<p>I learned about bourbon, bowties, BBQ, and, um, shagging in high school in the North. I don’t think you really have to go to college in the South for those things. (Not so sure about shagging – I learned the British kind, which people seem to pick up pretty well wherever they go.)</p>
<p>@northwesty: Heck, for a lot of folks in the NYC/NE corridor, studying in the deep South would probably be more of an “abroad” experience than Western Europe. </p>
<p>Just saying there are a lot of Kosher delis in Woody Allen movies. You don’t have to be Jewish to eat there or like the food, and most people like the foods from the regions they were raised in. I like Italian food, and yet I’m not Italian. If you go to Ole Miss, you’d better like BBQ.</p>
<p>Many times on CC I’ve read there there is no discrimination at Bama or Ole Miss, that everyone is welcomed with southern hospitality. The minority student may still FEEL unwelcome, not included. And the numbers don’t lie. This year about 2200 girls pledged panhell sororities at Bama, and only 24 of them self identified as black.</p>
<p>I think the OP is right to investigate the issue and not pretend discrimination (even for being a NYer) doesn’t exist. Ole Miss might be the perfect school for her son, but the questions have to be asked. I don’t think my Chinese child would have been happy at a big southern school, but my white child might have been (probably not, but not because she didn’t feel included).</p>
<p>There are northerners like Northwesty who embrace the experience, find the good things about living in the south, but there are others who fight it all the way. If OP’s son is the first type, he may do well.</p>
<p>JHS – I was referring to the shagging that occurs on a dance floor. Fun, but not as much fun as the other kind. To my NYC eyes, southerners and NE preppies were fairly similar. A frat boy from, say, Bucknell would fit right in in the south.</p>
<p>OP here, enjoying your observations and stories. I think one factor in a good adaptation is pretty nuanced or subtle – whether the person who wants to go somewhere “different” believes that they know exactly the ways in which it’s going to be different, or whether they are willing to expect the unexpected, and embrace it as an adventure.</p>
<p>I also think some college freshmen are better suited than others to stepping off a cliff. I’m personally not a big fan of the suitcase college approach, but some kids evidently need the stabilizing influence (or whatever it is) of weekend visits home. That will not be feasible, in my book, if it involves plane tickets. So the kid would have to make the commitment to go there and stay, if that’s what’s really desired. And then, of course, if it proves to be too much, you’re looking at a transfer, with potential loss of credits, and that gets expensive.</p>
<p>“I think if he chooses Ole Miss as a social experiment, as a chance to get to see another culture, he’s going to regret it. Four years is a long time for a chance to experience a different side of Americana. He needs to adjust to the culture, as it is not going to adjust to him, and he’s not going to change things. If the other students wanted to be New Yorkers, they’d go to school in NY. They like it in the south. The sorority girls like wearing their Lilly Pulitzer dresses to football games, like getting dressed up for class, like formal dinners several times per week (and the food is not Kosher).”</p>
<p>I think there are different things to consider. Dressing up for football games, wearing Lilly Pulitzer, drinking sweet tea, hearing ma’am/sir fall into the realm of “cute, harmless and interesting local traditions.” A girl not having a chance at a sorority because she is Chinese doesn’t fall under “cute, harmless and interesting.”</p>
<p>I agree with @WhenWhen that racial segregation in fraternities and sororities at a lot of southern state universities remains a significant concern. Thus, racial minorities from the Northeast or West Coast could be in for an unsettling experience at schools like Ole’ Miss and Auburn. A northern WASP might not be as affected. Otherwise race relations are calm and respectful.</p>
<p>I went to Auburn, and it is considered one of the most conservative schools around. Yet, I knew students from New Jersey and California that were very happy there. In fact, I did not know a single “yankee” who transferred out (but, obviously, I did not know them all). Ole’ Miss has even more out of state students than does Auburn. Thus geographical diversity might not be much of a problem.</p>
<p>I definitely recommend a road trip to Ole’ Miss. Also, maybe check out Tulane University on the same trip (a 5 hour drive). Although it is in New Orleans the Tulane campus culture is distinctly “yankee.”</p>
<p>^^ And that’s why we never considered Alabama or the Mississippi schools. It was important to my daughter to at least have the opportunity for the sorority, but really it was that if it was that clear that a huge section of the university wouldn’t accept her, she didn’t want to be there. She did look at schools without greek life so it wasn’t a deal killer, but it’s different to be at a school and not welcommed to participate that would be the problem.</p>
<p>My other daughter who is white almost rejected the school she’s at because it didn’t have enough diversity. It doesn’t because the state it is in has a very low minority population and the school really does represent and serve the state. She’s found the attitude to be very welcoming to all students. It’s all in the attitude.</p>
<p>I suspect that the demographics of the SAE house (whether located Ole Miss or Penn State) are going to be pretty darned similar. Frats are not bastions of diversity anywhere. Kids get rejected by greek organizations in every geography for all kinds of reasons, many of them not so nice. If you don’t think your kid is a greek type (I was not personally) then don’t pick a school where that is a big component. </p>
<p>One thing about the big southern schools is that they are CHEAP. OOS sticker price at Ole Miss is under $30k. Instate at any flagship in the NE the same or just slightly less. Penn State is $28k instate, $41k OOS.</p>
<p>There’s plenty of bigots in the NE, even if you don’t see them flying the stars and bars. AA enrollment is 15% at Ole Miss. That’s a pretty high number. Higher, most likely, than what you’d find at most schools in the NE. Penn State for example – 3.6%.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Mississippi’s population is 37.3% black. Pennsylvania is 10.79% black.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Although NY is flagshipless, the OOS sticker price for the four SUNY university centers is around $32k.</p>
<p>I don’t agree with you about the national sororities pledging only whites. My daughter did happen to join my sorority at her school, and there was no issue with her being Chinese. I’ve also seen many pictures of the pledge classes around the country and while there are many that have a lot of blonds, there were plenty that have a lot of racial diversity, especially at the schools that have a lot of racial diversity - WPI, Case Western, RPI, CMU. If people want to change things, it can be done.</p>
<p>Oh god, we don’t need to go through this again. 30 years ago in the mid 80s, H’s house had a black president, and my house had a black president and a Hispanic president. It was unremarkable. S’s current fraternity has members of all races / ethnicities, and both gay and straight members fwiw. “They aren’t diverse anywhere” is a red herring thrown out to disguise the fact that there are still systems which are woefully behind the times. It’s appalling to think a Chinese girl “wouldn’t get a fair shot.” Normal people don’t think and act like that. </p>
<p>Where is the fear a Chinese girl won’t get a fair shot coming from? My Chinese son is at the University of Alabama who is pledging a fraternity. He has faced no racial barrier to going Greek. It’s all in your attitude and not having unfounded fears about imaginary discrimination. Get over it already.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Except the frat boys from the south would have better manners. </p>
<p>Maybe the frats at Alabama are better than the sororities at being inclusive. This year national panhellenic required each house to have a national rep on campus to make Rush more diverse, more accepting. Out of ~2000 who pledged, 21 are black, and 169 self identified as minority. Not even 10%.</p>
<p><a href=“21 black women, 169 other minorities accept bids during University of Alabama sorority recruitment - al.com”>21 black women, 169 other minorities accept bids during University of Alabama sorority recruitment - al.com;
<p>There is still a ‘separate but equal’ system as there are traditional black sororities on campus too, but I don’t think it is so equal. Glad it worked out for your son, NoVAdad, but for my daughter it wasn’t an environment she wanted to be in. </p>
<p>This issue has been covered to death on the UA boards, so I won’t regurgitate here. There’s no denying that the Greek houses are overwhelmingly white, but the system is changing for the better. There’s no reason to fear a minority student won’t feel welcome in a college in the deep south if one does not go in with preconceived biases. 70% of the students at UA are not Greek, so you don’t have to go Greek to have a great experience. There are so many other things to do at the schools than being in a fraternity or sorority.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That’s the wrong comparison, though, old mom. Both states have more than one public university. We are talking about the flagships. Penn State has 46,000 students but only 3.6% of them are black. Ole Miss has 19,000 students, with 15% black. That’s a big difference.</p>
<p>A kid going to Ole Miss is 4.5 times more likely to have a black kid sitting next to him in English 101 than at Penn State. From that perspective, Ole Miss would be a more diverse experience.</p>
<p>FYI Old Mom, 15 divided by 37.3 is 40%. 3.6 divided by 10.79 is 33%. You’d like to see both numbers be higher and there’s multiple factors involved. But that data could suggest that Ole Miss is doing a good job enrolling AA students.</p>
<p>All I was trying to say by posting the population statistics is that the difference may not be as huge as it looks, when demographics of each state are considered. Another consideration is cost–Penn State is relatively expensive for instate students, and for students whose families can’t contribute much, that’s probably a huge obstacle. And since the AA population tends to be lower in income and assets, it probably contributes to the difference.</p>
<p>All I was trying to say was that if you are a kid from the NE, by attending Ole Miss (oddly enough) you’d have a much more diverse set of classmates (at least as measured by AA enrollment) than you would if you attended a school in the NE. By a very significant margin – the difference actually is HUGE. It doesn’t matter why/how that happens. That would be your experience if you go to school there.</p>
<p>That was my experience going to school in the south. I definitely met types of people that I never encountered at my Catholic suburban high school in New York. Some rednecks with stars and bars stickers on the windows of their pick up trucks for sure. But also lots of AA students too. Just sayin…</p>