I’m willing to place bets that the sky won’t fall because more schools have gone TO.
6 Likes
#2 - please explain
2 Likes
The dramatic increases in applications to the top colleges came at the expense, at least partially, of many other schools where the numbers of applications were down equally dramatically.
2 Likes
I know a few people in college administration and the truth is that many schools have had difficulty filling their classes for the past several years (before Covid or TO). I expect this trend to continue whether or not TO stands because there are fewer kids in the age groups behind those in or near HS today and, overall, the number of kids applying to college will keep declining.
5 Likes
Yes, that’s true and that’s what I meant by demographic trends and impact of rankings, etc. However, the trend dramatically accelerated this year due to TO policies (there’s a NYTimes article on it).
We’ll find out won’t we? Although if the answer is that they actually could not do the work it will be reframed as something else. The intellectual demands are higher in most college majors. If you got 4.0 in high school with exceptional work habits, there could be a change of major ahead.
2 Likes
I believe COVID accelerated the trend towards more students applying to top schools, and fewer to lower ranked schools. TO was correlated with the shift in applications, it did not cause the shift. This is the Scott Galloway argument that COVID has accelerated the trendsalready happening in the college marketplace, where elite schools are more than fine, and many of the rest struggle.
Many colleges have trouble filling their classes. The top colleges have more applications than ever, now including kids with relatively very low test scores who don’t submit them and decide to spin the wheel of admissions fortune.
2 Likes
I agree generally, but in equilibrium the top schools will reduce their admit rates and more kids (not necessarily the same kids) will end up at the next tier. But the overall trend of reduced attendance is what will starve the lower tiers of students. If you can’t go to a school that’s really attractive, is it worth going at all for a remote experience? Also the general demographic decline in the age group.
Yes, COVID certainly had a role in it. After all, it had a role in the adoption of TO policies. The evidences are pretty clear that more students applied to top colleges because of their TO policies.
You say "
but then just
Many people would like to know so they know what colleges are looking for, how to write their applications, where to apply. These are valid concerns.
I feel like these threads are always showing that what it comes down to is a child with high test scores did not get into a highly selective school and now we are going to cry its unfair because a child with a high GPA and no scores did. I bet half the kids that score high on standardized tests are great test takers. That won’t determine how well they do in college as college is more then taking a test.
5 Likes
Regardless of what the schools say they are looking for in lieu of a high test scores, most students, no matter how accomplished or qualified, will not be admitted. There is no road map to admission whether or not the schools are TO. It’s a brutal numbers game as there are far more qualified students (meaning those who could do the work) than there are spots. When you factor in legacies, athletes, special cases (world class musicians/artists/poets) and the children of major donors there are even fewer spots for everyone else. I suppose that is what makes everyone so crazy. Of course, my belief is that talented, ambitious students will be very successful in life regardless of where they attend college. An admission to a top 20 is guarantee of nothing. Among my own personal friend group, there are 5 MIT grads, a Stanford Phd, and a couple of Ivies - the most successful among them (and by a wide margin) is my husband who attended a mediocre state school and was a B/C student all his life.
8 Likes
How would you suggest UCLA evaluate its 168,000 applicants ftom 40,000 high schools all over the world during its 10 week admission review season this year?
1 Like
College is more than taking a test. But processing speed (ability to quickly absorb information and come up with the right answer- tested on both Math and verbal) is for SURE an element of success in college. Not everything- and not across all majors- but for sure in some.
I took a Russian lit class (taught in English) in college. It was a survey course, so we’re talking hundreds of pages of reading a week (and Dostoyevsky is dense, not a quick “skim”) and the level of analysis required was intense. It was interesting to see the kids who quickly dropped the course- and those who dropped before the drop deadline. It was taught by a superstar- so was a very popular course- but it was grueling for anyone who wasn’t a quick, comprehensive, thorough reader.
Testing isn’t predictive of everything- but it sure is predictive of some things. And I groan when I read the posts by kids who post on CC that they are terrible test-takers but are majoring in “pre-law” (good luck on the LSAT, passing the bar, AND passing all your classes in law school if you are a terrible test taker) or “I don’t like to read”. Good luck BEING a lawyer if you don’t like to read!
2 Likes
Hire more help? lol Surely with all these schools are making just on application fees alone this year would compensate for that!
But curious…how is that your issue or your concern with how other students end up success wise? It doesn’t affect you if it doesn’t even apply to you. It all comes out in the wash in the end. If a kid can’t handle the rigors of college that that will be on them.
I think you’re generalizing unfairly. I personally don’t have any stake in it. However, there’s some truth in the following:
- People’s perspectives may be affected, either negatively or positively, by how they, or their kids, do on standardized tests.
Its not generalizing, its just the perception that the only people bothered by this new “test optional” at highly selective schools are ones that are most affected by it (aka kids who score vey high on these tests).
2 Likes
Absolutely true. Mine did in fact apply to schools she might not have gotten into if they required scores. I 100% fully admit that. It did work for her this year as she got in based off of her 4.7 and tons of leadership and activities.
2 Likes