<p>Amen, warriorboy648. I’ve often said that if I had a crystal ball and could see that my son will be fine at age 25, life would be a lot less stressful. In the meantime, venting to those in the same situation helps a lot.</p>
<p>Your son’s GC sounds like a wise person. My son had to write an English essay about a piece of advice that a significant adult in his life gave him about college. I happened to be the significant adult available the day before the essay was due. My advice - 'You are responsible for your actions and their consequences." He got his only “A” for an English essay all year for that one; maybe there is hope.</p>
<p>Delamer, that’s why we were so surprised S1 skipped class for this one course winter quarter. He was always SO responsible, and the one time he skipped in HS was because he’d missed school while at a big research conference and was trying to make up a project, and he knew he couldn’t stay after school to do it because the online newspaper staff was counting on him to finish the programming for their big revamp of the website that was rolling out the next week.</p>
<p>With the course in college, he never got a handle on it, found the prof hard to understand, didn’t care for it and thought he could pull out a decent grade through force of will. Didn’t quite work. In all his other college courses, he’s done fabulously well.</p>
<p>I’ve been trying carrot-and-stick with S2 lately. It’s working; the grades went up significantly. This does not make me happy. I really want to see some more intrinsic motivation – or at least not giving up – before I start shelling out $$.</p>
<p>Delamer, just to share another perspective. Our oldest son decided not to go to college at all, which set him up for several years of aimless drifting. </p>
<p>He just got a less-than-honorable discharge from the Army and came back to the States with some serious issues (drug use among others). He’s now almost 30 with essentially nothing going for him. </p>
<p>My wife and I are kicking ourselves for not making him at least try college (which we probably could have done, although that’s not entirely clear). Of course, we don’t know how it would have turned out, but it couldn’t be too much worse than what actually happened. And it might well have been better. </p>
<p>Our middle son is currently the college prospect (rising senior) who brought me to this thread. He’s totally different than our first, but we also have some of the concerns expressed by others. He’s immature, unorganized, an underachiever, etc. So of course we ask ourselves whether we’ll be wasting our money on an education that he won’t complete or that he’ll complete without really accomplishing anything. </p>
<p>In our case, however, the answer is informed by our experience with our first son: it’s a chance we’re willing to take. If it goes bad, we’ll move on to plan B, but we’ll have tried. </p>
<p>So, to me at least, it really looks like you’re doing the right thing. You’ve done what you can to encourage good choices, and now it’s up to him. </p>
<p>Thank you for sharing your older son’s story, gweeta. I’m sorry that he is still floundering; I’m sure it has been very difficult for your whole family.</p>
<p>I think we are doing the right thing by taking a chance on our son with college. It is, of course, hard not to look back and ask if we could’ve/should’ve done something different over the years to make him more successful at school. But we did try, and he is who he is.</p>
<p>In a way it is kind of silly, but I also can’t help but wonder what we would be doing if the money was a huge issue. If we had very limited funds set aside for his education or if we had to take out loans to finance the non-scholarship portion of the fees, then would we be making a different decision about sending him off to a four-year school? I suspect the answer is yes. But then I remind myself that one of the most important reasons to have some money in the bank is that it gives you options. And what better way to exercise an option than to use it for your child’s education?</p>
<p>lilmom, we have the same son!! My son also started out this year with a 3.4 and I as everyone else on this thread thought (being that he new the importance of Junior Yr.) this would be the year that he would turn things around and hopefully get upto a 3.5. Well, as in LILMOM’s son, he went down to a 3.27. He really needs to apply to colleges this summer as I am almost sure nothing will get done after school starts, but it is so hard in knowing where would be a good fit. His test scores are always in the 99% range. His ACT is 33 and he will at least be National Merit Commended. DH and I thought maybe he needs a gap year and just work, but unfortunately, that would mean he would no longer be on our health insurance. When we ask him about college, he says he definitely wants to go so I am really hoping that he will do better there. This past year as in the last 5 has been so draining on our family that I can’t imagine several more years of the same thing.</p>
<p>Best of luck, schoolmom. With your son’s great test scores and a solid B average, he’ll have plenty of good options for college. They just won’t be the high prestige schools that are the obsession of the rest of CC. Check out the CTCL schools if you haven’t already.</p>
<p>I can identify with the draining five years, or for us now six (if you don’t count that we found out in 5th grade that our son wasn’t handing in his homework).</p>
<p>The important issue for us now is whether he’ll get it together once he gets to college. I will try to keep this thread posted on my son’s progress once he goes off to college in the Fall. Maybe I’ll have some good news for other underachievers’ parents.</p>
<p>gweeta, your story reminded me of my sister. She was a gifted underachiever who wanted to join the air force. My parents talked her into going to a jc for a year (she was 17 and needed their permission to enlist). Long story short, she met an English teacher who inspired her to continue. Now, she’s a teacher herself w/advanced degrees. It has strengthened my resolved to help my S get into college where I know he will succeed. </p>
<p>But like schoolmom said, its about the fit. Schoolmom, if your S hasn’t already started his list, I hope you have. I did and its funny how close my choices have been to his. (Its a very short list.) The difference is I’ve thrown in a few reaches (some of which will now be thrown out because of his GPA) that he hasn’t thought of. You just never know what he’ll be thinking in a year (woulda/coulda/shoulda…) </p>
<p>Both my DH and I had wonderful experiences in college and i know our S will have the same. He just needs to believe it!</p>
<p>Delamer, please keep us posted w/s college intro. Its nice to be able to communicate w/other parents experiencing the same thing…</p>
<p>As I observed once before, there must be a reson why the overwhelming majority of concerned comments are about boys. I think there is hope in remembering that high school can be an awful experience for kids without their sharing it with the very caring parents who post. For many HS boys, it is a time of great uncertainty, fear and disappointment. Their childhood dreams of being professional atheltes have been shattered and most find they are not even stars–or players-at the HS level or just don’t like it, because HS schools are often far nastier than the coaches of middle school boys. Their hormones are kicking in but few know how to talk to girls or handle a dating relationship. HS cliques are more prevalent and more snotty than middle school and they lose self-confidence as a result. College is looming and they feel the pressure and often feel at sea about what to do or what it will be like to leave the comfort zone of home and friends. They can’t admit their insecurities, because that is uncool. They begin to realize that much of their homework will never have use in real life. They want to question authority, which generally means their parents and teachers and what better way than to blow off homework?
And some of them may not be underachievers, but kids who are simply not as academically gifted as we (or they) thought or hoped, but who may wind up being very successful and happy without an Ivy degree. Lots of boys, who are competitive by nature, give up a bit when they do not get high Board scores or a 4.0 in all AP classes and their school 9and perhaps their parents) treat them as vastly inferior to those who did–especially in affluent towns.
Many of these kids will bloom in college, when they realize it is not scary, a professor gives them good feedback and they enjoy the freedom of being away from hall monitors and feeling grown up because they pick their classes and their bedtimes.</p>
<p>yabeyabe ~ you have made a lot of valid points. Boys (at least mine) don’t tolerate busy work, don’t want to do worksheet after worksheet of meaningless repetitive stuff, and don’t accept arbitrary, ever changing rules. It has taken me a while to realize this after having a girl who (like me) would do whatever the teacher or school wanted, both to make them happy and to get a good grade.</p>
<p>Beware, my S didn’t have much tolerance for orientations at college, either. He did get through it and it probably helped (although he wouldn’t admit it). Now he is doing well. There are very few worksheets, if any, no coloring assignments, lol and most of the work is meaningful. Although depending on the class and his level of interest, it might be boring. I think this is just the nature of boys.</p>
<p>He is leaving in about 3 hours with 4 of his friends for a week away at a vacation condo belonging to one of them. He hasn’t packed a thing yet, just brought his laundry up to be washed a few hours ago, so who knows what he will eventually organize. If I make a suggestion, I get (nicely), “Mom, I’m in college now.” Yes, dear, I know.:)</p>
<p>There have got to be some girls who don’t tolerate busy work, don’t want to do worksheet after worksheet of meaningless repetitive stuff and hate arbitrary rules. I know I was one.</p>
<p>Kitty, I totally agree with you. These are my 2 oldest boys…don’t tolerate busy work, can tune off if desired uninspiring teachers, can do extremely well with teachers that they like. S1 skipped most of his orientation sessions but doesn’t “skip class” in college. Two years in college have made him personally better organized and far less reliant on me and far less tolerant of ‘suggestions’ about how to run his life. His GPA is far, far better than I could have ever hoped for. No doubt both my Ss have learned much in high school and somehow they retain most of what they have learned based on the standardized tests, but to me GPAs are highly reflective of “buy in” to the process. My attitude for my kids has changed and if kids “score” about where they really should on the standardized tests, if they are learning in high school, if they are doing relatively well on cumulative class tests in high school, if they are writing their papers and getting decent grades on the paper then the B+ for lack of homework assignments and whatnot I’ve learned to live with. My number 3 is the opposite of 1 and 2 and is a 4.0 kid. He will do every, single, little bit of homework and extra credit to get the grade. Is he “smarter” than his brothers - of course not - he just really loves seeing those 100s and extra credit points on the computer. He also gravitates toward team sports and is far more competitive about his sports. S1 and S2, while playing sports, did not play the “team sports” gravitating toward the teams that were more individual. And you know what, three’s grade obsession and competitiveness drives me as crazy as the other two’s lack of grade obsession. Love the kids you’ve got because they are who they are for whatever reason and by the time they are old enough to think about college you probably aren’t going to change them much.</p>
<p>There is no question that my son’s self esteem has taken a hit due to being at such a competitive high school. I’ve told him that the school is atypical, and that most college-bound kids in the US are not in such a high pressure environment. I’ve even tried the argument from the song – “If you can make it there, you can make it anywhere.”</p>
<p>Unfortunately, he doesn’t have the maturity to recognize that the highly successful kids have to work hard for their grades regardless of how innately bright they might be. He also complains about the amount of cheating that goes on – kids copying homework and other assignments and cheating on tests. He claims that if they’re caught, they cry and moan (literally evidently) and the teachers don’t take punitive action. I’m sure this kind of thing happens; I don’t know how pervasive it really is.</p>
<p>I have hopes that being at a college where he is one of the higher ability students will help with the self-esteem issue.</p>
<p>I believe one of the most important factors in determining whether kids who are not self-starters succeed in college is whether the faculty are what I think of as “nurturing”, rather than just what many colleges boast, which is “accessible”. To me, an accessible faculty is one which welcomes student visits to their offices, or emails, but a nurturing faculty proactively reaches out to kids, especially those who are neither obviously on top of the class or obviously struggling.</p>
<p>I welcome advice on how to spot a nurturing school; on visits, every small Midatlantic college has talked about its accessible faculty, but when I ask the student guide whether the teachers reach out on their own, the answer tends to be no.</p>
<p>I think you ask the $64,000 question, yabeyabe2. My friend whose son stumbled his way through college thought that because his college was small and the faculty was accessible that her son would be given guidance if they saw he was getting off track. Didn’t happen, and she wonders what she paid all that money for. </p>
<p>I think that nurturing is one of the criteria that is very important when the CTCL staff develops its list. I hope so, since that is a key reason that we chose a CTCL school for my son.</p>
<p>Hey guys, can I ask a question here on behalf of my D’s best friend? He’s a boy with an unweighted GPA of about 3.3-ish in IB classes. He’s a great kid interested in sports with an SAT score of 710W, 670CR and 610M. Wherein lies the problem. He’s got a straight C average all though high school in math. Can anyone give me any idea of schools that won’t tolerate a C? His list is Penn State, UConn, U Delaware, Stonybrook, Muhlenberg and Lafayette (first choices). I know Lafayette is likely too much of a reach, but someone tole me yesterday that UDel won’t tolerate a C. Does anyone have any insight or information? Some of these schools would seem to be matchy in terms of overal GPA, but the C might be a dealbreaker. he has a single mom with two younger kids, which is why she asked me to see what I could find out.</p>
<p>Delamer, no doubt some kids run best at the front of the pack. In selecting a collge, as a parent, you can help your children. My oldest son thrives at the front of the pack. When he’s mid-herd he just capitulates and has no desire to fire up. He’s just too laid back. During his freshman year one of his profs told my oldest that he was one of the best writers he’d ever had in class. My son just thrives when things like that happen and ups his work level to continue to “fulfill” this comment. Compare that behavior to my third who is constantly “on” competitively. Three is happiest trying to get to the head of the pack. In my mind this is part of the “fit” equation…while kids might not intuitively know themselves this way, we as parents, if we’re observant can put two and two together.</p>
<p>One fact – I know someone starting at Delaware in the Fall who had a “C” in an AP class in 1st semester senior year.</p>
<p>One speculation based on observation – Colleges are very high on IB kids. I’d think that as long as this boy isn’t applying as a math or engineering major that the “C’s” may be forgivable at his target schools.</p>
<p>Zoosermom, what about Gettysburg college? It is a smaller college in PA right in the heart of civil war battlefields. It even has a civil war major. I recently visited the town for a soccer tournament and was very impressed. We had planned to see the college and battlefields while we were between games, however our plans were changed. I can tell you that I was impressed with Gettysburg Hospital ER staff! One CAT scan and 6 staples in the head later, we were released and allowed to play the next day!</p>