<p>ClassicRockerDad,</p>
<p>and remember the time when Native Americans were the only ones living here?</p>
<p>Exactly, so who among us really has any business telling other people that they should leave.</p>
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The government has all sorts of business to do so.</p>
<p>As a person who teaches English to illegal immigrants, I can tell you that there is a whole other side to this story, the ugly side about exploitation, destruction of families, communities and cultures, using human beings as currency. Lots of abuse that is often overlooked by people who want to feel good about themselves.</p>
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[/noparse]. You can also use the quote function within a quote to double quote.</p>
<p>Back to the college stuff, so that we’re not talking politics, we’re taking about scholarships for promising “Dream Act” students who are expected to contribute more to society than they get. We’re talking about an investment with a positive return. We’re talking about kids who could be your own kids’ friends and peers. It’s nuts for us to lose these kids.</p>
<p>ClassicRockerDad,</p>
<p>while I understand where you are coming from, the fact is what was done then is done. I’d like to believe that we made piece with Native Americans, by granting them some autonomy and some economic advantages. </p>
<p>The fact of the matter is, we have current borders and current laws. They should be respected. Otherwise, what is the point to have them. I understand you don’t like current laws and borders. Then you should try to change them. American history is full of examples when citizens’ activism resulted in law changes (think of civil rights movement). I am not saying I agree with your position, I am saying that you should use your (and like minded individuals’) resources to change the current laws. Just like illegal immigrants should have had the courage to stand up to their corrupted government to ensure better future for their children. They chose to break the law instead. The are the ones responsible for the misfortune of their children.</p>
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There is no way to know that. That is what you hope, but there are no guarantees with kids. We can’t employ the college graduates we have now, we certainly don’t need to create anymore and make things more difficult for legal residents.</p>
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This isn’t just a red/blue issue in many cases. I live in New York and am a staunch liberal democrat. Except on the issue of illegal immigration. Because that’s where it turns into legality/illegality. I know a lot of really liberal democrats who do NOT support illegal immigration.</p>
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<p>LOL! </p>
<p>We (collectively) gave them smallpox, ripped them off (Manhattan for $24!), wiped them out, kicked them off their land, destroyed their livelihoods, food stock (Buffalo), and their way of life, made them live on reservations where there is nothing else to do but get drunk, and then sold them the liquor and cigarettes to support the “new” way of life. </p>
<p>Ok, so everyone who did this has been dead for over a hundred years, so there is no point in assessing blame now, but economic advantage? Really? I know you’d LIKE to believe that, but do you really?</p>
<p>What I dispute is the idea that it will be easy or inexpensive to enforce use of the database, prevent under-the-table wages, imprison/impoverish farmers and small business owners who hire illegal workers (since that what high penalties means), etc. etc. This is a gigantic, difficult, expensive undertaking – and that’s without even considering the political opposition this proposal would face from those business owners and their customers.</p>
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<p>“Expected” “Could” “Promising”</p>
<p>That is all speculation</p>
<p>ClassicRockerDad,</p>
<p>I agree that American history is full of ugly “moments”. What I was trying to say, there is a status quo between US and Native Americans right now. While we can keep going back and rehashing all the horrible stuff that our ancestors have done, it is not productive. Unless you have ideas how we can do to make up for what we’ve done, there is nothing we can do to change the past.</p>
<p>I don’t support illegal immigration either, but using the term that our friends the Israelis like to use, we have “facts on the ground”. </p>
<p>I have great sympathy for the innocent kids who find themselves here and feel as American as anyone of us through no fault of their own. I think it’s just common sense that there should be a way for them to become legal and more productive. The vast amounts of crop that rotted in the fields of Alabama this past fall with nobody to pick it makes me chuckle.</p>
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<p>Given the lack of proper quarantine procedures more than 200 years ago, it was inevitable that smallpox would spread to Native Americans, considering the trade and constant contact between N.A and americans.</p>
<p>The purchase of Manhatten was not a huge loss for the Native Americans. It’s a tiny island. </p>
<p>As far as I know, native americans run casinos in states where they are outlawed such as NY, so that is one economic advantage they have at least. And native american is a significant hook in college admissions, meaning that they have greater chance of accessing a high quality educatinon.</p>
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<p>Then why are they underrepresented :-).</p>
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I have the greatest sympathy, which is why I have spent thousands of hours over decades teaching illegal immigrants to read. However, it’s not as cut and dried as you are making the issue. There are many illegal immigrants who don’t want to be here, but were pushed out by their own governments, destroying families, communities and cultures. There are many illegal immigrants who come here to work, but are coerced into sending much of that money back to the home countries (making them needier here than they would have been) with no regard for their own wellbeing. It may sound pretty on paper to “let them stay,” but it’s a lot more complicated than that and that mentality is part of what allows so many human beings to be continually exploited. There comes a point at which the home countries have to be held accountable, they shouldn’t be profiting on misery.</p>
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Well that’s true of our kids as well. For any individual kid it may or may not be an investment with a positive return. One hopes that in the aggregate it would be.</p>
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<p>Because most colleges get fewer than a few hundred native american applicants each year compared to the thousands and tens of thousands of white and asian applicants.</p>
<p>Nobody is teaching legal immigrants kids how to read, they are on their own, I quess illegals are having it pretty nice…</p>
<p>MiamiDAP,</p>
<p>I know you are trying to be sarcastic, but there are (very accessible) programs out there that teach legal immigrants to read and write. Here in MN, all I have to do is look in my community education catalog to find one. I also think that unless the program that zoosermom was referring to is funded by private funds, it is intended for legal immigrants only.</p>