will be a busy and exciting one for S and me since he’s a jr.</p>

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<p>Count me as another who is thankful for this thread. DS has a 3.2 GPA in mostly honors classes and will have 6 AP’s by the time he graduates. He has tested out of two history classes and will test out of one more next year. He has also fulfilled his PE during the summer and tested out of Health so as to clear room in his schedule for marching band all four years. His 3.2 is unweighted, but does include band A’s, which certainly help. His school will weight eventually, but does not weight as heavily as most schools I read about on CC do. He scored a 31 on the ACT. He was diagnosed ADD and put on a drug in the fall of his junior (this) year and has had a dramatic turn around, but also has dropped one honors class (complicated circumstance that principal has offered to attest to in a recommendation letter). He has lots of EC’s, is a voracious and freakishly speedy reader and is a talented writer (despite not-so-stellar writing score on ACT–APLAC teacher will attest in recommendation), so will write strong essays. In talking about his turn around, he stated “it seems like school is back to the way it was before 8th grade, where I try at all and I do well, whereas for a long time it seemed like I tried and tried and I just couldn’t do well”.</p>

<p>I have compiled a list of schools for him (by no means exhaustive) to consider applying to based on his criteria: good marching band (HS band is state champ), medium to large size, out of state (a couple are in), no more than two states away (will flex for the right school). He wants to major in history and go on to study law.</p>

<p>His schools (not sure they all meet all criteria): </p>

<p>REACH:
Syracuse
James Madison University
MATCH:
Colorado State University
Michigan State University
Kenyon College
Purdue
Miami University
Nova Southeastern University
Temple University
SAFETY:
Appalachian State University
Central Michigan University
Cleveland State University</p>

<p>Any input appreciated.</p>

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<p>Schmoomcgoo, if you have any questions about Temple, feel free to PM me.</p>

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<p>Schmoogoo, with a 31 on the ACT, an UNweighted 3.2 in mostly honors and 6 AP’s, your son is probably overqualified for this thread. (Not trying to be mean, that’s actually good news!) That said, he sounds little better off than my D, who is a 3.2 UNweighted with 11 honors, no AP, and a 27 on the ACT. Not sure where you’re located, but perhaps add UConn to your list. Also, my D’s GC says that Syracuse and James Madison are matches for her, so they’d be at least matches for your S, not reaches. (Not that I put that much faith in this GC, she also thought Lafayette was a match for D… ummm, no.)</p>

<p>Ready to Roll, I was just at UMass. Their average GPA is was a 3.55 last year, the adcom thought it would be closer to 3.6 this year, but that is WEIGHTED (+0.5 for honors and +1.0 for AP). You can figure out how that matches to your son, and again that’s just an average GPA, not a minimum. As for medium sized schools, how about Marist? We were just there as well, their sticker price is $36k, but they offer an automatic $8k/year scholarship for students with a minimum 3.3 GPA (recalculated) and a 25 on the ACT (not sure what the SAT cutoff was, but it’s on their website). They have 4000 students on a beautiful, very technologically up-to-date campus.</p>

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<p>Lafalum, I most sincerely hope you’re right, but he ranks around 50th percentile in his class. I haven’t even looked at the B+ thread…I just don’t see him as a B+ student…more of a barely B student (albeit in the tougher classes with a 31 ACT, so maybe I need to recalibrate). Do others agree he’s in good shape for the schools on my/his list? I’ll happily receive rejection from this thread, if it’s warranted.</p>

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<p>Not to dismay anyone, but many colleges recompute high school GPAs based on their own formulas that ignore most classes outside of the core academic areas. A’s in music, phys ed, art, home economics (or whatever they call it these days) and certain other subjects will not influence their GPA calculation at all. That said, my son’s GPA was somewhat lower than 3.0 when he was applying (he had really turbulent freshman and sophomore years before getting with the program) and he was accepted at Albright, Fairleigh Dickinson (Madison), Hartwick, Moravian and Susquehanna, some with non-need based scholarship money. He is now doing very well at Susquehanna. There is hope for kids like this.</p>

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<p>Schmoomcgoo, I don’t think your son is overqualified for this thread. 50th percentile in class, 3.2 GPA = Hello B+ Thread!</p>

<p>Kenyon might be reachy for him, with that class rank. Doesn’t mean he shouldn’t apply, but if he likes Kenyon, he might want to include some easier-to-get-in LACs. Maybe College of Wooster?</p>

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<p>Schmoo and Lafalum. You guys are great, and your kids sound wonderful…but both of you do not qualify for this thread. If your kids both have a 3.2 unweighted but are taking a boatload of honors/AP, then we’re talking about kids with a much higher GPA. I’d really like to keep this thread centered around that, regardless of ACT/SAT score, because the schools/issues for a kid with a low GPA, even with higher test scores, are much different than for a kid with a high GPA and a lower test score.</p>

<p>Schmoo…I think Syracuse and JMU are at least matches for your kid. They seem to be high-matches for my kid (based on our Naviance) and he has a 3.2 weighted GPA, so much lower than your child’s will be, with somewhat similar test scores but perhaps not as good.</p>

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<p>Schmoo…I just saw what you said about your son’s rank. That’s a disconnect for me…how can he be ranked at the 50th percentile with such a high GPA? Or…is the ranking based on unweighted GPAs only, putting him up against kids with similar averages but no honors/AP courses?</p>

<p>Our school doesn’t rank, but they report 3.0 as the median GPA…which is a weighted GPA. (Of course, many students have not taken any classes that would be weighted.) They also don’t provide unweighted GPAs.</p>

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<p>Our high school’s median GPA is about 3.3 weighted. I am sure that there are schools out there where it is higher than that. If Schmoo’s son’s GPA has not gotten much of a boost from whatever weighted classes he has taken, he would pretty close to 50th percentile here as well. Note that Scmoo said the school does not weight as heavily as some.</p>

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<p>I am so happy to see this thread and the possible suggestions for colleges. The biggest challenge is finding schools that will be academically challenging and still accept my son (and give him some $$$)</p>

<p>Marist appears to be getting more difficult to get into. They only accepted about 40% of their applicants and we know kids who should have shoo ins that were denies. </p>

<p>We have looked at Susquehanna’s website and my son was interested but GC said that it was a suitcase school and no one is around on the weekends. Any truth to this??</p>

<p>It also seemed as if a lot of the CTCL schools were looking for higher GPA’s???</p>

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<p>Yes, Marist is more difficult to get into, but it is a match school for B student with decent ACT/SAT scores. I would look closely as to how many rejects that should have been shoo ins required a lot of FA. I know of someone whose D was rejected from Marist with wonderful stats. She also was going to be the 3rd child to be in college so significant FA was in the cards. I don’t know if this had a thing to do with the rejection, but the last time I checked their endowment was rather low. Anyway, it is something to consider.</p>

<p>Susquehanna has a beautiful campus, but it is rather remote. One would not find a bus, train, or cab, so one would need a car to get off campus on weekends, and to get home.</p>

<p>As far as gpa, one MUST consider the high school that the student comes from. Not all 3.1s or 3.7s are equal, and we did hear this from an admissions counselor at UNC-Wilmington. If you are worried about it, why not pick a couple of CTCL schools (which also do not have the same gpa criteria for admission) as well as some safeties? One can also find LACs that are not on the CTCL list for a B student.</p>

<p>More suggestions: Ithaca, Alfred, Elmira, SUNYS if looking at Marist.</p>

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<p>Marist is a little too close to home for us and alas, no big sports there. I looked at our Naviance, though, and it seems to be a good suggestion for the B to B plus student, particularly if test scores are strong. Of course the downside to looking at Naviance is that you can’t tell which data points are from which years, so if it is getting harder to get into, you would have no idea…</p>

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<p>My son is at Susquehanna and reports that, while some do go home on weekends, there are still usually plenty of students around. He is a freshman without a car and he seems to be getting along there just fine. We live about three hours away and I will be picking him up on Monday after his last exam. They do offer shuttles to the airport and train station in Harrisburg at the beginning and end of semesters and school break weeks. Depending on when you take it and when you make reservations, it can be free or cost upwards of $30 one way.</p>

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<p>Northern Arizona University is a great choice for B+ students, especially if they like outdoor activities. Warm weather but mountains, pine trees and some snow. The only kids I know who are there are in business programs - those programs seem to have a lot of internship/job focus.<br>
It’s not a football team that will ever hit the BCS, but at 16,000 undergrads it’s got a big school feel.</p>

<p>Nonresident students will be offered admission if they meet the following:</p>

<p>3.0 or higher GPA* (on a 4.0 scale), or
24 ACT or 1110 SAT (Math and Critical Reading Sections Only) composite score, or
top 25 percent class rank
and have no deficiencies in required course requirements.</p>

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<p>I wish our hs gave a median GPA. If they do, I haven’t seen it. Perhaps I should ask to see the school profile that they send to the colleges? They won’t calculate Class Rank until fall of senior year, either. Apparently we just got Naviance but it has no data entered yet, D said there was only one “dot” on the Northeastern grid but at least 5 kids from 2009 are going there. I feel kind of blind.</p>

<p>ReadytoRoll, my D hasn’t taken a single AP class, although our high school offers a dozen. The only one she plans to take next year as a senior is AP Studio Art, I’m not sure if colleges look at that as an AP, especially since she doesn’t plan to be an Art major. On a tour at UConn, the tour guide casually asked, “How many of you guys are taking AP classes?” and every kid except her raised their hand. My daughter muttered, “Ouch…” </p>

<p>Her 27 on the ACT was very reassuring after her PSAT: 57V, 50M, 53W. I’m hoping the SATs this morning were an improvement over the PSAT. If they were, I will happily remove myself from this thread, but if not… we’ll only be submitting the ACT.</p>

<p>I’m a big fan of Stonehill, but D won’t look there because it’s too close. It’s a good B/B+ school if any of you other parents want to check it out.</p>

<p>Interesting to hear about Marist, and the apparent rejection of relatively good students who need large FA. We know of 2 kids from our high school who were accepted there this year, and neither of them strikes me as strong students at all, although I haven’t seen their transcripts. One of them was waitlisted at UMass, and his parents complained frequently about his poor study habits while in hs. (That’s not intended as a knock on UMass, which is getting pickier by the minute thanks to the economy).</p>