If you are looking for merit and she’s is looking at pre-med, WCU and UDel are not underreaches with her stats. You might be surprised at the number of very smart kids there and the level of challenge. I don’t want to underestimate her accomplishments because she sounds amazing. At we’ll-regarded public colleges you will find the best of the best students in the state who just have budget limitations. For example,to get good merit at Pitt, students have needed at 35 or 36 SAT for the last couple admission cycles. I remember wondering if my own D could get into honors at UDel and she has a1470 SAT and 4.6 GPA.
I want to say that I’ve heard wonderful things about Moravian, the music and the sciences. @AmyBeth68 might be able to give you some input. If I remember correctly her D was a very high stat kid and fell in love with Moravian. The merit wasn’t high enough for us so I didn’t ask D to pursue it.
Merit is a very personal thing. I was really disappointed at Scranton’s merit. The net cost was far above other schools.
What about Ohio University? It’s more of a distance but they are supposed to have an award winning marching band. Your D has the stats for their Honors Tutorial College and I think she could get a lot of support to make a great medical school application.
As the parent of a current senior in HS with very high stats, I can say from experience that if you desire merit you will HAVE to “under-reach”. I have been surprised at how competitive merit is at “match” schools for my student. And for your daughter, you probably don’t want to spend all of your money on her undergrad. Or for her to be so challenged in undergrad that her GPA suffers.
U Del sounds good for premed, especially the honors program. Miami of OH also. If my student were planning on med school, Miami OH would be a top choice, as S has received a terrific merit offer.
1- There is no flagship U in the US which will be an “undermatch” for an ambitious premed student. The statistics you are looking at include the kids majoring in recreation management, phys ed, etc. Not that there’s anything wrong with that- but your D’s organic chemistry class is not going to include kids who sailed through HS with a B- average. So it is safe to assume that any flagship is going to have the rigor to support your D’s premed req’s.
2- I would NOT assume that your D is going to end up as a physician, however. Every HS kid needs to look at colleges and make sure the choice includes a plan B and C. For a lot of reasons- some kids find another passion during college. Some kids like the theory of becoming a doctor but the reality-- a decade of the grind and being the low person on the totem pole-- not so much. And some kids discover a related discipline- biostatistics (huge right now), genetics, robotics and prosthetics-- which have important medical synergies but don’t require an MD to pursue (they have different graduate school requirements). And of course- some kids can’t hack it and their advisers help steer them into something where they will excel.
3- I would also be leery of having the choice be dictated by an EC. One of my kids lasted a month in a college EC which he had pursued passionately (and was very talented at) during HS. Why? In HS, the EC provides the friendships, the collaboration, the social affirmation that for some teenagers wouldn’t exist otherwise (if you are the smartest girl in the school, you may not have a natural “crowd” otherwise). That kid gets to college and boom- lots of other “communities”. So for sure- use the marching band thing as a way to visit, assess, evaluate- but don’t pick a college which is otherwise a poor match just because of an EC. Your D is going to find her “peeps” in college for sure.
4- Make sure you understand your own finances very, very well before you get attached to any college. In your head- the 529 money is for grad school. No undergrad college is going to view it that way. In your head- you can afford what you can afford. So you may have a shocking day of reckoning- even with generous merit aid- when you see what your EFC is at a couple of the colleges which have been mentioned. And then make sure you understand how aid works- especially which schools will “stack” aid. If you decide you can afford 10K total (just being random) and your D gets a nice 25K merit award which includes a modest need based award-- then that’s it- your getting 25K. And you may wonder where the extra dough is coming from? Good question.
If she does end up at Towson, drop me a PM, amd I will have Happykid hook you up with her old landlord there. Not an absolute slumlord, good parking, and walking distance to campus.
Your daughter shows good sense in her college search. Provided she can participate in the band, she will find her people, and the size and location of the college/university won’t matter. Has she run this list by her band director? That person should have useful ideas and contacts for her.
i have two nieces at Miami Ohio who love it. they have good scholarships available too. and my sis and BIL speak highly of U Cincinnati. I would not cross off U Delaware if there is a chance of merit aid.
In my Philadelphia kids’ cohort – which is getting to be ancient history now – UDel was a pretty popular option for kids who planned to be pre-med and who needed merit aid to make college affordable, and who didn’t quite have the stats for merit at Pitt.
I get she may not want heat of southern school but UofSC has great marching band - not sure about pit… marching can get you a scholarship… in-state tuition I think… stats over all could get you money here. But it is hot in August when they start practicing
Thank you everybody! This has been very helpful. @MACmiracle it is good to know that West Chester and UDel aren’t underreaches – I myself attended Penn State in the honors program a zillion years ago. I loved it and I firmly believe that a smart kid can succeed at any college. But lurking on CC forums and hanging out with fellow parents who are caught up in the prestige wars has shaken my faith a bit…especially where West Chester is concerned. On paper it sounds like an amazing fit - not too far, relatively inexpensive, good honors program, excellent band/pit, good pre-med placement rate (though it’s massaged a bit, just like at many other schools)…but then I get the “oh…it’s just West Chester” attitude from people (and even from my own head) – it seems like the school where a lot of the more “average” students end up at our high school and I wonder if she shouldn’t be shooting for something higher. Plus it’s a PASSHE school and oh the discussions on CC about those - yikes!
At most of the schools I am looking at, you don’t need to audition to be in the band - they’ll take anyone, pretty much - so that isn’t a concern. I will make sure she double checks that before accepting anywhere though.
Thanks for the feedback on Moravian, Miami of OH, Towson, and UDel premed – they all sound promising. I did run an NPC on Moravian and it was looking pretty ugly – I think it said she’d get $23K in merit but that still leaves a giant number leftover for us to pay. As long as she gets something and we aren’t looking at $60-70K per year, we should be able to fund any of these schools out of her 529 plan, but every dollar spent as an undergrad is a dollar she’s going to have to borrow for med school. She’s pretty thrifty so I know she’s considering cost as part of why she’s so set on West Chester.
Towson is not a flagship right? It’s more of a directional (I think that is the term?) Kind of like West Chester?
OU has a band but no pit. I did hear they have generous merit though. UAH, UofSC, Tulane, and Nova Southeastern are probably too hot and southern – she has a medical condition that is exacerbated by the heat so I’m not sure how she would do, especially being outdoors for band. And she is not a fan of Temple - she doesn’t like Philly much at all, actually, and has expressed a desire for a school that has an actual campus instead of just being buildings on a city block (which I know should rule out BU but she has heard enough good things about that school from her friends that she kept it on the list). I will look into Ohio Weslyan and see if I can figure out what their band plans are.
Still lots of Philly kids go to UDel and I’ve only heard good things about it. I’d also say not to eliminate UAH based on politics only as the campus/city isn’t going to be the same as being in the middle of the rural areas of Alabama. If you get an ACT or SAT score high enough to get great merit you might want to visit.
Towson would be a directional. It is the former teachers college. Pretty much a West Chester peer.
Don’t worry over much about what you hear from the prestige-chasers. A lot of them will land in the Financial Aid forum on March 1 wondering how they are going to pay for the kiddo, and whether or not it is too late to find something affordable. I know it is hard to keep your head screwed on tight through this process, but you are fortunate. “DD won’t look at any place that doesn’t have a drum line that meets her specs, so lots of terrific institutions aren’t allowed anywhere near her list.” followed by a deep sigh and overworked-mom eyeroll, and you will earn the prestige-hunter’s pity, and allow them to riff on whatever weird thing their child wants.
One thing to consider and a reason to not base all of the requirements on a pit for marching band is that marching band is a huge time commitment with a capital H. My D played an instrument during college and being an engineering major, just did not have the time to be good at it. She played in some ensembles and took private lessons but it was a struggle to keep up. And something to keep in mind.
Also while I think marching band is great, she needs to figure out what she wants out of it. Does she want a structured, very time consuming band? Or more of a let’s have fun and we are not that great and do our own thing type of band? Both happen in college. And while everyone may have a good time in marching band, some have a more partying presence than others.
Does she want a band that has a bigger football presence? U Miami would have that, they are a MAC school and as I remember they have a big marching band. U Cincinnati, also bigger football school. Moriavian, I didn’t even know they had football but it’s a much smaller school than some of the others you mentioned. Game day is big, some schools have a full stadium and some, not so much.
Also questions to investigate besides size and what she wants out of the experience is how big the music school is and how available the band and ensembles are for non music majors. Cincinnati has a music conservatory but (and my information might be wrong) that there would be little overlap between the music school and marching band? I know that at Ohio State (not on your list but an example of a big time marching band) it’s very hard to get into the band without being a music major or very, very, good.
And the big question, would she be happy if she didn’t have the band? A place that she loves and be successful at.
Another one saying the UDel isn’t an under-reach. It’s gotten much, much more selective in recent years, particularly for merit. The kids who get merit there these days are the tippy-top kids anywhere- and many of them are science or engineering kids. UD has amazing chemistry and engineering programs. The honors program is very supportive of pre-med, provides amazing opportunities, and I can tell you for a fact that the marching band does give money.
Moravian is an under-reach, and I don’t think they have the right resources for your daughter. It’s a wonderful school, but very small and very specific.
The list might expand if SHE did the research to discover how limiting her requirements are. Also, in the process of researching, she might discover other options that are appealing to her even if they don’t have the exact type of marching band she wants.
In compiling her list, she should also keep in mind that a) she might change her mind about med school; b) she might change her mind about marching band; and c) she might not get in to medical school. So she needs to be satisfied about her college choice beyond those interests.
I’ve always gotten a sense that private schools (with BU a notable exception) often have more grade inflation justifying it by the quality of their students. I think that might be a worthwhile thing to consider for premeds. My understanding is that medical schools don’t scale your GPA based on your school.
College of Wooster has a marching band but I’m not sure about pit or need for marimba as it’s a Scottish inflected band that includes kilts and bagpipes! Merit brings the cost down to about 30K, which may be beyond your budget.
hi @zozoty I think band is fantastic. Once upon a time i had plans to play my instrument at college. but…nope didn’t make it past the first audition. Oh well, I didn’t have time anyway. I wanted to add a voice for IUP. They have fantastic music programs and the campus is very campus/leafy quad oriented. Having heard the IUP band, I would caution your daughter though, that she might not make it in freshman year. They are packed with music majors at that campus and the music overall is amazing! I hear what you are saying about PA schools…not a great selection and frustrating that we pay in state for something like PA Millersville or IUP what we could be paying for SUNY schools out of state. And that our instate price for Pitt and PSU is twice what someone in another state would pay in state for their flagships. just very frustrating.