New to CC and college search world

Hello all. I am a parent to 3 children - the oldest DD is a high school junior.

I stumbled upon CC rather late I realize. I was amazed at what I found! What a wonderful wealth of information and support. It has literally changed us. I am so appreciative of the information and the time that regular posters have committed to helping people like us to navigate this new world. Now we are at a loss of how to proceed in our college search.

We quickly realized that according to CC we could be considered “lazy parents” who have done many, many things wrong - and our above average, happy DD is probably in trouble in terms of a future (this is mainly tongue in cheek - but also filled with some genuine anxiety). We have encouraged our children to do their best academically but we have not “managed” their school careers -until finding CC, I had no idea of her GPA or rank (DD has a weighted GPA of 4.56 and unweighted of 3.91 – she is NOT in the top 10% of her suburban school - she is in the top 13% currently - all seminar/honors level with 5 APs by the end of this year). We are thrilled with her academic achievements and are proud of her work - until reading here that IF WE had pushed her or helped her more she would have that coveted top 5-10%. All 3 kids are active in ECs that they enjoy but have not specialized - they have not been to any summer institutes, started any clubs, had any tutors or private coaches. We have saved $ and live very financially conservatively. Otherwise we have not thought too much about college – it was “in the future”.

We thought we were middle class (although reading here we realize that is not so) - 2 working parents with advanced degrees - Southeastern, suburban, Pennsylvania - 3 kids - about $150K a year. We don’t feel “upper middle class” or rich but we do realize that we are fortunate (and hard working, and very frugal with $) DD understands economics well and we have shared everything with her - she has approximately $35K a year to put towards school without federal loans (so could go up by 5,500) - we are fairly certain we will not qualify for any need based aid and have shared that with her as well. We are a little flexible with our yearly contribution and can increase with yearly increases in tuition - but not very willing to start much higher than this $ - with 2 more kids at home.

After taking the PSATs DD decided to sign up and take the December SAT cold, with no prep, to establish a baseline – reading here we learned that this was a HUGE mistake. Way back when we took the SAT, her father and I showed up one date in the fall of our senior year(no tutors, books, practice, etc) and that was good enough for everyone that we knew. We were a little worried that she was pushing it by taking her to a junior year test but we also heard they were changing and thought “why not try the old one”. Oh boy - we had (and still have) a lot to learn. So, she ended with a 1890 - low writing score - she felt it was pretty easy but her timing was off and she did not finish several early sections. She wished she had taken a watch. We thought it was a great first try and gave good information on what to study. We found CC after seeing the scores and trying to see how they ranked (found out…not very good) and what resources she could use to work on getting from the mid 600’s to the mid 700’s. She is signed up for January test and then will switch to the ACT if necessary (I have never even heard of the ACT until CC).

ECs: model UN, music groups (voice and previously instrumental) theater (musicals, improv, and plays), girls scouts, church. She is very busy with studies and activities. She loves to travel (has been across the country, to Canada, and Europe), hike, loves history and world cultures. We have no idea how others are doing so much more - there are only so many hours in a day.

We are lost and now feel late to the game. She is confused and doesn’t know what she wants. LAC or University? Small or large? City or suburb or rural? She does know she would like 2-6 hours from home (*except for a wild card of University of Alabama which has caught her attention??). She does not know what she wants to major in - but thinks she is interested in biology, business, or political science. She likes research and sciences. She does not want to go into teaching, nursing, human services (she says she does not have the patience). She loves history and art but can not imagine any career path (like music & theater the practical side of her realizes that these are hobbies that enrich her life but can not see herself in a career of these things).

We have taken her to see some campuses very near home (not interested but they were easy to visit). We took her across the state to see Pittsburgh and CMU (before we saw her low SATs). She LOVED Pitt. CMU - not at all (good thing). She toured a top, well regarded LAC in the state (2,600 students) and she LOVED it as well but realized the cost was out of reach without the highest scholarship (longshot or hail mary). She will not look at Penn State (?she says too many people go there and wants to be “different”, is worried it’s too big and in the middle of nowhere - also very expensive for a state flagship). She thinks she will like and thrive at a LAC with smaller classes and better chance to find her place quickly – but is drawn to the opportunities and “feel” of the larger universities, especially without knowing her path yet. We have no idea where Alabama fits with all of this but she seems very interested in visiting - but knows no one who has ever attended ???

Where do we go from here? Any advice is appreciated. Anyone have an undecided student who is only above average but not a shining star? Is there still time to get ourselves on the right college track?

Oh, seeing this all written out, I apologize for the novel. I will try to keep future posts brief. Please forgive.

Tldr

Please do not beat yourself up. The fact that your DD is happy speaks volumes - you are doing it right IMO.

She has great grades, so don’t worry about that. I would concentrate on having her practice for the SAT and ACT. If you can get her a tutor, just a few sessions would probably help. If not, get the study materials and make sure she practices (under timed conditions) and understands her mistakes. She will be fine!

Can’t give you any suggestions financially wise but I can tell you I was where you were this time last year when my D was a junior. She applied early action to many schools and ended up getting into most. We were not involved in her schooling and she drove the schedule. We also told her to do her best and her GPA was about 3.5 unweighted - but the classes she took were mostly honors and APs. We were surprised that she received many merit scholarships.

My D is still undecided but now that she has options after applying early action we will take the time to visit the colleges she got into that are on the top of her list and she will decide where she will go by May this year.

Seems like you are a very typical parent on this site. Humble boast and all. No shame in that! You have a high school junior who is in the process of choosing schools and narrowing her choices. Not sure I see the problem.

Schools that give merit aid will look closely at her standardized test scores.

So if your fit will include merit schools investing time and money on test prep can be valuable.

And when you rate schools, do you value how many kids a school rejects, or how well graduates do?

No boasting intended - apologize if that is the tone. I was trying to give the facts up front of what we are dealing with. I am feeling the problem is that we are feeling like we dropped the ball on timing and are late to the game. Add to this her indecisiveness, our hands off parenting approach, and the fact that everyone around here seems to know exactly what they or their children are doing and have plotted the course early. We are trying to compensate and increase our involvement so it is not December or next January and we are no farther then we are now with few options available. We would like some direction to do this appropriately given the short time frame.

The achievement level and adult level focus of the majority of CC students here was shocking to us and has us questioning our assumptions (we thought we were early to even think about college beyond the savings part, we thought her 1890 was a great score, we thought she was well positioned with her grades until finding out her GPA and rank and that they were not that high or in the top 10%, and we thought she was well rounded and never thought of ECs being anything more than activities she enjoyed and we could manage). Our child is not nearly as focused, not nearly as advanced, and not nearly as supported as everyone else here so we are trying to do what we can to help fix these things - if possible.

I guess I saw this as no different from someone realizing how expensive college is while their child is in high school, thinking that their savings were adequate, and then asking for advice on how to catch up. People who have been in the situation or come out the other side might be able to offer advice on where to get started when it seems overwhelming. This is our situation but it is not financial, it is everything else - the search and the qualifications. We only focused on the financial for the past 17 years thinking that we would worry about the rest senior year. We were in the dark but feeling confident she had time and was doing fine. CC opened our eyes and now we are deer in the headlights and very concerned. We do feel very inadequately prepared (parents and child) and realize that it is our fault for not being more on top of it. Now we are relying on the kindness of strangers who have been through it to give us advice to help up us get on the track.

It seems too late for a tutor for the SAT (SAT test is in 3 weeks) but after reading on CC we did purchase the blue book last week and DD is taking her first practice test as I type. We will follow some advice we found here and start reviewing what she missed and try to improve from there. Wondering if we should cancel this test date and concentrate on the new SAT and/or ACT instead so there is not another low score. Seems like anything above 2,000 is what we should be aiming for.

Relax. You’re FINE. Christmas-ish Junior year is a perfectly reasonable time to start looking into colleges.

And that supposedly HUGE mistake of having her take an SAT cold this early is pretty much a non-event. There are just a tiny handful of elite schools out there (Stanford, Yale and Georgetown?) that ask to see scores of every test a kid has taken. Everyone else lets you pick which scores you send, so if she ends up doing worse in every section on that test than in later attempts, you can just pretend that test never happened. I think the only reason I would regret it is having paid the money and ruined a Saturday on a test that will bear precious little resemblance to the ones she’ll take in the spring or fall, because collegeboard is completely revamping the SAT. And 1890 cold on a first attempt is actually not bad at all. The vast majority of kids don’t take their first shot at an SAT or ACT until spring of junior year, so you’re by no means behind the 8-ball. If I were you, I’d bag that next test if you feel like the prep is going to be rushed, and just focus on the one next May. If she’s not happy with her score on that one, she can still try again in October and November of her senior year, or try the ACT.

Regarding your school options, here’s the thing: if you only want to pay $35K per year and your income makes you full-pay or close to it, you’re looking at one of just a few scenarios: 1) An inexpensive state school 2) A super-elite school like a top ivy or Stanford that would provide some aid for folks at your income level, or 3) a not-so-super-elite school that will give your daughter merit money and still provide a high caliber education.

Given that fact that you’ve (perfectly reasonably) chosen not to run the make-my-kid-a-superstar obstacle course over the last couple of years, option 2 is very unlikely to happen. The good news is that there are LOTS of terrific schools in option 3. If your daughter studies up for the next round of standardized testing and can tack on, say, another 50 points per category, that, in conjunction with strong grades, will be good enough to get her enough merit money at some outstanding schools to bring them within your budget. There are lots of threads on CC about schools that offer good merit aid. I also heartily recommend the Colleges that Change Lives list (ctcl.org).

It would be good to start getting a handle on whether or not you think she’s going to want to go small or big, and what sort of campus culture she’s likely to be most comfortable in. I personally am a big advocate of liberal arts colleges, because I think they provide a superior undergraduate experience, but your mileage may vary.

Deep breaths. You’re going to be okay :slight_smile:

@ OP, I think you are being too harsh on yourself. The money is the big part.

Some bright kids do not play game of seeking high test scores to win merit. Some take gap year, or commute to community college and transfer, or work and go part time.

For merit, schools look for critical reading and math combined at least above 1400; some schools want the score in one sitting. Your student could wait and prep for new tests in spring of junior year and fall of senior year. See the school for specifics; see various merit threads on CC. Make a spreadsheet of schools, awards available, date due.

She has great grades, and has time to work on her test scores. Only a few schools want all test scores, so that Dec SAT is nothing but a wasted Saturday morning and a wakeup call to her that she has to study for her standardized tests. :). Unless you thought she was going to an Ivy or Stanford, I don’t see much in the way of mistakes.

You can make a decent contribution, too. Lots more than some parents – it puts you in shouting distance of some schools that give good merit if she can improve her test scores. We had Sunday afternoon test prep at our house – I helped my kids review the ones they missed and they made flash cards to study those.

A couple of schools with good merit to consider would be Dickinson or Mount Holyoke (my kids weren’t so sure about all women’s before they visited, but they loved it – beautiful campus, solid academics, and a consortium of colleges for social activities and a few classes).

This is way too broad a statement. Plenty of very fine schools will offer substantial merit money below that level. Here’s an example: https://new.trinity.edu/admissions-aid/financial-aid/academic-merit-scholarships-first-year-students

There is a bit of confusion here. If every student had it all together nobody would be on this site. You are by no means “late”. I came on after mine was already in school. Mine and others I know never had parents micromanage everything. I see on CC many parents asking questions for their offspring but not all parents micro-manage the process. I didn’t. Mine informed me about everything related to things like applications-and I never clicked on anything. I drove the car to drop off and pick up for interviews. I met one interviewer when I was dropping off but that is because the interviewer waited with the applicant to meet me. I reviewed lists and sometimes offered advice about schools. I never clicked on one application so I did not review what went into them. Mine ended up at top “elite” schools but not the result of choosing “to run the make-my-kid-a-superstar obstacle course…” No superstar and no selection of courses or activities for the sake of getting into a “good college”. No academic tutors ever. No SAT/ACT tutors ever. Students should select the activities and the courses that are meaningful to him/her. High school should be all about high school and very little about “getting into a good college”. I know education from the inside so 'education talk" has been going on in my household a long time but not about colleges and not about how to craft oneself to appeal to a particular college.

The majority of parents of students at elite and non-elite colleges and universities have never been on this site and never heard of it. They are not “late” or disadvantaged in any way. Those parents and students who spend 4 years on this site as they try to package the student to appeal to X college are doing the student a disservice.

S took the ACT cold (for shame!) because he was invited to apply for a program that required ACT scores. He then took a prep course and scored the same 2nd try. Go figure. It doesn’t usually make sense to take the test cold, but there’s certainly nothing wrong with that. And your D now knows the importance of timing, which is an even bigger deal on the ACT.

I agree that’s a strong SAT score for first try - some practice tests to work on timing should help raise that score. Also realize a lot of schools don’t even look at the writing score. And don’t believe that standardized tests are required at all schools or for all merit scholarships - see www.fairtest.org for a list of schools that don’t require standardized test scores for admission.

I’m all for the hands-off parenting, but also in favor of college choice being a joint decision (unless there’s some huge trust fund out there so you’re not paying). If you do want to see if your D qualifies for merit aid, realize that merit aid is not typically given by top schools - they don’t have to pay overachievers to attend. Significant merit aid is awarded to students who are in the top 10-15% of the applicant pool at any given school. Many kids shoot for the best possible school they can be admitted to. Others shoot for the best school that is affordable. Since you’ve got some savings to begin with, your D has more options.

Many kids don’t declare a major freshman year. Some schools don’t require a major until 2nd semester sophomore year. The downside is if she picks a major with significant requirements/prerequisites it may be difficult to finish in 4 years.

If she likes the small LAC feel, there is an abundance of great schools in the NY/PA region that would offer a kid like your D merit aid. If you use the college search tool on this site you can filter based on schools where she would be above average.

@lostaccount, fair point that plenty of talented kids just follow their hearts and abilities and naturally accumulate the sort of resume that can gain admittance to elite schools without a lot of parental management or involvement. It sure helps to have someone doing the chauffeuring (and paying) required to develop talents and interests to their fullest, however, and the degree to which families make that a driving force during their kids’ high school careers varies widely. Mainly though, I was just being a little flip with that obstacle course comment.

“and we thought she was well rounded and never thought of ECs being anything more than activities she enjoyed and we could manage”

OP, I think this is absolutely what she should have been doing. There are some parents who micromanage their kids to set them up for admission to the reachy reachy schools, but I always wonder if it’s at the expense of their happiness. High school is 4 years of life. The kids should be participating in activities they enjoy, and that the parents can manage. My D participated in various activities with no common “thread” running through them - she just liked doing various things. She did well when it came to admissions, and I’m sure your D will as well.

As far as testing, I’d see how she is doing on practice tests and decide from there whether she should take the test in 3 weeks or wait. I would absolutely recommend she try the ACT as well, with preparation. There is time.

To me you sound entirely normal and even a little ahead of the game (though it’s good to stay focused from here on out). Oldest children are our guinea pigs. :stuck_out_tongue:

Like others I thought the “cold” SAT score was not bad at all! She has a very nice GPA, too, and parents with sufficient, though not unlimited, resources (most of us don’t have that).

She will have plenty of good options. You can hang around CC for a while to get a feel for what’s out there. Just don’t let CC freak you out. It’s easy to do! Visit some college fairs too.

Agree about not letting CC freak you out. Just stay off the Ivy/tippy top college forums – there be dragons.

Thank you all for the feedback. It is reassuring to hear that others are fine and were in similar positions. It is also a bit of a relief to hear that other parents were/are hands off and their kids not only survived but are doing well. It is also nice to know this process is normal - from the posts that we have seen, it appears as if so many people have the goal posts in mind, have narrowed their choices, and have a focus.

I have pulled up the colleges that change lives site and it is very informative - thank you. I will send her the links and encourage her to spend some time there. I have also discovered college raptor where I can see the costs and stats of so many schools. I have started looking into some of the schools suggested - they seem much more then our budget. Is there any site that shares about how much merit LACs offer? - I really don’t want her getting her heart set on schools we won’t be able to afford. When we are seeing 60K+ in tuition/fees they seem out of reach. What I am seeing is top 5 or 10% of class to get the merit scholarships - I don’t see that happening.

She is not sure how to decide what school size, location she prefers. We are not sure if she really doesn’t care or is looking for our guidance. She has loved the large U (Pitt) and the small, rural LAC (Gettysburg) and could see herself happy at both. She has told us today that she is not interested in seeing anymore Philly schools – so that eliminates many that we were suggesting (no Temple, Drexel, St.Joe’s, Villanova). We are going to plan to see Lehigh (academic/cost reach) and Lafayette (cost reach and maybe academic reach).

We never even considered Ivys or top tier schools (feel a bit bad like we had low expectations) but did underestimate the stats required at other schools. For example when we drove out to see Pitt and CMU we had no idea that the stats for admitted students were so high. Pitt is quite competitive (more so then when we went to school) and CMU is out of my dd’s reach. This was a surprise.

Both dh and I knew what we wanted to do for most of our life and we both work in our field of study. We both only applied to one state and on private school in our state (like almost everyone we knew). We met at the small LAC we both chose and the cost burden on our family (and ourselves as we worked) was nothing like now. There was never talk about best fit and there were not a lot of decisions. We wrongly assumed that this was still the way.

Thanks for giving us some directions to get started.

One very informative source of information is the Common Data Set (CDS) for each college (just Google that phrase with the college name). Tons of good info.

One way to get a feeling for merit awards is to look at the CDS info on the number of students getting non-need based aid. Calculate the % of the student body that number comprises. Then estimate if your D falls in that % in terms of test scores for that school. (say 10% of students get merit – does it appear that your student’s scores are likely to fall in the top 10% of last year’s admitted class?). Then look at the average amount awarded – does it seem like enough to make a difference to allow her to attend? That is s very rough way to assess her odds of merit, but at least it is some info. Also review the merit scholarship info on their “affording” or financial aid webpage. Putting tjose two pieces of info together is a good starting point. You can also review accepted student threads from recent years to compare stats to merit awards (although those forums aren’t all super active now since there was a CC website change a couple years ago).

Examples of merit my D2 got (lower GPA, but very high test scores), all per year: $25K Mount Holyoke, $15K Kenyon, $23k Lawrence (Wisconsin), $15K Macalester (MN). My D1 got $15K per year at Dickinson several years ago with a lower GPA and good-but-not-great test scores – and I think they have increased their merit amounts somewhat since then.