New SATs are a disaster!

Parent Cafe
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<p>For folks who don't read my whole post, here's the suggestion: Five minutes is unreasonable, follow the directions in the registration bulletin to file a comment on testing conditions.</p>

<p>I'll preface this by saying my office does not administer the SAT I or II (we're an ACT state and school). However, we administer many of the other ETS tests (GRE, Praxis, TOEFL, etc, the ACT, MCAT, and the various PsyCorp offerings. No test that we give specifies an absolute maximum time for a break. Many use phrases like "short break," "10-15 minutes," "appropriate length), etc. Obvously, we would be concerned if the break ran 20-30 minutes (but this has happened, I'll mention why later, several posters have alluded to this) </p>

<p>From the SAT site on what to expect on the day of the test:</p>

<p>SAT Reasoning Test
....
You will get a short break at the end of each hour of testing time.
.....</p>

<p>I deleted the other items for brevity. Five minutes is not specified. If the test supervisors started after a 5 minute break as mentioned in an early post, that was probably (I stand to be corrected but don't think I'm wrong on this one, I'll explain why, it's obvious, as many have pointed out) a test center staff decision.</p>

<p>What to do: The registration bulletin should have a section on providing feedback directly to ETS. On many of the tests we give, that period of feedback is only 7 days, and that's when the feedback has to be received. If it were me, I'd be preparing that letter now and send it ExpressMail or some other means that is fast and trackable. </p>

<p>Don't expect an adjustment in score, that doesn't happen; at best, a free retesting would be offered for all programs I am familiar with if the issue were sufficiently egregious (and that's the test publisher's call).</p>

<p>Why 5 minutes doesn't cut it: Folks have already posted about the shear logistical absurdity at large sites. There are biological reasons why some folks take longer than others; I'll not get into that, some of that has been alluded to. Other groups may be in the building, occupying facilities. What one poster noted is simply outside the pale - cancelling a break - and must be reported immediately. That destroys the delivery of the test under national standard conditions.</p>

<p>When my shop is giving paper based tests (the computer based ones allow a bit more flexibility on breaks), and a candidate is late (our breaks are set at 10-15 minutes depending on test, site, facilities, and numbers and we hope to start again in 15-20), I'll send a same sex staffer into the rest rooms looking for them. </p>

<p>We've had folks who are sick, trying to clean up, or just delayed in a long line. Someone always is going to be last. If folks are puttering around with snacks, or gabbing, we get them back to the room. Otherwise, we wait. I don't mind delaying a section start for either of the valid reasons, and others, I've mentioned. Also, someone could be in serious health trouble (that's happened, too) and require emergency medical interventions.</p>

<p>My shop is not perfect, we've goofed (not often); but I'd like to think that the person's score earned in a testing we supervise is a measure of their intellectual ability and not how fast they can relieve themselves. In almost 31 years (this July, my goodness) of having national test supervision as part of my job, I and my staff, to the best of my knowledge, have never started a test with a candidate still in the restroom. We've had a few leave the site without telling us, but that's a different issue.</p>

<p>I'd write a letter immediately. If you, the writer, don't get satisfaction, others might. I've noted mid year changes in administration manuals that were obviously based on test taker complaints.</p>

<p>Good luck. This kind of problem in test administration shouldn't occur. </p>

<p>Sincerely,</p>

<p>Bill Allbritten, Ph.D., LPCC
Director, Counseling and Testing Center
(not trying to impress anyone <grin> but to establish some bona fides to comment on the issue :-) ).</grin></p>

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<p>Taxguy, I agree about the break issue. My daughter said there just wasn't enough time to get into the bathroom on the 15 minute break because of long lines. So, she suffered the rest of the time. Even so, her test center didn't get out until 1 pm - so she was there for a full FIVE hours. She was exhausted all afternoon yesterday. I did email the College Board using the link given above and would suggest others do so as well. 10 minute breaks plus a 25 or 30 minute break is necessary, I think, for such a long test.</p>

<p>However, I don't have a problem with the essay. I think in the end it it will force schools to think a bit more about writing and grammar in their curriculum and it is a very minor part of their total score (10% I think)</p>

<p>I'm wondering though - The College Board will be sending a copy of the essay to colleges. Does that mean that if you take the SATs 2 or 3 times, they will get ALL of the essays you write? If so, how will they know which one scored highest? Kids won't have the option of only sending their "Best" essay will they?</p>

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<p>Carolyn, unless I am mistaken, TCB will not send the essays automatically. Just imagine the combinations of one to two million essays and the number of potential applications. </p>

<p>What will happen is that the colleges will have access to a database of essay images, and will be able to view authorized essays, download and print essays in bulk. </p>

<p>My personal take is that there will be some preliminary interest from a small number of schools, but that the time, effort, and potential cost will quickly outweigh the benefits, especially after discovering the quality of the essays. </p>

<p>While I think it may used to verify the veracity of an application that perplexes an adcom (great personal essay - low verbal scores and grades), I just do not see Harvard hiring more staff to sift through multiple versions of essays for 20-25 thousand applicants.</p>

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<p>Xiggi, my thoughts exactly. My W is an English teacher at the high school level. Through her I learned something that I never thought of during my writing aversive high school years: every time a teacher assigns an essay to a class she (or he) has to read 30 essays. Amazingly I never thought of that. Not being a speed reader myself I thought of it as a punishment rather than a job. I told her that if I were an English teacher the colleges would be amazed at the ability of my students to write haiku.</p>

45

<p>OK, here's what the college board literature to college admissions officers says:</p>

<p>70% of college admissions officers reported in a CB survey that they will use the ability to download and print essay images for individual students to some degree</p>

<p>Colleges will be able to access and print ALL essays written by each student who take the test multiple times </p>

<p>Colleges can either batch order the essays for students who have had their scores sent or go back and access individual student essays if desired</p>

<p>The SUBSCORE for the essay portion of the writing exam will be shown on the score report sent to colleges.</p>

<p>So, my take: I think that smaller LAC's where writing is a real priority in the admissions process and who receive smaller numbers of essays will indeed look at at least SOME of the essays of candidates. I suspect that if they see a real disconnect between say, the essay subscore and a students GPA (especially in English), they will indeed check those essays at least on a limited case-by-case basis. And, they may even check more than one essay (indeed probably will) if the student has taken the test more than once.</p>

<p>I see a real possibility that at least some schools will start to use the essay(s) from the SAT instead of requiring an application essay. Several schools that I know of already require a graded, written paper from applicants, some in lieu of the application essay. There's also the potential for schools to look at essays for real borderline applicants - I wouldn't be surprised, for example, if they are looked at for particular groups of applicants, such as low income URMs and international students.</p>

<p>But, of course, who the heck knows? The essay could also be gone in a year!</p>

46

<p>By the way, my source for the above:
<a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/highered/ra/sat-admission-guide.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/highered/ra/sat-admission-guide.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>Carolyn:</p>

<p>a small nit, but methinks the essay is 33% of the writing score....but, Xiggi will correct me if I'm wrong. :rolleyes:</p>

48

<p>Maybe, 33% of the writing score overall but 10% of the overall test score. Or so I thought. Always room to be wrong! :)</p>

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<p>My first daughter (now in college) took the SAT's. My second daughter is taking the ACT. Having dealt with both organizations, my experience is that the ACT organization is much kinder and gentler in almost every way. They answer the phones in a friendly and helpful way. The test itself doesn't penalize for guessing, and as others have pointed out, you only send the scores you want sent (all from one sitting, however). For those who are weaker in math, the test only has 25% math, compared to what was 50% on the "old" SAT. The questions are more straightforward; it does not seem to want to "trick" students like the SAT. The test reminds me of the Midwest in all regards- pleasant, straightforward, no games. The only reason I can think of to take the SAT is if your student has trouble with processing speed because the ACT requires one to complete more questions in comparable time. In the end, I think both tests now represent some form of endurance testing.</p>

50

<p>My son also had two 5 minute breaks.....barely time to get back to the room....he took the ACT last month.....much less aggravation!</p>

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<p>Carolyn:</p>

<p>if the essay is one-third the writing score, then, you are correct (since the essay is worth ~233 points out of 800) which would be slightly less than 10% of the total of 2400. However, since each test score total is individually reported, M + CR + W, I think its best to consider them separately, as we used to for old SAT.</p>

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<p>Isn't the essay scored on 24 points (2 readers * 12 pts. max), which is 30% of the 80 pts. writing component? and 10% of the 240 pts. total SAT?</p>

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<p>KYDad (post #41) gave the definitive answer about what to about problems with testing conditions, and I thank him for his detailed reply. I have heard about local proctoring screw-ups at high schools here (one BAD screw-up in an ACT administration last year taken by many middle schoolers in the regional talent search), but on the whole we don't seem to have the problems reported by TaxGuy. Complain if there are problems. </p>

<p>For some international perspective, consider that high school students in several European countries and in most east Asian countries take college entrance exams for whole days over the course of two or three days. The SAT I in its "new" form is a challenge, to be sure, but it is by no means an unusually hard challenge (from the point of view of endurance) by international standards. There are, of course, hundreds of colleges that don't require SAT I scores for admission, for example your friendly local community college. So while I sympathize greatly with Saturday's test-takers, I would refrain from adding to the stress by describing a bad testing situation as a "disaster." It is just one of life's challenges, brought about mostly by the desire of more people to attend particular colleges than those colleges have room to admit. </p>

<p>Better luck next time. I encountered some crummy testing situations last year (in my son's talent search testing) and this year went to a different test location.</p>

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<p>Yup, I saw this happen once while I was actually in the mens room. It was Beer Day at the ballpark, and the line of squirming women stretched half way around the stadium, while us men just strolled right in and out of our restroom. Eventually, it just got to be too much and some woman shouted in the door: "We're coming in boys!" And they did. No one got offended. The men were mostly just amused.</p>

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<p>they should be amused. :)</p>

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<p>Tokenadult is right about exams in other countries taking several days.</p>

<p>In my baccalaureat (part 1 in 11th grade, part 2 in 12th grade), we were tested in every single subject. This meant, French literature, History (written and oral), Chemistry, Physics, Math, Biology, English (written and oral) Latin (11th grade) philosophy (12th grade) and PE (gymnastics, climbing up a rope, jumping over a rope, running and a few more feats of athletics I prefer not to remember). The whole thing took about a week, morning and afternoon. If a student got a zero (out of 20) in one subject or failed to obtain a combined grade of 10/20 , the student had to repeat the whole year, unless the student passed the "rescue" exam that was administered about a month or so later (same format). It was far more stressful than the SAT. I can't remember what we did for breaks.</p>

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<p>Yikes, academics AND PE. Thanks for putting it into perspective, Marite.</p>

<p>Of course there is some tendancy in that direction in this country with graduation exams and proficiency testing, and tests like the NY Board of Regents.</p>

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<p>Xiggi - Don't know if you'll see this, but thank you for your post on the SAT forum. Maybe if people stopped calling it a "curve" when it's really a conversion table there wouldn't be so much misinformation.</p>

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<p>Catheters and colostomy bags. . .is this what the SAT is coming to?</p>

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<p>ha ha ha, those would definetly be useful !!!</p>