<p>JL50ish</p>
<p>Thank you for all the great advice. Daughter is still a junior so we still have plenty of time to visit. She scored a 31 on the ACT after her 10th grade year so she still needs one more point. Also we have to wait and see how her PSAT went. If she does just a little better than last year she will have a very good shot at the National Hispanic Recognition Program which pays full tuition and room and board.</p>
<p>navarre..>>> JL50ish</p>
<p>Thank you for all the great advice. Daughter is still a junior so we still have plenty of time to visit. She scored a 31 on the ACT after her 10th grade year so she still needs one more point. Also we have to wait and see how her PSAT went. If she does just a little better than last year she will have a very good shot at the National Hispanic Recognition Program which pays full tuition and room and board. <<<</p>
<p>Make sure that she also takes the SAT, since many score relatively higher on that because UA (at least for now) is only counting Math and CR (my younger son was able to score much higher on the SAT then the ACT since the Science Reasoning was his lowest score on the ACT and there is no such section on SAT). </p>
<p>Don't forget....If she gets National Hispanic, she still needs an ACT 32 or the SAT equivalent to get the big scholarship.</p>
<p>^
JL50ish: Have you looked at the academic bloodbath... er, job market... lately? You can't be that picky, unless you're a business professor.... It's BRUTAL!</p>
<p>question...</p>
<p>LOL...</p>
<p>Even so... with so many "two career families" out there, it can sometimes be difficult to get the spouse to move to an unfamiliar area of the country. When my husband's company moved here(from Calif), no female employees moved (their hubby's refused to let their careers be affected by such a move) and the men whose wives had careers didn't move either.</p>
<p>Wow. A 1400 SAT and a 3.5 GPA would get me a full ride to Alabama? :O</p>
<p>No one is demanding that poor students be admitted to a school they are not academically prepared for. And rarely is that the case. Most students, 2.0 GPA legacy cases excepted, who attend colleges of UA's tier earn their spots. The question is whether UA does or does not offer the financial support to its poorest students to be able to enroll or complete college. The school's need aid is terrible (2.5% of all institutional aid) and its merit aid is not always enough to meet the full need of the poor (combine the Pell and Collegiate Scholar merit award, and you're talking about $10K in loans or out of pocket for a 0 EFC family). It makes it very difficult for poor students to graduate given the odds put against them. They're paying the same tuition and fees. And are being offered no support, from family, Alabama govt or UA to complete their college education.
Frankly, if all UA has to say to these students, all qualified to enroll at UA is "UA is only for those that can afford it. Consider a weaker state school" then UA and the Alabama board of higher education is failing in its mission.
(BTW - a weaker state school isn't always feasible either. Tuition is 500-1K cheaper and a UA candidate may jump to a higher tier in merit aid. But at these schools, merit aid is limited - not much to spread around to qualified candidates - and their need aid almost non-existent)</p>
<p>Xcellerator</p>
<p>just to make sure that you understand... you would get free tuition - so a full tuition scholarship.... A "free ride" is different... a free ride includes tuition, room, board, etc...</p>
<p>Just wanted make sure that you understand that the scholarship is for tuition only - you still have room and board and books to pay for. However, some departments (like Engineering) will give you an additional $2500 per year (which pays for about half of your dorm costs)</p>
<p>ferryboat.... </p>
<p>the point I was making about attending a local Alabama university is so the student won't have room and board to pay for. Frankly, I know A LOT of middle class families from all over this country that must choose their local state school because THEY can't afford to pay room and board - and THOSE people are INCOME TAX PAYERS.. So, why should others (who don't pay income tax) get to go for free - and have their room and board paid for, too? That is an insult to the middle class.</p>
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<blockquote> <blockquote> <p>It makes it very difficult for poor students to graduate given the odds put against them. They're paying the same tuition and fees. And are being offered no support, from family, Alabama govt or UA to complete their college education. <<<<</p> </blockquote> </blockquote>
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<p>First of all, the "Alabama gov't" provides money to EVERY Alabama resident who attends a state school - it's called subsidized tuition - which is why the tuition is only $6400 per year - in-state. The state of Alabama is providing about $10k per year to subsidize each of its state college students.</p>
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<blockquote> <blockquote> <p>No one is demanding that poor students be admitted to a school they are not academically prepared for. And rarely is that the case. <<<<</p> </blockquote> </blockquote>
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<p>Oh yes that is the case... and it is often the case. Just pay attention to what goes on in Calif. The "Blue State Chorus" is forever whining about the UC admission's system which is required by law to use academics as its overwelming measure for admittance. This requirement excludes mostly non-asian, and poor minorities. The "Blue State Chorus" wants students who don't meet the academic requirements to be admitted. </p>
<p>In Alabama, as well as in other states, its poorer students have largely been (under)educated at their schools - either because of apathy at the school, and/or disinterest in education by the parent and/or the student. Many poorer students don't qualify for entrance simply because they either didn't take the right classes (must pass Algebra II), and/or they couldn't score high enough on the SAT or ACT.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the poor student who has been diligent and largely self-motivated, usually takes the right courses and can score high enough on the SAT/ACT to merit financial assistance.</p>
<p>Red States have a different philosophy towards welfare and entitlements. The means to go to college are there if the person is willing to do what is needed to do (not just show up and have everything handed to them). With all the below aid available, the AVERAGE F/A package is about $12,000 - obviously, some get more and some get less - depending on EFC. (Nearly all of these programs are available no matter which state school the person attends - so, if possible attend one nearby so R&B isn't necessary.) If a student needs more money, then that is what part-time jobs and summer jobs are for. I know its hard for some to understand, but Red States have the philosophy that people don't often appreciate what is "just handed to them" and it furthers the notion of having a sense of "entitlement." They believe that if a person has to "work a bit" to get something, he'll do a better job because he'll have some of his own "sweat equity" invested in it (a similar philosophy is used with Habitat for Humanity - families aren't just "given" homes, the family has to provide some "sweat equity.")</p>
<p>Frankly, I don't understand this notion of the poor just getting a free college education at the school of their choice. The working class and middle class don't get that. My working class parents have paid taxes all their lives (ages 88 and 80), while raising 7 children. Their children were the first to go to college. They never once had the attitude that the state or a university should just provide us all a free college education - along with room and board - just because their income was low. We went to the local UC, lived at home, and worked part-time and during the summer.</p>
<p>From the website....</p>
<p>As far as Financial Aid for UA's "poor" students...</p>
<p>Coca Cola Scholarships for First Generation College Students (see website for details)</p>
<p>Grants
Pell Grant
A federal Pell Grant, unlike a loan, does not have to be repaid. Pell Grants are awarded only to undergraduate students who have not earned a bachelor's or a professional degree. Pell Grants are awarded to students who are eligible based on the results of the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA). The amount you get will also depend on your status as a full-time or part-time student.</p>
<p>Supplemental Educational Opportunity Grant (SEOG)
The federal Supplemental Educational Opportunity Grant (FSEOG) program is for undergraduates with exceptional financial need. Pell Grant recipients with the lowest EFC will be considered first for a SEOG. Just like the federal Pell Grant, the SEOG does not have to be repaid. </p>
<p>Academic Competitiveness Grant Program
An eligible student may receive an Academic Competitiveness Grant (ACG) of $750 for the first academic year of study and $1,300 for the second academic year of study. To be eligible for each academic year, a student must: </p>
<p>Be a U.S. citizen;
Be a Federal Pell Grant recipient;
Be enrolled full-time in a degree program;
Be enrolled in the first or second academic year of his or her program of study at a two-year or four-year degree-granting institution;
Have completed a rigorous secondary school program of study (after January 1, 2006, if a first-year student, and after January 1, 2005, if a second-year student);
If a first-year student, not have been previously enrolled in an undergraduate program; and
If a second-year student, have at least a cumulative 3.0 grade point average on a 4.0 scale (as set forth in regulations to be promulgated soon) for the first academic year.
Alabama's Promise
The Jack Kent Cooke Foundation Award recently awarded The University of Alabama a $1 million grant to develop a community college advising program to help low income students in the Black Belt and Appalachia transfer to and graduate from four year institutions. Building on this initiative, The University of Alabama proposes a new need-based financial aid program, Alabama's Promise, to compliment this important work.</p>
<p>UA will guarantee financial aid covering tuition and fees to community college transfers who:</p>
<p>Graduate from high school in Alabama;
Earn the Associate in Art or Associate in Science Degree with a cumulative grade point average of 3.0 from a community college in Alabama or complete at least 45 hours of general education requirements with a 3.0 QPA;
Transfer from the Alabama community college in good standing;
Are 25 years of age or younger;
Have a family income of $35,000 or less;
Complete the FAFSA qualifying for a full Pell Grant.
Students receiving financial support from Alabama's Promise will be expected to enroll in 15 hours required for the degree each semester and to remain in good academic standing. The financial support will normally be provided for four semesters. On a case by case basis, students may receive financial support for two additional semesters if the plan of study requires more than 120 hours and the student is taking the required load and making progress toward the degree.</p>
<p>National Science and Mathematics Access to Retain Talent Grant Program (SMART)
An eligible student may receive a National SMART Grant of $4,000 for each of the third and fourth academic years of study. To be eligible for each academic year, a student must: </p>
<p>Be a U.S. citizen;
Be a Federal Pell Grant recipient;
Be enrolled full-time in a degree program;
Be enrolled in a four-year degree-granting institution;
Major in physical, life or computer science, engineering, mathematics, technology, or a critical foreign language; and
Have at least a cumulative 3.0 grade point average on a 4.0 scale in the coursework required for the student's major.</p>
<p>There is money available for Alabama's poorest students...</p>
<p>University of Alabama is not unusual among its peers of flagship state schools. Despite the Pell and other programs for financial aid, few kids get their need fully met. I believe less than 20%. This is the situation at most flagship state schools, something that is an issue. It means that many kids who are accepted to the university; ie make the standards for admissions cannot go purely for monetary reasons. This is the situation for most universities in this country. Few colleges give 100% of need. </p>
<p>For those kids who do not have the money to go away to college, the alternative is to commute and go to a local , affordable program, maybe part time. Or look for a school that is not as well known, who just might come up with a full ride.</p>
<p>i guess it is all relative to one's perspective/need. I really appreciate ua's program for merit, as that is the position we find ourselves in (dont qualify for financial aid.. with a son who would qualify for merit) while others will be upset with ua not providing enough aid for financial aid. so therefore i get upset with schools that offer no merit but guarantee financial need. why should 2 equally qualified candidates at an ivy be treated differently based on what their parents make? there is alot less merit aid available to students at schools like vandy, duke, etc than financial need aid available. Obviously the system of financial aid has inequities based on how you look at the system. But i guess we should all be thankful for whatever is available.</p>
<p>Parent56--private schools can choose to offer aid as they see fit; which probably explains why "pure" merit aid is relatively low (or almost non-existent)at privates. Private schools have made the decision to offer financial aid (in the form of merit aid in some cases) so as to increase the diversity at their schools. I have always maintained that "pure" merit aid rarely exists any more; private schools like Vandy, Duke, Ivy's can and do allocate their funds as they wish! Have to agree with JL50 about the notion of obtaining a free college ed at the school of choice, as well. There is a huge group of hard working, middle class families that do not qualify for fin aid that are having to help their students make some hard choices regarding a college education simply because they do not qualify for the term "poor". Many of these kids have worked very hard thru school hoping to attend that college of choice only to discover that the "merit" aid is not available because it is tied to the finanical status of the parents. Of course, U of A is a public institution.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse >> University of Alabama is not unusual among its peers of flagship state schools. Despite the Pell and other programs for financial aid, few kids get their need fully met. I believe less than 20%. This is the situation at most flagship state schools, something that is an issue. It means that many kids who are accepted to the university; ie make the standards for admissions cannot go purely for monetary reasons. This is the situation for most universities in this country. Few colleges give 100% of need. </p>
<h2>For those kids who do not have the money to go away to college, the alternative is to commute and go to a local , affordable program, maybe part time. Or look for a school that is not as well known, who just might come up with a full ride. <<<<</h2>
<p>I completely agree. Because a "flagship" is only available for "commuting" by a small percentage of the school's population, the majority of its students must have the means (thru parents, scholarships, F/A, etc) to pay for the living expenses associated with "going away to school." That is why regional state schools exist. Most of the population (not just the poor or the low income) cannot afford tuition, room, board, books, fees, etc. And it simply isn't fair to the middle class and to the working class (who can't send their own kids away to school) to take their tax dollars and give them to low income students whose families pay no income taxes. At least with merit scholarships - EVERYONE - has an equal chance at trying to merit one (they are "need blind"), and your middle class or working class status isn't going to limit your chances. People complain that the "rich" can also get those merit scholarships, but rarely do the "rich" take them. The "rich" tend to send their kids to private colleges or "blue state" publics that don't give merit.</p>
<p>Yes, in a perfect world, we would somehow be able to provide "free rides" to the poor for the flagship of their state WITHOUT using the tax dollars of the working and middle classes who can't afford to send their own kids there. Privates can "do their own thing" about need because they aren't funded with tax dollars. </p>
<p>Many state schools are using the philosophy of "you got to spend a little money to net a lot of money," when implementing their merit scholarships. They are investing what they can in a small number of students and hoping to reap more than they spent - and history tends to support that idea. Having "high stat" students on your campus helps the school in countless ways - to obtain research grants, to hire the best profs, to court businesses to make major donations, etc. </p>
<p>State schools - even the best ones - rarely have anything even approaching the massive endowments that the best privates enjoy. It is those rich endowments that fund their "need blind" schools with generous institutional F/A. State schools simply don't have that kind of money.</p>
<p>States do what they can - they try to provide one or two "flagship" type schools (in Alabama, UA and Auburn are the flagships), PLUS they try to offer a number of regional publics so that those without the means, can live at home and commute. The state of Alabama provides 13 state universities + numerous cc's - considering that it only has a population of less than 6 million people, that is a lot of public universities for a small state. For the sake of comparison, California has a population of nearly 37 million (6 times the population), but it doesn't have 6 times as many state universities.</p>
<p>Some states, such as UMD, and for all I know Alabama may do the same, there are tuition discounts and admissions leeway given for those who live in what are considered underrepresented, economically challenged parts of the state. I don't see this advertised anywhere on the UMD site, so it is something addresses only to those for whom it pertains, This way kids who do not make the SAT standards or other academic standards and who are considered promising candidates get some preference and usually are placed in a program to help them succeed at college. I think this is something all flagships should have, otherwise they become almost 100% the bastion of the middle/upper middle class and above. This is happening already. Schools like UVA and Wm &M, for instance, in VA have many, many students from the DC area. Yes, these kids are the best in terms of preparation but much of that preparation is bought and/or provided by parents, something backwoods kids are not going to have. It is not just that these kids are being cheated out of their flagship schools but the schools, too are not getting this representation of their state.</p>
<p>I remember when I was in Chicago, the daughter of my child caretaker was accepted to University of Illinois UC. There was no way, even with full govt financial aid available and a small grant, that the family could afford to send her away to school. The deal killer was the room/board and other expenses. She was guaranteed her part time employment in the Chicago area, and could live for little with her mother. She regretfully had to give up her dream of going away to school and commuted instead. Bright girl, could have been quite an asset to the flagship uni, and it would have benefitted her to get out of her home environment and meet different people. Instead she pretty much just extended her Chicagoland circle and married someone local to her which is the usual. One of the great things about sending a kid away to school is that it does widen their horizons. Those who stay home and commute often stay put. College is that time to really explore other areas.</p>
<p>^^^^ yes... UA has recently instituted the below for disadvantaged kids from "poor areas" who transfer from their hometown cc. (The cc's are another great route for low-income students. They can finish their degrees at one of the state's colleges).</p>
<p>Alabama's Promise
The Jack Kent Cooke Foundation Award recently awarded The University of Alabama a $1 million grant to develop a community college advising program to help low income students in the Black Belt and Appalachia transfer to and graduate from four year institutions. </p>
<p>Building on this initiative, The University of Alabama proposes a new need-based financial aid program, Alabama's Promise, to compliment this important work.</p>
<p>I know that many popular flagships (and possibly the other states' schools) are limited to how many oos students they can accept so that the states' own students can attend such schools as UFL, UVa, UNC-Chapel Hill.</p>
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<blockquote> <blockquote> <blockquote> <p>There was no way, even with full govt financial aid available and a small grant, that the family could afford to send her away to school. The deal killer was the room/board and other expenses. <<<<</p> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote>
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<p>That's how it's been for years... When I was in high school, only the most affluent families sent their kids "away". The rest of us simply attended our local state school (some did the cc route first). Did that stop any of us from succeeding? No! Did we feel that the state "let us down"? NO! Did we feel that we were entitled to have the state pay for our room and board? NO!</p>
<p>Yes, going away to school can "expand your horizons" - but no one has the right to have someone else pay for that expansion of your horizon. There are all kinds of things that can expand one's horizon - reading, for one. And for those who stay home and go to school, there is always the opportunity to travel, etc, once one is working and paying for it him/herself.</p>
<p>The big problem with the transfer route from local cc to flagship U is that many of the ccs do not give the most thorough grounding in fundamental courses which kids at the flagship U will get. I have seen this happen too many times. My H's family is an example of this. They are in Delaware where just about the only choice is UD or the ccs if you want to pay in state tuition. The ccs have a low % of success in kids making that transition. All of the cousins had to bail when they went into junior year at UD as their preparation was inadequate at the ccs. Kids who were honor students in subjects at the cc were not in step for the phase of the subject. I understand this is a problem for many ccs. California supposed to be great in making sure their CC have courses that prepare kids for the step up to UC level if they can do well in their CC. </p>
<p>It has been this way for years. Also, the top private schools were pretty much only for those with money and contacts. Now things have opened up a lot more. Hopefully the state schools do the same at a greater rate. At the same time I'd like to see the state flagships become the best schools in the country and the most desirable rather than the privates. Again, California has done well that way. NY tried to do what CA did, but has not been successful as yet. Not even close.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse... >>> The big problem with the transfer route from local cc to flagship U is that many of the ccs do not give the most thorough grounding in fundamental courses which kids at the flagship U will get. I have seen this happen too many times. My H's family is an example of this. They are in Delaware where just about the only choice is UD or the ccs if you want to pay in state tuition. The ccs have a low % of success in kids making that transition. All of the cousins had to bail when they went into junior year at UD as their preparation was inadequate at the ccs. Kids who were honor students in subjects at the cc were not in step for the phase of the subject. I understand this is a problem for many ccs. California supposed to be great in making sure their CC have courses that prepare kids for the step up to UC level if they can do well in their CC. <<<<</p>
<p>You make a good point. My only experience with the CC system is in Calif. I didn't use it myself, but I've known many to successfully go from a Calif cc to a UC or Cal State. </p>
<p>It is a real failure if a state does NOT control the quality of its cc's so that its students can succeed at one of its state schools. I can understand if a cc has "two tracks" then both tracks would not need to prepare for a "4 year". But, all cc's should have one track that has gen ed required courses that are strong enough that its students have a smooth transition to a "4 year".</p>
<p>What I don't understand is this.... my kids have managed to fulfill most of their Gen Ed req'ts with AP courses. If a high school can teach "gen ed" courses (thru the AP or IB program) and do it well enough that the students do well at their universities, then why can't the cc's do that, too - with older students - no less????? There is just NO excuse for this.</p>
<p>Delaware also only has 1 CC and 2 universities (but most upstaters would rather attend the CC than DSU). Not a whole lot of choice. And I've heard that the CC is easier than honors classes at my HS.</p>