New to CC. Millions of Q to ask.

Parents Forum
1

<p>this site makes me consider even the little things related to academics and Ecs.
i got a millions of questions to ask but i'll shorten it to some questions i really want to ask.
i know no one will have the definite answers to each of these, but i would appreciate anyone willing to give answers to it.</p>

<p>all this questions is for the admission for competitive colleges (but not ivy level). sorry but please give me direct answers. any answers will be appreciated.</p>

<p>and i'm an intl with many experiences in different countries with average GPA of about 3.75 -3.85. moved to another school in my junior year.</p>

<p>AP courses
1, am I f***** since i am taking 1 AP in my junior year? else i'm taking pretty easy courses + courses for requirements.</p>

<p>2, if i am(1), would taking 4 APs in my senior year show my seriousness in academics.</p>

<p>3, there's no way i could switch to AP now. so even i'm taking normal class now, would studying the subject for AP and scoring 4 or 5 on the test be looked good upon.</p>

<p>4, how do adcoms think about those who selfstudy APs?</p>

<p>5, is doing normal US History class + self study AP US and Psycho and get 4-5 much worse than doing AP US History class + 4-5 test. or are they about the same.</p>

<p>6, what does it mean by people saying they self study AP. is it studying 100% by yourself? taking an online course? or at school officially while getting assigned homework?</p>

<p>ECs
1, Will colleges be more lenient on those who moved during both middle and high schools.
2, will starting to do a lot of stuffs in my junior year cover the less things i did in previous years?
3, in summer i mostly traveled around many other countries. do colleges like this or is it better to stay home research and work.
4, which better? volunteering in nature center, hospital, or a church?</p>

<p>5, i have no leaderships due to a move. i definitely knew i could be a captain of 2 sports and a class officer if i haven't moved my junior year. but darn i moved.</p>

<p>SAT</p>

<p>1, when looking at SAT scores. does intl need a slightly higher SAT than americans to have a same chance?</p>

<p>i'm sorry i asked a lot. but i think its better to try to ask then not. i feel stupid because i didn't even know AP existed till the end of softmore and SAT till the beginning of softmore.</p>

<p>i know i have to visit the counselor and discuss this kind of things, but i'm just not the kind of person. </p>

<p>and the Last question, how do you make time to talk with the counselor. counselor never has time since she has like 200 students. i have never seen her alone nor her talking to one person more than 10 min.</p>

<p>ok..... ... thanks</p>

2

<p>bigcow-- welcome to CC. Its gonna take you some time to get those questions answered, and I'd suggest you take them one at a time & post a new thread for EACH question.....I don 't think you'll get much response with the shotgun you just fired! Seriously, all at CC like to tackle these types of questions, but put them out in small enough bites so responders have a clear mission. And you may want to post some of these questions on other forums, like the SAT forum (for testing type questions) where you will get more advice from your student peers, rather than us parents on this forum. Good luck........</p>

<p>ps.....the more enticing the thread title reads, the more responses you'll get.......that is, don't make it too general, & make it a clear enough subject so others become interested</p>

<p>pps.....you also might want to research older threads on the subjects you are interested in.......most of your general questions have undoubtedly been asked here before in some form</p>

3

<ol>
<li><p>It's not the end of the world but it might look bad. You aren't doing IB, are you?</p></li>
<li><p>It would, though it wouldn't fully make up for it. </p></li>
<li><p>YES. Very. </p></li>
<li><p>I wish I knew (have done some myself). Probably they like us unless we come across as totally cloistered dweebs who study instead of getting sunlight.</p></li>
<li><p>Marginally worse, I suppose.</p></li>
<li><p>Generally the former.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>ECs.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>If you give a detailed, non-deceptive explanation probably. </p></li>
<li><p>Not totally but it's a huge improvement over doing nothing. </p></li>
<li><p>Did you learn anything or volunteer from the experience? If you didn't, that's still fine. Belive it or not the vast majority of students at top 50 schools have never published a research paper, participated in a nationally selective training camp nor founded a company. </p></li>
<li><p>Whichever is most fufilling to you. (though admittedly the hospital would sound good if you're spinning yourself as a premed.)</p></li>
<li><p>So found a club or something. Leadership is something that you do, not something that happens to you.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>SAT.
Depends on the rest of your app. For a straighfoward Bright, Well-Rounded Kid with no amazing talents, it would be good to have. </p>

<p>Ask her or her secretary to schedule an appointment. 200 isn't really that many. My school has two counselors for 750.</p>

4

<p>Some general advice: </p>

<ul>
<li><p>If English is not your primary language, you will need to take the TOEFL in addition to the SATs. </p></li>
<li><p>You can find the answers to many of your questions about AP's, SAT's and TOEFL at <a href="http://www.collegeboard.org%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.collegeboard.org&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/li>
</ul>

<p>-If you will require financial assistance to study in the U.S. high test scores, good grades and outstanding extracurriculars will vastly improve your chances, both of being accepted and getting the financial aid you need. </p>

<p>International students who need financial aid to study in the U.S. need to be aware that there are three categories of colleges and universities when it comes to financial aid for international students:</p>

<p>Category 1: A handful of the most selective universities in the U.S. do not consider financial need when internationals apply and promise to meet full demonstrated need. You MUST have stellar test scores, grades, and extracurriculars to have a shot at this level of school.</p>

<p>Category 2: A small number of colleges and universities offer limited financial aid to internationals but generally award it only to the most qualified international applicants. You must have test scores and grades
above the school's averages for U.S. students to get financial aid at these schools. These schools are also not need blind for internationals - that is, they may turn down otherwise qualified applicants who have significant financial need, so you want to be at the top of the pack in terms of test scores and grades to insure that they take you in spite of financial need.</p>

<p>Category 3: The vast majority of colleges and universities in the U.S. do not offer any sort of financial aid to international students. </p>

<p>In a few Category 2 and Category 3 schools, international students are eligible for consideration for merit scholarships which are awarded based on test scores and grades. Obviously, having the absolute best test scores and grades possible - as well as special talents or outstanding extracurriculars - will boost your chances of receiving one of these scholarships.</p>

<p>However, keep in mind that there are very, very few "full rides" available to international students in the U.S. and those typically go only to the most highly qualified students.</p>

5

<p>Your questions on ECs made me sad. I interviewed students for an Ivy for years, and it was terrible to see how many directed their ECs to "what a college would like better."</p>

<p>Your ECs should be things YOU want to do and have an interest in! Besides, none of the kids I recommended had lists of various ECs, clubs, volunteer work, etc. They concentrated on maybe two things that they'd poured their hearts into.</p>

<p>On the kids' boards, there are always questions about joining clubs, too.
Utterly useless and irrelevant, UNLESS the student started a really good, awesome club that actually ACCOMPLISHED something.</p>

<p>Sometimes students just fall in love with something and it develops outward in many ways - my favorite interviewee (I've used this example before) fell in love with the ocean as a little kid; though in a landlocked area, he managed to get himself to the water (an hour away) to learn to sail for free through a community program; got into marine biology and developed his own projects; managed to find his way onto a Caribbean trip as crew; did an Ivy Oceanography course in the summer on a sailing ship; volunteered with the Community Sailing program to help inner-city kids who had never been on a boat learn to sail, etc. etc. etc. etc. So his volunteer work, intellectual interests in biology, his desire to explore, his athletics (he raced sailboats) were all inter-related and an integral part of who he was.</p>

<p>It never seemed to occur to him to ask, "What will look good to colleges?"
He just followed what he loved.</p>

6

<p>nedad - I don't know how long ago you interviewed the young man you mentioned in your post, but there was definitely a time when we didn't have to ask "What will look good to colleges?" Unfortunately, college admissions have become so competitive and the need to "fit their profile" so essential, that it's not as simple anymore as doing what you love if you want to attend a very selective college:-(</p>

7

<p>Columbiamom:</p>

<p>But we don't know what colleges want from year to year, be it an oboist or a coxwain, so students might as well pursue what they love.</p>

8

<p>"Unfortunately, college admissions have become so competitive and the need to "fit their profile" so essential, that it's not as simple anymore as doing what you love if you want to attend a very selective college:-("</p>

<p>Not true at all. I interview for Harvard, and the students who stand out and get in are the ones who clearly have done what they love.</p>

<p>One can always tell when students have done something to look good to colleges: They haven't pursued the activity with any creativity; they have no real reasons for doing it; they don't light up when they talk about it. </p>

<p>Students who do things that they love have gone way out of their way to do such activities, and have done such activities even if none of their friends were interested. They glow when they talk about the activities. The activities also tend not to be common or if they activities are common, the students have done them in an uncommon way such as creating some special project to do in a club that many local Ivy-aspirants participate in. They've done far more than punch a ticket.</p>

<p>I also fully agree with what marite said.</p>

9

<p>The idea of choosing EC in terms of which would the college like to see....is a concept I had never ever considered until I started reading CC and found so many kids asking that question. I must have been naive and CC was a big eye opener. With my own kids, they were exposed to various activities growing up and started several that they do until this very day (now as college students). Picking these passions at a young age surely had nothing to do with college admissions. Then, they never wanted to give these activities up. They LOVED them too much. I think every EC they had on the applications were ones they had started quite young. </p>

<p>I can think of one thing one of my kid's did related to her potential major in college....an indep. study and an internship. These were not to look good for college. She did them because she truly wanted to explore that field to see what it was like and if she might want to go in that direction in college. </p>

<p>I recall someone asking me if my D was still going to ski race senior year of high school (HUGELY time consuming seven days per week) because the season was after apps went in. I had to take a double take because I can't imagine her giving it up! It had nothing to do with college. Ski racing is her deep deep passion. In fact, she is doing it now at college too and didn't want to give it up there either. </p>

<p>I think when adcoms look at your activities, they look just like some posters above said....at the committment, achievements, leadership, and how several activities combined showed the passion and how the kid lights up when talking of that area, etc. But they are also looking for kids who might CONTINUE these activities on campus and contribute to campus life. So, if some kid picks to do X activity to look good for college, it seems like that kid is not going to continue it when he/she gets there and they are looking for kids who WILL be active on campus in similar ways. </p>

<p>I also agree with the suggestion that the OP ask each topic as separate threads. There is so much in the post that I don't even want to tackle it. Also, take a day or evening and go through old threads and do a search on the topics you have questions about. You will find many answers and then you may come to ask specific questions within the context of having some background from reading previous threads. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

10

<p>Columbiamom, I hear where you are coming from, but I very respectfully and very firmly disagree. This young man was two years ago, but that is neither here nor there. Marite and Northstarmom are absolutely right.</p>

<p>In my interviews, it was very easy to see (as it is with Northstarmom) who was really "selective college" material, and it was very easy to sniff out who was trying to "fit the profile" (as if there were one profile!). If one of my children decided NOT to pursue what he or she loved in order to conform to a preconceived prestigious college profile, I would wonder what I had done wrong in raising him or her.</p>

<p>If you look carefully again at what the young man I interviewed did, any selective school would LOVE to have him. He captained sailing ships, explored marine biology, figured out ways to learn things that were beyond his family's means, helped others to do the same, and many more things I didn't mention. No, he didn't win an Intel or come up with a new patent, but he took amazing initiative, was extremely creative, etc. I doubt if that kind of passion would have occurred if he had been saying to himself, "Hmmm, I hear squash players are in demand this year...and I better join 7 clubs so it looks like I do a lot...."</p>

11

<p>In theory I agree with all that you say. However, I have know many, many kids who have pursued sports, for example, in high school who were able to get into the most highly selective colleges in the country that otherwise would have never been considered by the schools had it not been for their athletics. Many of these kids knew early on in high school that they would never have the academic credentials to be accepted to these schools and pursued the athletic angle. I agree that it's wonderful to pursue what you love, but sometimes you may need to pursue your strengths if your loves aren't enough to get you where you want to be.</p>

12

<p>Ahhh.....sports! That's a whole different ball game (pun intended!). Yep, you are right on that one! On the other hand, if the student does not have the academic credentials to go to a certain school, what will happen once he or she gets there and finds the work too hard to handle?* Or what if he/she manipulates his/her way into a school in this manner, then drops the sport? Is that ethical or fair to other applicants? Just wonderin'......</p>

<ul>
<li>Yes, I know some manage to do just find, but that is not always the case.</li>
</ul>

13

<p>I doubt that these athletes could have excelled to the point of receiving scholarships if they had not invested some degree of passion in their sports.
S1 was told by an Ivy interviewer friend it was a pity he was a piano player: if he had been an oboist, he would have a greater chance of being admitted into top colleges. S had no intention of applying to Ivies; he did not take up the oboe and he got admitted into a top LAC.
I would have been glad if he had taken up the oboe because I love its sound; but I would have been tremendously disappointed if he had taken it up "to look good to adcoms."</p>

14

<p>One of my favorite books is by Richard Feynman, "What Do You Care What Other People Think?" This is a motto I've often used with my kids, in the sense that they should pursue their interests regardless of how others may perceive them. (I DO care what people think about my kids regarding manners and consideration for others!) I love their quirks (most of the time!) and would hate to see them conform to a limited idea of who they should be. </p>

<p>When my older son was looking at colleges, I really insisted that he not try to morph himself into what he thought they were looking for. If they didn't want him just the way he is (or has the potential to be) then I wasn't interested in having him apply. The thought of maintaining some facade for 4 years just sounds exhausting to me. </p>

<p>I question the perspective presented in this comment:</p>

<p>"Many of these kids knew early on in high school that they would never have the academic credentials to be accepted to these schools and pursued the athletic angle. I agree that it's wonderful to pursue what you love, but sometimes you may need to pursue your strengths if your loves aren't enough to get you where you want to be."</p>

<p>If a student isn't going to be in the right place academically, how successful can the 4 years really be? I know that sports is a hook for many kids, and some kids are both academically and athletically qualified. But I think it would be a disservice for kids to get into a school where they are over their heads academically.</p>

15

<p>Perhaps there are athletes who pursue a sport as an "angle" to get into college but most that I have met, do not. Most that I know have a love of the sport. It is such a huge commitment that I can't imagine doing it for any other reason. As I do have a child who was a three varsity sport athlete, I just know that her motivation had nothing to do with how it might help her get into college. She is doing two sports in college because she loves them. She was not a recruit. </p>

<p>Like Marite's son, my kids played common instruments. Both played piano for ten years. Common? For sure. But they loved piano and it was a basis of many other things they had done in the performing arts and was really a basis of their understanding and love of music and they started young. One also was accomplished on clarinet on the state level. A common instrument as well but the one she chose. The idea of choosing an uncommon instrument never occurred to us plus why not let them play what they want to play? The other D's second instrument was flute and her third was guitar. Do colleges need kids with these instruments? They are likely a dime a dozen but I do not care one bit. They had committments in the field of music and many achievements. They did many other performing arts activities that related...band, jazz band, chorus, musical theater, dance. One of my kids who is pursuing musical theater....her piano skills have been incredibly handy to have, placing her out of required courses, being able to musically direct shows and do musical arrangements, being able to accompany herself and others who sing. This activity of piano alone, started at seven, has had many benefits in her life even IF it is a common instrument. I just can't imagine anyone willing to put in the hours they have and the preparation for adjudications and much else, if it was just for college admissions. It has been very involving, like another subject of homework, on top of numerous other ECs. </p>

<p>Common or not, it is the commitments and achievements that I think colleges care about....that you have followed your interests and found ways to pursue them and have made achievements in those areas, or possibly led or created something. I don't think you need to invent yourself for colleges. But when you apply,you need to show and document who you are. Just be someone interesting who did not hang out when not in school. Don't pick summer activities to get ahead. Do ones you love. If these are academic and you want to do academics in summer, great. But you don't HAVE to do academic things in summer. My kids never did. They chose along whatever interests they had and wanted to enjoy. You don't have to THINK up these things. You do something and do it to the max out of deep passion and when college admissions time rolls around, you merely share who you are. All this strategizing is a bit much in my view. Yes, colleges want involved kids, achievers, etc. But there is no specific thing you must do....you have to participate in depth in something, try to achieve, perhaps even lead. What that something is, doesn't matter as long as it is what you love. There is no magic answer to the WHAT. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

16

<p>"In theory I agree with all that you say. However, I have know many, many kids who have pursued sports, for example, in high school who were able to get into the most highly selective colleges in the country that otherwise would have never been considered by the schools had it not been for their athletics. "</p>

<p>I find it hard to believe that a kid would be able to excel to that extent in a sport that they didn't really care about except as an angle to get into college.</p>

<p>Every recruited athlete whom I have met has pursued the sport out of love. They also have been exceptionally talented. There is no way that someone can morph themselves into an athletic recruit without a love of the sport and a heckuva lot of talent. </p>

<p>Parents can force kids to go out for a team, but parents can't give kids heart or talent. Not even expensive sports camps can mold students into people with those things.</p>

17

<p>Really competitive athlete kids - not that I have any of them:) - work so damn hard. They get up in the morning early, they practice for hours, they have club sports, they have tournaments, they almost always have injuries, they have losses. </p>

<p>Now, in contrast to the others on this thread, I have known some competitive athletes who maybe were more forced by parents than doing what they loved. But they worked amazingly hard - it's difficult to call it "having an angle". And what I would say is, even if these kids weren't doing competitive athletics they would have been moving around because to be that good you have to have the native drive to move.</p>

<p>I had one kid with passion and killer ECs. Another kid, just as bright or more so, not characterized by passion in the public arena. Lot's of interests, just no desire to share them with anyone. But the dearest kid. So I ain't forcing the EC issue. If the Ivys don't want him their loss. Better no Ivy than a high school life full of forced and soulless activities which drain the chance to really learn from their days.</p>

<p>But if the kids WANT to do it...that's a whole different ballgame.</p>

18

<p>Alumother -- I love this! "If the Ivys don't want him their loss. Better no Ivy than a high school life full of forced and soulless activities which drain the chance to really learn from their days."</p>

<p>Sometimes, when I read about what kids are doing in order to get into the "right" college, I think of an old Apple commercial -- rows of gray people marching in unison until someone runs up and throws a hammer or something at the screen. Does anyone else remember this? Shades of "1984."</p>