New View of ROTC Post-Election?

<p>In the past, I have been wary of recommending ROTC as a way to meet college costs. Too many students see only the money and don't look beyond graduation to recognize the potential dangers of military service. I have long believed that ROTC preys on the economically disadvantaged who must turn to ROTC in order to attend college while their more well-heeled peers do not. I have always felt that our nation should offer a comparable civilian-service alternative. (AmeriCorps and City Year do provide some funding for college but are hardly comparable in terms of the commitment they require and the funding they provide.)</p>

<p>BUT ... with Obama about to take office, I am cautiously optimistic that recommending ROTC to students who need significant help with college costs will no longer be tantamount to shipping them off to a war zone post-graduation.</p>

<p>So here's my question ... Are there students and parents out there who are considering ROTC during the Obama presidency who would not have done so during the Bush (or McCain) administration?</p>

<p>
[quote]
don't look beyond graduation to recognize the potential dangers of military service

[/quote]

Good grief this is what is wrong with America.</p>

<p>Thousands and thousands of kids have had their college education paid for by ROTC, the service academies or the GI bill. Many are very remarkable people, highly intelligent and serve our country well in military and the civilian world.</p>

<p>Perhaps it is better for the economically disadvamtaged to go into six figures of debt and struggle finding suitable employment after graduation.</p>

<p>In 2005 4500 teens were KILLED in auto accidents - but we still hand them the keys to the car.</p>

<p>Right now I would tell any high school kid who has no money for college to enlist for three years. Three years of service gets you a free college education, books and a salary while you are in school.
For kids who are saddled with loans, post college, enlisting can qualify you for bonuses to pay off the loans.</p>

<p>Thanks for bringing this up though - military service is not presented enough as a viable option. It's not for everyone but for many folks it has enabled them to better their lives by far.
IMO - don't ever commit to the military based on who is in office or the present world situation. Obama hasn't taken office year and will only be in until Jan 2013. A 2009 high school grad will be commissioned post college in the spring of 2013 - potentially under a new administration.</p>

<p>An excellent book written by a U Penn (Oh my Ivy League!!) who joined ROTC to pay for his UPenn education is "This Man's Army" by Andrew Exum. I cannot recommend it enough.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Thousands and thousands of kids have had their college education paid for by ROTC, the service academies or the GI bill. Many are very remarkable people, highly intelligent and serve our country well in military and the civilian world

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I agree. But I deal with students who don't come from families with educated and/or worldly and/or supportive parents and who don't get good (or sometimes ANY) counseling in high school, and who thus don't go into ROTC with an understanding of the commitment it demands. Typically, these are very poor students who see no other way to finance a college education ... even if there are, in fact, other options. ROTC may be the right choice for many, but it should not be the default option for students who feel that they have no other choice. </p>

<p>
[quote]
In 2005 4500 teens were KILLED in auto accidents - but we still hand them the keys to the car.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Again, I agree. I think that there are many things that we as adults do to our children that should be changed. One of them is that the bar is set way too low when it comes to granting the privilege of driving (and it should be a privilege indeed). Another thing that makes me ask, "What are we doing to our children?" is the college admissions process overall. :eek:</p>

<p>
[quote]
IMO - don't ever commit to the military based on who is in office or the present world situation.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Good advice. However I'm still curious to know if the change in administration will lead some students and parents to regard ROTC in a different light (regardless of whether that's a wise idea or not).</p>

<p>Keep in mind that an entering freshman with a 4 year ROTC scholarship has ONE year in which to back out of their obligation without penalty. That's right - they get one year of college paid for while they try out ROTC and then can make an informed decision if military service is correct for them.
I would think a young adult can make that decision for themselves in one year.</p>

<p>As for very poor students with no other options - ROTC generally doesn't pay for room and board. Yes they get a monthly stipend but that is small and room and board is now running close to or above $10,000/year at many schools. A student with no parental financial resources could have a hard time even with an ROTC scholarship.</p>

<p>Its actually 2 years...Talked to my CO today.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I have long believed that ROTC preys on the economically disadvantaged who must turn to ROTC in order to attend college while their more well-heeled peers do not.

[/quote]

I find that hard to believe. Comming from a HS with a wide variety of income levels (mostly lower/middle class), there were virtually no ROTC advertisements. Now, I'll admit that various regions do get marketed to differently. What do you base your belief on?<br>
(I did find it comical when the Army National Guard sent an advertisement to my Air Force Academy mailing adress...)</p>

<p>I would NOT change my recommendations on ROTC, based on the election. Obama has drastically moderated his rhetoric on Iraq, and supported increased involvement in Afghanistan. There is also the strong possibility of other hot spots flaring up in the comming years. The US military has a presence in over 100 foreign nations, at varying levels and duties. Does that mean I would not recommend ROTC? No, I would still recommend ROTC to those who wish to serve in the military as officers. That was and should remain the primary focus. Benefits in education and other areas are very nice, but they are NOT the point of ROTC or the Service Academies.</p>

<p>Nyko831:</p>

<p>It's 1 year for Navy ROTC. You sign in the dotted line day 1 of your Sophomore year. This is if your have the 4 year scholarship coming out of HS. If you are a college programmer and pickup a scholarship later on you are committed at that time.</p>

<p>One year for scholarship students. Without a scholarship for Army ROTC you can take the class for two years, get no money and not have a commitment. You would then contract for your 3rd and 4th year.
In any case there is a period of decision making before your commitment.</p>

<p>What I don't understand is the thinking that ROTC preys on low income students who desire a college education and that they don't know what they are getting into. Honestly, kids enlist everyday right out of high school into the military - and they only have basic training to decide to leave or stay. If a kid is smart enough to get into college - whether they are rich or poor then they are smart enough to do their homework and know what they are getting into.</p>

<p>I too agree that this is a little strong to say that the military "preys" on people like this.
These kids have good heads on their shoulders, are adults, and know what they're getting into.</p>

<p>I frankly am MORE concerned with a son about to be commissioned under an Obama administration, because I believe we stand a much greater risk #1 - of being FORCED into a global conflict under a highly inexperienced leader, and #2 - seeing the defense budget get ridiculously slashed, something which federal government has no business doing, when, according to the Constitution, providing for our defense is one of its FEW powers.</p>

<p>So, it concerns me more, actually, that the budget for the military will be cut and a career in it, serving our country could be less fulfilling and rewarding than it should be.
And, under a democratic fed, it's just natural that the military is constantly put down and ridiculed.</p>

<p>That's my 2 cents.</p>

<p>Obviously, this question opens a can of political worms, but I have a couple of points.
It's essential that any student signing up for ROTC, or enlisting in the military, should have a clear understanding of the obligations. There have always been complaints that some recruiters have painted unduly rosy pictures, and parents and school counselors should be involved to make sure the kids are getting the true story. I think this is where poor kids with less educated parents may have a problem; they may not have an adequate reality check for what the recruiters are saying.
As far as the danger of entering the military, I think any parent has to have concerns about that, no matter who is President. The world is unpredictable. Enlisting probably looked pretty safe in 2000. Danger comes with the job, and recruits and their parents need to understand that.
Will more (or different) people sign up with Obama in the White House? I don't know.</p>

<p>I think there are a lot of parents who think that joining up, serving your country in the military, and having college paid for, may be a very workable and practical option...........for other people's kids.</p>

<p>wait, so you can get one year of college tuition free by signing up for ROTC and then dropping it? It seems like a nice way of paying for college, but I am not sure how long you have to serve? Is there a way to cut service for medical school?</p>

<p>If you apply for a 4 year scholarship and win one while in high school, you have one year of schooling before you are "contracted" with the Army. After that time period if you drop out you will either owe money or time as enlisted. The choice is generally not left to the student.</p>

<p>The Army has a program for medical school. You will serve many years - how many depends on the program and if your undergrad was paid for. If you want some details send me a pm.</p>

<p>Justamomof4: "Three years of service gets you a free college education, books and a salary while you are in school."</p>

<p>A friend who enlisted in the Marines right out of high school didn't get that good of a deal. It's my understanding that he will have up $50,000 to spend on his college education after his term of service. By no stretch of the imagination would I consider that "a free college education, books and a salary" while he attends college.</p>

<p>thanks, that puts things in perspective....</p>

<p>When did he enlist and when will he get out? The New GI Bill goes into effect next summer.
If he is still in college he will qualify if he served for three years after 9/11/01.
read the link:
GI</a> Bill 2008 - Home</p>

<p>Please have your Marine friend check it out. He deserves it.</p>

<p>
[quote]
This new benefit will cover the full cost of education at any public school in the country and many private schools. To qualify for the benefits, a veteran has to have served at least 90 days of active duty post-9/11 and have remaining entitlement. Only post-9/11 active duty service counts toward this benefit. Any remaining Chapter 30 or 1607 entitlement can be converted into this new education benefit. There is no requirement to buy in to qualify, and the benefits last for 15 years after separation.</p>

<p>This benefit discards the outdated benefits system and replaces it with a WWIIstyle GI bill that provides upfront tuition payments directly to the school, and provides a book/supply stipend of $1,000 per year and a monthly living stipend. The tuition payments can be used at any public or private school but are capped at the cost of the most expensive public school in the state. Click here for a state-by-state breakdown. However, more expensive private schools offering a veterans-only scholarship will see that scholarship matched dollar for dollar up to the full cost of tuition.</p>

<p>The monthly living stipend will be based on the Department of Defense Basic Housing Allowance (BAH) for that region. The stipend will be pegged to the E-5 with a dependent rate for the zip code of the school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
A friend who enlisted in the Marines right out of high school didn't get that good of a deal. It's my understanding that he will have up $50,000 to spend on his college education after his term of service. By no stretch of the imagination would I consider that "a free college education, books and a salary" while he attends college.

[/quote]

Enlisting is separate from ROTC. Enlist, do the job, and get some nice benefits (usually guaranteed in the contract). ROTC, go to college (while having most or all of it paid for), commission as an officer, then serve at least a set amount of years.</p>

<p>You'd be hard pressed to correlate party affiliation with likelihood of war. Dems Kennedy and Johnson started the Vietman War. Nixon, a republican, brought the troops home. </p>

<p>You could correlate the societal attitude toward soldiers. Under Dems, those who volunteer to serve their country are abused and belittled. Under Republicans, they are more likely to be respected as heroes serving their country. So under Obama we may be looking at high war likelihood, with the military disrespected. </p>

<p>Is anybody besides me expecting terrorists at the inauguration?</p>

<p>A big point that is being missed here is Obama serves for 4 yrs, your child enters now, signs the dotted line and Obama loses in 12. The child can't just go gee whiz now that we don't have Obama I want out.</p>

<p>Back many yrs ago I had a friend who graduated from ROTC, the military scaled down and she was allowed to go from Active Reserve to Inactive, she kept re-upping her committment, b/c 2 weekends a month and 2 weeks a yr came with a nice little paycheck. Guess what happened? Gulf War did and she was called back to Active Duty. She was living in England with her Active Duty husband and 2 sm. children. She had to ship the kids back to the states to live with the grandparents for 6 mos, while she and her husband were deployed.</p>

<p>As soon as she got back she handed in her papers, to quote her she realized she made a pact with the devil. </p>

<p>I absolutely do not believe the military is the devil, our DS is in the AFROTC, but you don't chose this route due to a president or a free education. Nothing in life is free and this comes with a payment of many many years. </p>

<p>Also I do somebody who enlisted with the Marines, they have a unique program. The child went to boot camp this summer and will enroll full time as a student at college that he selected in Jan. He then spends his summers with the Marines and returns in the fall for school. In his Jr to Sr yr he will go through OTS,</p>

<p>Why</a> the Ivy League is Rethinking ROTC - TIME</p>