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<p>The fault lies with the drinking age. There is not much a parent can do about the actions of their adult offspring. They are not “kids.”</p>
<p>I found BU’s approach very logical. At orientation, the presentations to the parents alone focused on the pure financial cost of drinking with an extremely effective short video showing things like cost of copayment at hospital, cost of bail, cost of ticket for Drunkenness, etc. Result: the smart parents in the audience made sure their kids understood that these costs were known, and they understood they were theirs alone. They also made a really good point that often it is not the drinking that is the biggest problem but the decisions made while drinking: these often have a much longer effect, sometimes tragically. they did several separate things with the students, including warning them about the zero tolerance policy in the dorm, etc. I actually asked my dd tonight about this thread. she said that she seldom sees anyone drunk in the dorms or even on campus, but she does see people on Commonweath Avenue, which is the main drag through the Back Bay of Boston and is shared by a number of campuses as well as the general citizens. So yes, I think campus attitudes can make a difference, and campus messages can stick. She also believes that colleges like BU where there are plenty of non drinking options have a much easier time than isolated campuses in more rural areas.</p>
<p>Not congratulating myself at all, just making the point that making a real issue of alcohol quite often leads to the opposite reaction intended. I tried not to make an issue of it, and it appears that we have been ok for now. I do not pretend to think this makes us great in any other respects but I know many of DD’s friends who have parents who have made such an issue of not drinking that it has become the forbidden fruit, including my own niece, who at 25 sneaks drinking because her father forbids it. Oldfort - agree with you.</p>
<p>I don’t understand a lot of your “arguments” but did want to chime in that the idea many people have of college drinking in the 21st century: that it’s a rite of passage, that it’s not that bad, that it’s a result of overly restricted upbringings, is simply not supported by anecdotal evidence or studies. I also think many people have a naive, charming, Animal House picture of college alcohol abuse when the reality is so much worse. The things we see in a college town, on a regular basis, are mind-boggling. It is much worse than even 10 years ago, measured in most any way. (frequency, degree, consequences) Nobody thinks their daughter is the one lying in a ditch at 4 in the afternoon, nobody thinks their son is the one who staggers past her, nobody thinks their own use of alcohol at tailgates and parties sets a certain standard or level of acceptance ---- but these kids aren’t left on college doorsteps by fairies 
I see parents all the time who are SURE their student uses “responsibly” but I think your sons and daughters would shock a lot of you. And if you don’t believe that, go check out the FB group for PSU’s State Patty’s Day, or read the news on Feb 26. Thousands of students endorsing a holiday that exists to overdrink. I assume their parents think they taught those students “responsible” drinking, too.</p>
<p>Following up to Greenbutton, this is as good a place as any to post a link to the This American Life story about Penn State. It certainly confirms Greenbutton’s perspective.
[#1</a> Party School | This American Life](<a href=“http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/396/1-party-school]#1”>http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/396/1-party-school)</p>
<p>I live in the UK, which has a lower drinking age. Please do NOT confuse it with mainland Europe (which has a VERY different culture!). There is a lot of soul searching going on here at the moment as the financial and social costs of drinking are being increasingly felt. The British have always drunk a lot (Gin alley from the 1700s anyone?) but the way in which people drink has changed for the worse over the past 10-15 years…</p>
<p>1) Feminisation of drinking - there has been a proleferation of ‘female friendly’ bars over this time period, with soft furnishings, serving wine, nice lighting… a far cry from the typical pub. This has encouraged more women to drink outside the home…The wine is also served in huge amounts, so one large glass can equal almost half a bottle…</p>
<p>2) Public drunkenness is no longer as shameful for men - or women… it’s actually seen as a badge of honor for women. It is called the rise of the lad-ette (‘lad’ being a guy)</p>
<p>3) The recession has led to a rise in pre gaming on drinks bought in supermarkets at a vast discount - in fact, some supermarkets were selling alcohol at a loss! People are tending to get drunk at home before going out as it is cheaper</p>
<p>4) In order to combat the decline of town centers v out of town malls, local councils offered incentives to pub chains to open in town centers… combined with the relaxation of the licensing laws, this means you now have a row of pubs, all open until the small hours, serving alcohol all day. They also use methods such as removing all the seating, turning up the music to nightclub levels, to encourage people to drink more. If you are standing up, and can’t talk, you will take more sips from your drink…</p>
<p>5) Free health care means that there are no directly felt financial consequences from being hospitalized due to drinking…</p>
<p>6) My personal view - I think that the UK is very much a ‘post religious’ society, where a decline in church attendance by the majority has left a spiritual void. The very basis on which British society is based, particularly the welfare state, is being eroded. This void is being filled with drinking, eating (UK is the fattest nation in Europe) and shopping… </p>
<p>And all of this applies to people of all ages, not just college students…</p>
<p>I don’t think there is any doubt that there has been a change in drinking culture since the 70s. I don’t recall EVER hearing of a case of alcohol poisoning. Although plenty of people certainly got drunk, it was usually not completely on purpose, and definitely not because they did 10 shots of vodka in their room with friends before going out for the night. (Fact associated with a sexual assault case discussed on CC.) “Pregaming” wasn’t done because you could legally have a drink when you went out. </p>
<p>Definitely there was more pot smoking. Sitting around smoking pot, listening to music, and playing bridge is a pretty harmless activity, the most negative consequence of which is likely to be a bad case of the munchies and weight gain.</p>
<p>Perhaps it was different at big football schools.</p>
<p>And I agree that lowering the drinking age will not change college drinking. It might make it safer, as it will be done in bars, with drinks served in measures, with staff around. You won’t get in trouble for taking a friend home who is drunk etc</p>
<p>But those things I mentioned above: the lower cost of drinking at home, the lack of stigma of being really really drunk (esp as a woman), will mean that students will pre game and drink a lot, even if the age is lowered</p>
<p>In the UK, the drinking age is 18 and there is a LOT of drinking at universities, in fact it is almost part of going to college here. One ice breaker event on my study abroad year here was a ‘Three Legged Pub Crawl’ !</p>
<p>BTW, above someone asked if parents cared that underage drinking was illegal.</p>
<p>I’ll bite. I regard the current legal status of an activity as relevant mostly–perhaps only-- to the practicality of engaging in it, not to the ethics (or wisdom, other than the risk of arrest) of engaging in it. It was at one time legal in this country to own slaves. It was illegal to marry a person of another race. IMHO, the first was unethical, the second was not. It was legal to take laudanum, which was clearly unwise, although not unethical. It is legal in some states to execute someone and in other places not, and this has varied with time within even a given state. IMHO, it cannot be “right” to execute someone in one state and “wrong” in another, or from one day to the next. These are only the most obvious sort of examples.</p>
<p>I think it is generally a good thing to be law abiding, and I am certainly not advocating ignoring them wholesale. But the on the list of reasons not to binge drink, there are many that outrank legality.</p>
<p>^^but on the list of reasons not to abuse alcohol in college, I think legality is a consideration, not to mention the risk of injury. Both of those (arrest, and injury) put the considerable financial investment someone has made in a student’s education at risk, if not downright flushes the investment down the drain. What school is going to hire a new elementary ed major with a DUI, assault,etc… conviction?? Many students, once they start drinking, have trouble making good choices. Regardless of the drinking age, that is going to be true, but if you can say to your student “if you get arrested or charged, you are footing the bill” it might keep them from starting. Certainly a complicated issue. I can’ t begin to tell you how heartwrenching it is to see the students who abuse alcohol continue to devalue the diplomas of the many amazing and dedicated students at Penn State (referencing the This American Life piece; PSU is now #4 or #5 party school).</p>
<p>Alcohol is cheap, most students are on a budget. Drinking is not only accepted as a social norm but to watch shows like, “Jersey Shore” it’s glamorized. Miley Cyrus takes bong hits and admits to “smoking a lot of effing weed” at her own birthday party and we wonder where the “it’s no big deal” attitude comes from. The message that it’s OK to drink or smoke weed is everywhere. My own neice has red solo cups in all of her college pictures and she doesn’t turn 21 for another year. I know they aren’t drinking Pepsi. Go to tumblr and do a search for weed and look at all of the pictures kids post of themselves taking bong hits. It’s becoming a very mainstream image. Kids are desensitized to the image of someone binge drinking or smoking pot. It’s just not a big deal to them.</p>
<p>Something that’s been interesting/strange to me for years - alcohol consumption/possession is the only “crime” where an adult can be convicted for being the wrong age. This is selective prohibition for a segment of the adult population.</p>
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<p>Sorry, the statistics do not agree with you. As others have pointed out, college students have been drinking heavily for a very long time.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.monitoringthefuture.org/pubs/monographs/mtf-vol2_2010.pdf[/url]”>http://www.monitoringthefuture.org/pubs/monographs/mtf-vol2_2010.pdf</a></p>
<p>This is research funded by the National Institute on Drug Abuse. In particular, see the charts on pages 306-309. Here is one quote:</p>
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<p>“Bean60, you should suggest to your daughter that she needs to be strong and to refuse to babysit for the other adults living in her dorm.”</p>
<p>This is such an important point that it bears repeating. The problem drinkers are able to impose on other people because other people clean up their literal and figurative mess. When they have to deal with their own consequences, they are a lot less likely to keep engaging in this behavior. This is something both the hallmates and the RA can play a role in. The drunk kid who pukes in the dorm should get a bright-and-early wakeup call from an RA bearing a bucket and mop. That should be the only assistance they receive unless they need medical attention.</p>
<p>greenbutton - do you really think if someone has few drinks, even at age 18, he/she would then be abusing alcohol. I think that´s a huge leap. Your post is making huge assumptions about young adults drinking - making bad judgetment, DUI, assault, conviction…</p>
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<p>The report you cite gives figures going back only to 1979, at least in the written summary portions. (I didn’t make any attempt to delve into the actual data, assuming that it is available.) Note that I was referring to the 70s, not the 90s or even the 80s.</p>
<p>Most of the anecdotal evidence I can cite dates back to the early/mid 70s, a period largely not contained within this study. And I will stand by it, while fully understanding the limitations of anecdotal evidence. Yes, college students drank a lot then. But certain things are indeed different, and had probably become different by the 90s at the latest. The entire concept of pregaming was unknown. I never heard of a person being treated for alcohol poisoning. People vomiting in the hallways of dorms and on the streets was unheard of, much less taken for granted. There was no such thing as a “Good Sam” policy because a need for it was not perceived.</p>
<p>I am in agreement with Consolation. There was no pregaming when I was in college. We could drink whenever we wanted. Now students go out to the woods (when it is freezing because alcohol is not allowed in the dorm) to pregame before going out at night. They take as many shots as possible because they are afraid they wouldn´t be able to get any more later on. How is that good for students? I used to go out a lot in college, some nights I drank and other nights I didn´t because I had work to do. I noticed D1 drank less after she became legal. </p>
<p>I am in no way advocating for no legal drinking age, but to have it at age 21 is not helping with the current drinking problem in college. Cornell banned drinking at frat parties this year after a bad incident. Now it is just moved off campus and underground, which is not as easily controlled by the school, and I guess a lot less liability for the school.</p>
<p>"do you really think if someone has few drinks, even at age 18, he/she would then be abusing alcohol. I think that´s a huge leap. Your post is making huge assumptions about young adults drinking - making bad judgetment, DUI, assault, conviction… "</p>
<p>I think they are breaking the law. If you think the law is dumb, that doesn’t give you the right to endanger me by driving drunk, or annoy me by throwing up on the hood of my car at 6:00 when I’m picking up my son at a church for Scouts. Yes, I am making assumptions. I think that at age 18, too many (certainly not all) people have a drink with all good intentions, and then have another. And another. And another. And then comes the walking into traffic, the getting into fights, the falling down the stairs or off the balcony, the destruction of public property. OR, nothing happens and it validates their feeling that it was a fun night and nothing bad happened. That’s abusing alcohol. I don’t think every young person who drinks abuses it, but it’s not a victimless offense or a harmless one.</p>
<p>Part of a person’s perception of binge drinking comes from where you come from and where you went to school.</p>
<p>I grew up in the rural midwest(late 70’s/early 80’s) and had 60 kids in my high school class. About a third went to college, another third to the military or jobs, other third became alcoholics or drug users, many eventually doing jail/prison time. 4 of them have died from drug overdoses or suicide. Binge drinking was and still is a right of passage in the rural midwest for many 16-18 year old kids. The research data supports this. It often continues into the colleges they attend…the Big 10/12 state flagships. </p>
<p>I occasionally visited my friends at the state flagships they attended and could not believe what was going on…dorm elevators that were damp from vomit and urine after Friday and Saturday night drinking. Campus town sidewalks with vomit puddles everywhere. This was in the 80’s.</p>
<p>We all know drinking too much alcohol is harmful, and can be deadly.</p>
<p>We tell our children this, as does their high school, as does their college.</p>
<p>Some over-imbibe anyway. They are adults and must face the consequences of their own behavior.</p>