New college parent overly concerned?

Parents Forum
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<p>My D is a college freshman. I thought she'd be able to do the work but might have a hard time socially, but the opposite is true. Her calls home are effusive about the great times she's having--going to dinner, watching football games, getting to know the city.</p>

<p>But--beginning in early Oct, the calls included casual references to bombing tests that were "impossibly hard--I studied but there's no way anyone could do well." Worse, she's pulled at least 4 all-nighters writing short essays or short papers. And she's told me that she's walking from the library late at night without an escort, even though I'd exacted a promise from her never to do that. Finally--and I hate to admit this--she even emailed me an essay to ask if it was any good. (I should have said, that's not my job, but she was a mess and I just read it and tried to encourage her.)</p>

<p>She is a great kid, but was a procrastinator in h.s. But now she's in a really tough school and I feel like saying, "this is a privilege! Do you realize how many kids would love the chance to take advantage of this?" or "We're not paying for anything but As and Bs".</p>

<p>She's home on break this weekend. I have to talk with her about this, but can only imagine her saying that she's fine, no she doesn't need to talk with her faculty advisor...</p>

<p>Is this typical of freshma (so that I should leave her to pull out of what looks like a nose dive)? If not, what would you do? Thanks.</p>

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<p>Come on pro's . I don't have the right stuff to help this newbie. My kid is a year away from a similar call. This kid is crying out for help. That is what we call setting up the parents for the "fall". But, I'll just say to you that someone here has had this happen, too and they'll be along shortly to help you muddle through. </p>

<p>My one piece of advice would be to ditch the "a's" and "b's" line or if you do use it, sleep with the light on and a knife under the pillow.;)</p>

<p>Oh, and welcome to CC. I'm curmudgeon.</p>

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<p>What you're describing is typical of freshmen who are having a great social life, but who aren't keeping up with their coursework.</p>

<p>I'd tell her that if she's bombing tests and having problems with essays, she needs to talk to her professors and use the campus tutoring center. </p>

<p>I'd also make sure that she knows that I would have to see her report cards in order to continue paying tuition. FYI: Parents have no automatic right to see report cards under the Federal Privacy Act. Consequently, unless you tie your financial support to seeing her report card, you may not see it.</p>

<p>I also strongly suggest that you set gpa level that she needs to achieve for you to continue paying for her college. Let her know now so it won't be a surprise. This may inspire her to do the things that you know are necessary for her to pass. If they don't, at least you won't throw away more money for her to continue socializing and not studying. </p>

<p>If she's not studying and gets bad grades, it would be IMO a mistake to keep supporting her in that college. Not every smart high school graduate is ready to go away to college. Some need to take time off or live at home and go to college in order to academically succeed.</p>

<p>One last thing: With the competition now to get into college, it's unlikely that she's incapable of keeping up academically at the college that accepted her. My guess is that she's continuing her procrastinating ways, skipping class, not keeping up with her reading, and probably socializing late at night, and therefore she's bombing exams. In addition, she's not using the study resources on campus. All indicate to me that if her grades end up being bad, she needs to be in a more structured environment or she needs to take time off so she can mature.</p>

<p>I do think it's too late and is unreasonable to say "All As and Bs." Lots of highly motivated students are overwhelmed first semester of freshmen year and therefore get some Cs. To me, it's reasonable to say, "Nothing less than a 2.0 freshman year." From what you've described, she'll probably have to work very hard now to catch up and get that average.</p>

<p>Incidentally, BTDT with my older son. I wish that we'd set the kind of guidelines that I'm suggesting that you set with your D.</p>

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<p>I agree with Curmudgeon, don't tell her you are only paying for As and Bs. That is kind of harsh.</p>

<p>It sounds like she is trying......she may just be in over her head..... </p>

<p>Many kids procrastinate in high school and still do reasonably well. She is quickly learning that this is not the case in college.</p>

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<p>It may also depend on the type of school. My Ds attend a top publics with a general rule of 15% As, in classes where almost all the students were straight As in high school. We are both encouraging my D not to go crazy if she does not always get an A, yet also encouraging her to go to office hours and do everything in her power to be one of the ones earning As (she wants this) in order to keep HER options open for HER future. I actually do not ask to see my Ds grade cards, they are adults, as long as they are passing, on track, earning a diploma on time, I am supportive. They do not usually bother to show me their report card, but they talk about the classes throughout the term and will sometimes email for our input :) We have made it clear that we will support 4 years and then they are on their own. If they mess around, then they seriously limit grad school options, I guess it is just time to be grown-ups and be responsible. So far, so good, but theit have been some toughies along the way (Ochem, any one!)</p>

<p>With my oldest, it simply would not have been good to be too demanding, she not have responded well. That being said, if she got a C- or below she would have needed to repeat the class, so she had her own motivation to succeed and is on track to graduate in 4 years.</p>

<p>If your D is at a Princeton/Harvard type school where the school believes all students can attain mastery, then a low grade is more significant, as it would be unusual.</p>

<p>You will glean great ideas and thoughts from the wonderful folks here, then you merely have to figure out which pertain to your D.</p>

<p>The scary thing about them being off on their own, is that the really are making their own mistakes and will suffer the consequences. I found my sanity regained when I relalised I could solve none of the problems, but only would be helpful as a sounding board, reflecting back to my D my comments on her thoughts, trying to give guidance.</p>

<p>Good luck! You care, that's great for your girl, she is probably scared and even testing it out by saying some of these things out loud to you.</p>

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<p>Hi JuneBug - well, it certainly sounds as tho she is having a good time at school - and that right there may be her biggest problem. It is very common for freshmen to somewhat overdo the social stuff - they are away from home and on their own for the first time - kinda spreading their wings - sometimes a bit too much.</p>

<p>She has been accepted to the school based on her abilities - and now she needs to buckle down and change some of her priorities - ie - study first then do the social stuff - she really needs to find that balance - take advantage of the schools resources, etc.....</p>

<p>Many a student has somewhat fallen on their faces first semester - it is truly a learning curve - how to manage it ALL - for the first time in their lives they are living this free life - and tend to not make the choices that they really do need to make - set priorities - follow thru with them and use good judgement - with you letting her know exactly what your expectations are.</p>

<p>If she is a procrastinator - she is really going to have to learn to take responsibility for her school work - and not to cram as she goes - but to really pin down some better study habits - and yes - that means saying NO to you reviewing her essay's - gotta put your foot down someplace in this - she is now responsible for herself and how she manages her time accordingly.</p>

<p>If she is home this weekend - this would be a real good time to set down with her to have ''the talk'' - set some realistic limits NOW - let her know where you and she stands on these issues - nip things in the but - and don't let her say - everything is OK - ahemmmm cuz obviously it is not. (we actually told kiddo - an F = home!!) - so put the buc back in her lap NOW - let her know exactly what the repercussions are NOW!!!</p>

<p>Since our kiddo is on our dime - yup - we do want to see grades - it is expected in our house - and that has also been a good incentive at times - knowing there is no way to hide at the end of the semester. Has worked pretty well for us - tho as time goes on - not as demanding about it - now it is offered to us - quite easily.</p>

<p>There are many adjustments for 1st year students - but with guidance and support these kids can get settled down to the task at hand - their education - it is ok to be social as long as it is put into the right perspective - and she needs to understand that - support good judgement - we all have the ability to make the needed changes in our lives in order to be successful at things - she has that capability as well.</p>

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<p>My son thinks that having a job helps him with time management."I have to get up early and get cracking," he says. He doesn't have to work. His scholarship pays him not to work. But it seems to be a very big deal for him. I will tell you all later how the grades went!</p>

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<p>Wow. Thank you, all of you, for taking the time to give me your advice. I feel so much more clear-headed about how to view this and what to do: set realistic expectations and tell her what they are. Be that sounding board and help her to get the help she needs on campus. And understand that this is really something she has to learn to do and grow into.</p>

<p>I'll keep checking this and other postings. Again, I am very grateful to you.</p>

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<p>I like that your D can speak to you about her great social life and her not so great academic performance. It's important not to close off that line of communication by being harsh or threatening.
I would not link financial support to specific grades. But your D, already a procrastinator, seems to have time-management problems. In other words, her social life is interfering with her school work. She needs to re-orient her priorities. Students should not have to pull all-nighters unless they are night-owls.
Was the essay she sent you to look at any good? If it was not, she needs help figuring out the quality expected of students. Suggest that she ask the prof if she can send in a first draft (but if she procrastinates, she won't have this option). Tell her to go to the writing center for feedback on her draft. She may also have problems handling significantly greater amounts of reading materials than she had in high school. Perhaps, a trip to an office specifically designed to help with study skills is in order.
For many students who spent the first couple of months in college reveling in the social scene and enjoying their new freedom, midterms are a wake-up call. This is why, by the way, Parents weekends are scheduled around this time of the year, so that parents and students can take stock. And that seems exactly what you and your D are about to do. Good luck to both of you!</p>

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<p>I was caught by the line that you expected her to do well academically and not necessarily socially. Is that because she was that way in high school? If so, the expanded social life might be something new and desirable to her, after feeling on the side-lines for awhile. And it may be something she just has to go through, till the luster wears off. </p>

<p>You sound like you have a clear line of communication, and a willingness to let her feel her wings a bit. If she was an academic achiever before, she probably feels some pride in that identity. And probably understands the expectations you have for her. I am betting she will eventually not want to disappoint you, and will find a balance on her own (maybe with a few hints from the "parental unit" - as my S calls us). </p>

<p>And welcome!</p>

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<p>Learning their limitations is probably the most important thing first-semester freshmen need to do, and your d may well have started to realize this already. The first months away from home are fairly overwhelming for most kids (even paragons of organization!), and procrastinators or less-motivated kids will find it even more challenging. And, of course, the workload in college IS intense, and the hour or two many kids would spend studying for a test in high school to get the expected A is going to be woefully inadequate now.</p>

<p>Kudos to you for having an open relationship with your student and for deciding to broach this subject. I agree with those who say that it's not realistic at this point to expect all As and Bs (and it may never be, if she's at one of those dreaded grade-deflating schools). I do believe you have the right to see her transcript if you're paying for her education, and that it will probably help her to do better academically if she knows she'll be accountable to you.</p>

<p>This may not be an entirely successful semester for her GPA-wise, but she's probably going to learn some invaluable things about herself and what she needs to do to succeed. And that's worth a lot!</p>

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<p>Hi Junebug,</p>

<p>Welcome to CC. It is good to know that your daughter is adjusting socially at school (especially since there was a recent long discussion from parents who could not say the same about thie kids).</p>

<p>Your daughter is learning the hard way that college is not high school. She still has time to turn things around. I am also of the mind set that she has some problems with time managment and being a procrastinator does not help. It is also hard for students who were great students in h.s. to ask for help when they are not achieving the same level of greatness in college. Freshman year is a big adjustment as no one is going to care if you come to class and those that do will just let you reach your limit and eith give you a UW (unofficial withdrawl), WF(withdrawl failing), or straight out fail you.</p>

<p>Remind her that there are resources available to her. She should see her professor during office hours as s/he can give her more insight to her understanding of the course. Most schools have
academic skills centers where they give seminars on time management.
At the academic skils center she can also get information on tutoring , study groups and private tutoring and note taking. There are resource and writing centers where she can take her paper and get feedback (but she cannot procrastinate if she wants to take advantage of these services). </p>

<p>I remember that Mikemac recommended a book What Smart Student Know which covers of the steps you need to follow to really <em>learn</em> the material for all types of classes (sciences, liberal arts, etc)</p>

<p>Originaloog (a college professor and parent poster had given some good tips to pass on to your daughter:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=35568&page=2&pp=20&highlight=notes%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=35568&page=2&pp=20&highlight=notes&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>If your student is stressing over the sheer hours of work he is encountering, i would offer the following recommendations.
1) commit to the 9am-5pm period and do this by trying to schedule a 9am class as many days as possible.
2) do NOT go back to the dorm during the day. There are too many distractions there and the lure of a nap is oftentimes too enticing.
3) Work out a written schedule and stick to it.
4) find a place on campus that is ideally suited for study. It may be the library but most campuses have many other places too. I often found empty classrooms were ideal-quiet, not too comfortable and with lots of room to spread out notes and books. My son has found a lounge in the Carnegie Building which is lightly used.
5) do not study more than 50 minutes straight w/o a break.
6) whenever possibly spend a hour studying a subject immediately following the class or as soon a possible thereafter. I always rewrote my class noted during this period, adding additional information which I had either not written down or recalled reading. The Cornell Note-Taking System is an excellent one to use.
7) since you are on campus, its easy to seek out extra help from professors during their office hours. Keep them posted in your notebook.
8) form study groups, they can be both fun and helpful. I was in one that assembled in the lecture room immediately following our Physics II lecture. The prof was always willing to sit in with us for a while. On the last day of lecture, we snuck in a six pack of Stroh's with some snacks and had an little party with him.
9) make use of class or college resources. Most now have writing and math assistance centers. Rensselaer also has extra evening study sessions for most intro math, science and engineering courses. His Physics I class has a 2 hour block every Tuesday evening for Q&A except on midterm day when it is the exam period for all studio sections, which BTW is tonite!
10) keep ahead of reading assignments. It will help you enormously during class.
11) start research papers and projects immediately, spread the work out and plan on finishing at least two days before it is due.</p>

<p>He also recommended the Cornell note taking system </p>

<p><a href="http://www.rit.edu/%7E369www/college_programs/lng_pwr/ln_cornell_revealed.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.rit.edu/~369www/college_programs/lng_pwr/ln_cornell_revealed.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>hope this helps</p>

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<p>Welcome to CC! Be happy your D feels comfortable with sharing details of her college life--both good and bad--with you! To be accepted into a tough school, your D has already learned the benefits of getting good grades, and that she's been pulling all-nighters demonstrates that she does want to do well.</p>

<p>Perhaps you could ask open-ended questions such as "Is college life (implying both academic and social) anything like you imagined it would be?" or "What are the faculty like and have you met any you especially life?" (to try to identify someone whose counsel she could seek) and going with the responses to drill down more deeply. Also, questions about the content of courses and the learning process she's experiencing instead of about the end result might help her identify ways to manage her time better. It could be as simple as making a list and prioritizing the items, or making a schedule and planning ahead.</p>

<p>Your D is a smart kid--she knows that you listen to her and hears what she says, and that she can expect good advice from you.</p>

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<p>I'll just add that "all-nighters" are not uncommon, even among those students who don't procrastinate. Sometimes there is just too much to do and not enough time - and sometimes students prefer the focused and uninterrupted block of time an all-nighter provides.</p>

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<p>Time management sounds like the key here; if your D was a procrastinator in high school she may well have asumed that she could also put off essays and other assignments in college too. But because there may be more reading, higher expectations on the part of professors, and perhaps most of all because she is also enjoyiing college social life and using what would have been study time socializing more than she did in high school, it isn't working. That is something she may come to realize on her own quite soon, adn certainyl is worth talking to her about.</p>

<p>Going beyond time management to academic skills: Tutoring centers for specific subjects and writing cetners are pretty common at most schools; they are a first line of defense and can be very helpful. If she is really having trouble with a course, seeing the professor is another obvious step; he or she may be able to suggest strategies for mastering a concept, helpful background reading, whatever.... Studying hard for a test that turns out to be really difficult is frustrating and can mean several things: the studying may not have been has focused and purposeful as your D thought; she may have had some underlying misunderstanding of the mterial that compromised her perfprmance; or it may indeed have been an unfair test. But to say "nobody could do well" is probably not a good approach (thought it is sometimes true) and suggests a need to address the overall academic issue in ways that previous posters have outlined.</p>

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<p>In addition to all the other helpful suggestions, I would add the following:</p>

<p>Pick your battles. Don't get bogged in the details of whether she pulls an allnighter, walks from the library without an escort (I know it scares you, but you can't control it anyway). Focus only on the result you want - a successful academic career, with a balanced life.</p>

<p>Have her sign the privacy release re grades. We required that of S - I told him, "here's the release the school sends so we see your grades. You don't have to sign it. It's optional. Of course, if we're the ones paying tuition....." He signed it readily. </p>

<p>Find out where she thinks her current grades are trending. Help her set a reasonable goal for this term, a reasonable (presumably higher) goal for next term when she will be starting fresh(er) and that minimum acceptable GPA for your financial support at this school.</p>

<p>Let her know that your perspective is not one of "clamping down" but of "providing support" and that you are truly grateful that she shares her happinesses and her concerns with you.</p>

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<p>Two more thoughts: your D may have started having academic difficulties in October becuase that's when the first round of tests and papers came along and she may not have been doing the reading and other preparation during the early weeks of school that would have laid the groundwork for October sucess. (This would compound the chronic time management issue discussed earlier.)</p>

<p>And although I agree with jmmom that you need to pick your battles, the isue of walking home from the library alone late at night might be one worth talking about, depending on where the school is and what kind of safety issues there are on campus and near campus. Your D may simply be doing what everyone is doing in what is actually a very safe environment; or she may be taking a risk in a place where there have been incidents. So only pursue it if safety rather than motherly concern is the issue (my D does the same thing, but it's the norm at her school and we don't discuss it anymore).</p>

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<p>Welcome to CC, Junebug.</p>

<p>Agree with jmmom - especially the pick your battles.</p>

<p>It's great that the communication is there with your D. If it stops, then I would be concerned. Be there to lend an ear - and advice, if she asks for it.</p>

<p>Allnighters, walking across campus - she isn't the only one doing this. </p>

<p>My oldest S (graduated in May) started his freshman year the same way. Very social, less focused and procrastinated to a 2.25 the first semester. He seldom studied in HS, everything was easy. He didn't want to admit he needed help in getting organized. He was a 3 sport athlete in HS, so he had the time management skills then but when he went to college he only played 1 sport (spring) which left unstructured time. Eventually he was able to get it together and graduated with a 3.04 but still is reminded if he had his act together in freshman year that 2.25 wouldn't have killed his overall GPA. The school had a wonderful student center/tutoring and athletes had to go to organized study hall based on their gpa - S had many hours at first.</p>

<p>We also put the student loan in his name - telling him that if having a good time in college was more important than studying, the bill was on him. Party on Dude. He pulled it together and we are paying the bill, no problems.</p>

<p>S2 is a sophomore and was the complete opposite of brother. Not outwardly social, very studious, but has finally broken out of his shell this year..</p>

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<p>Hi Junebug, you have found the greatest college resource here with the CC gurus.
I am more of a lurker than poster, but thought this might be helpful.
Muhlenberg college discussed these transitional issues during a seminar for parents.
They mentioned THE RED ZONE, the first three weeks of college when kids "are really free and having lots of fun".
THE RED ZONE ends they said by mid Oct when the "party ends" and the papers, tests, and mid terms get graded.</p>

<p>Sounds like daughter is at that point, and all sounds NORMAL and not uncommon.</p>

<p>As others said can do the work, (or would not have accepted) she needs to buckle down.
M,m,m,m, been there , done that myself decades ago : )</p>

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<p>"My son thinks that having a job helps him with time management."I have to get up early and get cracking," he says. He doesn't have to work. His scholarship pays him not to work. But it seems to be a very big deal for him."</p>

<p>This was true for me, and continues to be true for me. I am a procrastinator and have ADD. The more I have on my plate, the more organized I am and the better I do with all of my tasks. The year that I did not work in college was when I ended up on academic probation because of sleeping too late, staying up too late and too much partying.</p>

<p>After that, I worked. This system worked well for me -- even helped me get my doctorate.</p>