New Book With ND In It (Not Flattering)

<p>Here is an article that describes a new book that is coming out. It is something I really recommend you all read because you are looking at applying to many of these schools, including ND. <a href="http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/09/05/admit%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2006/09/05/admit&lt;/a> While some of the stuff the author found seems interesting, it also seems like he was on a bit of a witch hunt. The book is about admissions and the benefits the "rich" get. </p>

<p>The auther asserts that Notre Dame fills 25% of its class full of legacies because they are more likely to be wealthy and give to the University, clearly showing that money is more important than all other factors including diversity. I thought Dan Saracino did an excellent job of countering and I think anyone at ND would understand that there are much greater forces at work than just money. The ND family is so stressed that admissions virtually has to do something special for alumni kids, and it is something that has been in our history so long that it will never change.</p>

<p>I am still torn on legacy; I hated it when I was applying (I know a legacy who had the same stats as me who was accepted whereas I was rejected and had to transfer) but I am coming around to it now because I am selfish and want the best for my kids :). </p>

<p>What do you think, is legacy good or bad? Is the author right and it is just about money? How about the other schools and their practices?</p>

<p>If legacy were all about the money, my son would not be part of the Class of 2009. In fact, were it not for the U.S. Navy, which pays his tuition as an ROTC student, my son would not be part of the Class of 2009. </p>

<p>I am part of the little-known group called Screaming Edge of Broke Domers, having chosen to use a lot of time time and talent in volunteer positions in my parish and community. We have a roof over our head and live a middle class lifestyle, and that's about it. In other words, we won't be donating a wing.</p>

<p>I graduated from ND in 1984 (which will put me on the same Reunion cycle with my son, thereby enabling me to prove that I really am cool after all, as were all my friends <g>). I was, by the way, not a legacy, either. What I've come to conclude is that the legacy factor is not about cash, but about family appreciation for a place different than any other.</g></p>

<p>We're the broke Domers who stay in the dorms for a week in the summer because it is a cheap vacation. My son got in. There is another family in our community that is absurdly wealthy and quite prolific in sharing it with the university. Their son did not get in. My son also scored a 34 on his ACT and had a "chances"-type list as long as any I've seen. Sort of ticks him off, in fact, when it's implied he got in on his mother's coattails. (Not so much, though, that he's not happy to be there.)</p>

<p>As I see it, there are two main things admissions is trying to determine. One, does the applicant meet the basic criteria to be deemed capable of handling the university workload and making it on campus. The admissions office itself will tell you there are many, many applicants turned away who are capable of being ND students. In a situation like that, where there is an abundance of high quality applicants, Notre Dame, like other elite universities, has the luxury of of applying even more criteria. Some schools, like Harvard, strive for diversity of race, ethnicity, religion, geographic, demographic, etc.</p>

<p>Notre Dame, I think, strives to find students who will, to steal an old political buzz phrase "get it." There is more to the place than its academics or football. There is a mission to the university that pulsates through its very being, one that includes, but is not limited to, its uniquely Catholic identity. Legacies are simply kids who have grown up with more insight into what Notre Dame is and what it means than people who have not had such exposure.</p>

<p>In our case, my daughter, now a hs senior, also wants to go to ND. I'm not super keen on her being so far away. I have no idea how on earth we'll pay for it, if she gets in. She has a strong profile and is a good candidate for admission, but there are other universities which are willing to make it an easy financial decision for us. And yet, knowing now that she genuinely wants this from her life, I want it for her. Because I know what is up there; I know what values form the undercurrent of Notre Dame. They mesh with hers, and with ours. I will not go into the details, but the caring concern shown by the priests in my son's dorm when my father-in-law died and he couldn't get back for the funeral was amazing. The role of faith is open there.
It's the kind of environment I want my kids to be in, and I say that with my eyes open to all aspects of the place, warts and all.</p>

<p>The more legacies are part of the incoming class (they don't lower the standards for them, just give them the benefit of the doubt in tie-breaker situations), the more likely the mission and value set of the university will continue and prosper from generation to generation in an increasingly secular world; one in which most Catholic universities have long since shed their religious identities.</p>

<p>There are always critics out there, wanting to take a whack at the Dome. I disregard them. My guess is that, were I to talk at length with any of these people who right such things, I'd find that the viewpoint of what ND is would be just one of many areas of polite disagreements. Notre Dame meshes with my values and my family's values.</p>

<p>While I agree on the whole, there is one statement I disagree with. Legacies honestly get more of a boost than just tie breaker at Notre Dame...tie breaker is what the Ivy's do. However, I can think of many examples where it is clear that it is more than that.</p>

<p>That being said I don't think that is a bad thing because ND is different, and they are making themselves different with things like how we treat legacy. I don't think it is a bad thing though I do reject the idea that legacies are somehow lower academically. In a class I can't tell you who is a legacy and who isn't and I know that admissions wouldn't accept them if they couldn't handle it.</p>

<p>Overall though, I agree with most everything other than the tie-breaker comment. We can talk about that though, lol. I do hope your daughter gets in and I hope they are generous with aid. You never know, keep your fingers crossed!</p>

<p>Thanks, Irish. I've posted her stats online before, and think she's got a very good chance of getting in. Not to say I don't love my son, but she is my only daughter and we are very close. Notre Dame is the only place I can think of that I would be willing to have her that far away--and that is a conclusion I had to evolve to reach, because it is obvious that's what she wants. As per the money? Who knows?</p>

<p>We are a tight family, and I feel better knowing that if she does go up there, her brother is up there. And if they drive home together, she will nag him to drive safely and obey the speed limits the entire journey, similar to how it was when he drove her to high school every morning for two years! In other words, they'll bicker like hell, but be very close and have each other's backs :)</p>

<p>Sounds a lot like my sister and I :).</p>

<p>She had some great senior portraits taken and wants to send one up to him to put up in his room. He has already told me he will not put him up there and subject himself to the kind of talk he's been hearing since last February when she came to visit. I have thought it is best not to ask what guys say in their locker room--er, dorm--about my daughter. He wants to use the Navy scary guy thing on any guy who might choose to date her. She wants to make sure she gets to Fisher Hall a lot, should she happen to get accepted and go to ND, and date one of the guys just to get a rise out of him.... Just like the old days, when they used to practically break one another's arms digging deep into the cereal box to wrestle away the free toy...</p>

<p>Ain't nothing like the sibling relationship :)</p>

<p>Guys wouldn't really say lewd things about someone's sister who came up to visit, would they? Not Domers, surely?</p>

<p>Honestly, depends on the guys. I would hope not and my friends wouldn't, but then again you should see me and my friends. Speaking of which, is your son in Fisher? Perhaps I completely missed this but it sounds like it. I am in Fisher as well so I am curious.</p>