New Yorker Article about Oberlin

Colleges and Universities A-Z Oberlin College
41

@marvin100 – I’m assuming that your post is parody.

These kids are laughable. They are caricatures of themselves. Many of them are majoring in fields that are not true academic disciplines. They are victims, not in the sense that they think they’re victims, but by virtue of the fact that Oberlin will give them a degree after four or five years even though their thought process and intellectual deliberations are no more rigorous than the day they matriculated.

Have you looked at Joy Karega’s “scholarly” work? It’s a joke.

As a child of the 60’s it is beyond me that these children want their university’s administration to control the speech and views that can be expressed on campus. They are an embarrassment, as is the Oberlin administration who coddles them.

42

Perhaps you only encountered the more polite and thoughtful kind of activists back then. I remember activists back then (not all of them, but enough of the noisy ones) doing the same boorish or closed minded things like shouting down and insulting others who disagreed with them. Some of them were disliked by other activists because they would show up uninvited at other groups’ protests and try to incite violence (e.g. by throwing stuff at the police).

Just because you didn’t see the uglier kind of activists back then does mean that they did not exist back then.

43

My post is not parody, no.

What’s “embarrassing” to me is how hilariously bent out of shape the SQWs get about the antics of a bunch of college students. What’s it to you? It actually seems to me that the “victim” mentality here is shared by the critics–are these Oberlin kids hurting you in any way? What are you so upset about?

In the words of John Cage: “I can’t understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I’m frightened of the old ones.”

44

First, what’s an SQW? I know SJW, but…

Moving past that, it isn’t that the Oberlin kids and similar smallish groups at many other schools (and it is important to note that this is hardly isolated to Oberlin and thus does have larger implications) are hurting me directly. Neither do many things that happen in this country and in the world, but we take note and comment. So I don’t remotely see your point there. And like, say, an EPA ruling about fishing in Alaska that might not impact me at all, there are implications about certain things that occur that portend of more serious consequences. If you think that these kinds of movements are brief flares that will die out, then you are right. Might as well ignore them. And they well might under their internal contradictions. But they might not, and in any case represent a disturbingly narcissistic world view among our youth that is, in fact, inherently dangerous if allowed to get out of control, unless you long to see a return to basic tribalism and hopelessly fractious politics, which we already see in the latter anyway. This will only make it worse because there is zero room for compromise. There is no world in which all positions and needs can be simultaneously satisfied, yet we rightly reject a world in which only the majority get these rights.

Of course in the real world that happens more than it should. But these movements seem to me to represent a reversal of all the progress made in the last 50-70 years, and certainly an attack on the most fundamental rights this country is built on. Things have slowly gotten better. Too slowly in many cases of course, but on the other hand look at the amazingly fast shift in attitudes and public policy regarding gay rights. This kind of activity by these students threatens to reverse all that, despite their intentions to the opposite.

Because in fact these are not new ideas, but a return to dangerously old ones. They just don’t know it. But in different disguises these same types of movements, which have been continuously occurring in the world forever, can only lead to disappointment. Somewhere in the article there was a statement along the lines of “we just want the school to be the right experience for everyone”. That is impossible, especially once people insist on being taught from a perspective that matches their racial identity. Or was it their gender identity? Oh wait no, it was their experiential identity as a rape victim, and/or a poverty victim, or…

I think the massive contradictions are clear. As soon as you satisfy one group (Palestinians) you anger another (Jews), just to over-simplify. But of course that other group has no rights, right? Now which was the other group again? Anyone that isn’t a straight, white male from at least a middle class family and no psychological issues?

Of course there are problems with hate in this world. Of course there are problems with the white middle class never really understanding the experience of the poor Black or Hispanic, or the transgendered individual, or any of dozens of other categories. But none of these extreme positions regarding speech, association, etc. versus “personal space and protection and right to personal harmony” address that.

45

Some of “these kids” are indeed capable of rational thought. One such is my son. There are a few whackjob professors that he knows to avoid, and a sizable, vocal minority of PC wingnuts, but the majority of people he deals with on a daily basis at Oberlin are intelligent, intellectually curious, and there to get an education.

46

@Massmomm – I feel sorry for the serious students at Oberlin whose degrees have been devalued as the school loses its prior top-notch reputation.

@marvin100 – Frightened? Are you serious? I’m not the one seeking a ‘safe space’ from speech and ideas with which I disagree. Cream puff SJW’s are the ones who are afraid of micro-aggressions and of even listening to an opposing point of view. I take solace in the fact that, except for the ones who get academic positions in gender or some sort of ethnic studies, most of them will end up as Starbucks baristas, while the kids who were so privileged that they actually did their homework will end up with rich and rewarding lives.

47

I regret my comment. Suffice it to say that Oberlin is different, just as Babson is different. Recognition of differences help us make good decisions . Oberlin made our small town radio this morning. Apparently, students don’t want to accept grades less than C. Those Oberlin kids need a sense of humor … my former boss, who sent a kid to Oberlin, fired me for not hitting my sales goal.

48

The collegescorecard.ed.gov website shows that the median earnings for Oberlin grads taking financial aid, 10 years after graduation , is $38,400. This is surprisingly low for a selective college. Leadership positions in non-profit hospitals and universities can pay quite well, but it doesn’t look like that’s where Oberlin graduates end up.

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@hebegebe: Looks like that Collegescorecard includes Con students. New England Conservatory students on that same site are only earning $28K as a median, so I’m guessing that’s why Oberlin looks lower than its peer schools.

50

When students demand concessions from the administration because academic obligations (like attending class, studying for finals) are interfering with their activism, I think a reevaluation in priorities is in order. Either quit school and become a full-time activist or get the degree and then work for social justice causes afterwards. Just saying.

51

I have a cousin who went to Oberlin. She is a nurse, working in women’s health in impoverished communities within the US. I have a lot of admiration for her – more than I would if she had gone to Wall Street.

52

SQWs can disagree all they want, but as always, history won’t treat them well.

And if the young people today become Starbucks baristas, they can thank the bankrupt political-economic conditions established by their predecessors.

53

An Oberlin alumnus here.
I was at Oberlin last weekend to see a friend graduate. Commencement and reunion weekend activities general take place Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, and the commencement takes place on Monday. The campus was beautiful. An 83 page pamphlet was passed out with information and a list of the activities. I counted at least 17 musical events, a golf tournament, 5K race, alumni rugby, bicycle tours, building and town tours, swing dancing, an OCircus performance, and numerous talks and presentations, all during the first three days. Oberlin’s weekend rivals anyone’s.
During my period there, I spoke with at least half a dozen faculty members at length, parents and soon-to-be graduates, and President Krislov himself. This was all before the New Yorker article was released. All of the parents and the graduates were very pleased with Oberlin. There was no mention of any stifling of discussion, which is what the New Yorker article expressed. What was on the faculty’s mind and the President’s was the approach to be taken with Assistant Professor Karega. The Tower uncovered that she had made many anti-Semitic type statements on her Facebook page and elsewhere. This was a complete surprise to everyone. Krislov did not sweep it under the rug during commencement weekend, but had an open meeting with the public and other administrators on Saturday. He said that bigotry will not be tolerated among the faculty at Oberlin. Oberlin has great a deal of faculty governance, and her actions are now being reviewed by a faculty committee which can recommend discipline, including termination. She is untenured, so she could be let go without violating any tenure agreement. He emphasized that she is entitled to due process, as is the case with other faculty members. He mentioned that he and representatives of the black students had met, and they were working on making changes in response to certain of their grievances. The administration is also looking at the allegations of anti-Semitism. This is a case where anti-Israel has become anti-Semitism. Next year, there should be talks and workshops about the subject.

My experience at Oberlin was that there were many different viewpoints and lifestyles, and everyone tried to be respectful of all of them. Most students were upbeat and friendly, even the more militant ones. After all, we were all students at a wonderful place where we were encouraged to explore our interests. When I have more time I will talk about the New Yorker article in more detail.

What I want to talk about is all the unnecessary and I think absurd comments about the cafeteria food issue. Imagine that you are at a Mexican university with a hundred other Americans. You pay board to eat in the cafeteria. They keep serving hot dogs in a hard taco, without any ketchup, mustard, or condiments. They call it “American Hot Dog”. You tell the food service to please serve the hot dog with a soft bun, and the usual accompaniments. They fail to do so. You then write a letter to the student newspaper complaining about it, and asking that they serve a true American hot dog. The internet gets wind of it, and many commentators accuse the students of being spoiled brats. Much ado about nothing. Students have complained about cafeteria food forever.

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I’m sure they WILL blame their predecessors, as personal responsibility is a concept that is totally foreign to them. I’m comfortabe letting history decide who is right on this issue.

55

SQW = Status Quo Warrior?

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@gratefulalum – regarding the cafeteria issue: I think it was the loaded term “cultural appropriation”, that I found kind of offensive for the ethnic food that was prepared “incorrectly”, unless that was a journalistic misinterpretation of an actual quote. If I got miffed every time I ate what was billed as “American pancakes” abroad (and paid good money for) that had the “wrong” texture and taste I would be a very unhappy traveller indeed. Same with hamburgers. They just can’t get the bun right to make it “culturally correct” in my book. Still not offended. At least they tried.

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@gratefulalum – Thanks for the informative post.

I imagine that you’re aware of the nature and extent of Karega’s Facebook posts. I think it’s safe to say that had an Oberlin faculty member posted similarly racist or anti-gay slurs, not only would there have been a major scene on campus, but they would have been disciplined in very short order. Oberlin has been aware of Karega’s posts for over three months. It’s another three months before the fall semester begins. Do you honestly believe that the faculty and President Kislov can muster the wherewithal to fire her before September? Or will she be teaching again when the fall semester begins? The facts in her case could not be more clear. This will be a real test to see which groups truly have “privilege” at Oberlin. Hopefully the answer will be that none do.

58

@intparent

That makes sense, although it seems to be a personal usage on Marvin’s part? Google on the exact phrase and I only get 1500 hits, so hardly status quo phrase yet :wink:

@marvin100

Full disclosure, I changed what was there to “disagree” because what was there was disparaging towards those that had posted opinions different than yours, and as importantly was distracting from the thread because it was soliciting a response about the characterization.

In any case, your statement of history always treating unwell people that prefer the status quo, is not correct. I mean, the American Communist Party has done so well (heavy sarcasm). There are many examples on both sides. Of course things never stay exactly status quo, and I doubt a single person on here is advocating for that, so perhaps your SQW has not caught on because it mischaracterizes those that disagree with the majority of what the SJW’s at Oberlin (and most other places, but not all) are demanding, and even more so their methods. So out of all the people advocating change of course some will be proven correct, but I doubt you have a crystal ball that says this one is one of them.

This list of demands that were “nonnegotiable”. Not only were most of them stupid, absurd, and/or completely not feasible, but I have seen no evidence that anyone in that group even tried to just talk first, to go through normal channels. Instead they act like 3 year old children throwing a tantrum in the aisle of a supermarket until they get what they want. Yet in that whole farce there is a nugget or two that probably should be seriously considered and changed. After all, these administrations are famously liberal. It is hard to believe they wouldn’t be receptive to a few suggestions (as opposed to demands) that can be implemented in cooperation with and with the help of the students themselves. That would actually be a furthering of their education as to how things get done in the real world. If after all that they feel like the administration was being unresponsive and unreasonable, they would then be at least a little more justified in their actions, just like workers that always negotiate first before going on strike.

I obviously cannot speak for you, but I find it hard to believe you have read the original list of demands and agree with them all.

59

Funny–when the excesses of fraternities and sororities come up (not to mention football players), the “adult” response always seems to be “kids will be kids,” but the excesses of those kids who have had it with race/gender/sexuality double-standards and inequality are seen as the decline and fall of a generation.

I don’t agree with the demands, nor have I said that I do. But I side with the kids, and I know a lot of Oberlin kids (I performed there a few years ago), and I find the indignation the oldies feel for the occasional overreach completeley disingenuous and presumptuous.

As for “how things get done in the real world,” well, that’s what they’re learning, but more importantly, “how things get done” isn’t an unchangeable fact of nature. Our conditions are our doing and are thus subject to our changing them. I hope things change for the better–the way they are and the way they have been is pretty soul-crushing.

60

Cherry-picked worst examples aren’t sufficient, and similar excesses can be found in any issue about which people feel passionately about, as anyone who’s ever spent a few hours in a sports bar on a Sunday afternoon can attest.