Newbie to athletic recruitment - need advice - xc, track and field

Athletic Recruits
1

I have a daughter who is a rising Junior who participates in xc and track and field. She and her team have done very well and her coach has started to talk to us about college and potential recruitment, etc. We’ve been told that our assignment for the summer is to come up with a list of schools that she’s interested in and fill out their recruit information form.

Neither my husband nor I were athletes at this level and we’re pretty clueless about the process. At this point, our main question is whether we really want her to try to pursue xc/t&f in college. On the plus side, we will be in the position of not qualifying for much financial aid, but also not being able to afford $50k a year, so anything that might help with any money would be great. We’ve also been told that, even if she isn’t good enough to be recruited or offered $, being an athlete that the coach wants as a walk-on could help her to get into a school that she might not otherwise get into. She also likes the idea of having an instant community of friends who will probably be like-minded, etc.

On the negative side, we’re very concerned about the toll that running at college might take on her academic success and, more importantly, on her health and overall happiness. She - like many athletes - is a very intense, competitive kid. She has great grades and works her butt off to maintain those grades, along with meeting the demands of her sports. She’s the kind of kid who refuses to cut corners and we are afraid she’ll be miserable trying to meet the demands of both professors and a coach while dealing with the usual freshman adjustment issues.

So, can any of you give any advice on how playing a sport in college affected your kid? I know different sports have different demands, so specific experiences with track and field and/or cross country would be most helpful. I also know that a lot depends on the division of the school, with Div I being more time demanding than Div III, etc. We were thinking of maybe limiting her recruit applications to Div III schools and then letting her apply to the Div I schools she likes without bringing running into the discussion. For those schools, we’d just let her high school athletics be a good extracurricular.

Does that sound like a good plan? Is there anywhere to look that might give us information on how demanding a particular coach is at a college? There’s one school she likes a lot and would be interested in running for, but I’ve heard rumors that the coach there is very difficult.

Any advice is appreciated as we begin to try to figure all of this out. Thanks!

2

Your plan sounds like an excellent one.

D3 suited us well. Top notch, small colleges with buckets of financial aid. Consider the endowment and ask if the college/university provides 100% of student need.

Be prepared for a college search that will take you to places that you did not anticipate.

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If you need money to make a college affordable, then d3 might not work. Her athletics might get her in, but it would give no money. You might be surprised that you are eligible for need based aid, but if you aren’t, then that $50k price tag (really, most are $60k+) may not work.

Athletics do take a lot of time, but the structure has been a very good thing for my daughter. One benefit is that she gets preferred registration and thus a better schedule. No 7 am labs for her, no evening ones either, and very few on Fridays. She would not spend the 20 hours a week she spends on athletics on studying if she didn’t do athletics. She’d spend some working out and most of the rest at the beach.

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Thanks - glad to hear we’re on the right track! “Buckets of financial aid” sounds like just what we’re looking for. :wink:

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Thanks Twoinanddone! We can tell that trying to find that sweet spot where her athletics can help her get in, but we can still afford it is going to be tough. She is strong academically, so we’re hoping that - along with realistic choices as far as “prestige” - will leave us with some good, affordable choices.

And I appreciate your point about the structure participating in a sport gives the kids. My D has always said that practice helps her to get out energy built up by sitting in class all day and then allows her to focus very well when she gets home. I also hadn’t heard about preferred registration! That’s very good to know and we’ll look into any athlete perks like that at all of the schools she might be considering.

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Lots to think about. If your income is high then you won’t be able get much finaid. Consider merit aid schools if your college boards are strong. Fordham and Muhlenberg come to mind. The net price calculators are pretty good and some build in merit aid. If your athlete is all-state then you will have many options.

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Have a frank discussion with your daughter and set your goals. That is the very first step.

If you want athletic money, as twoinandone suggests, you won’t find it in the D3 schools. Certainly, there is merit money at some D3s (Kenyon and Oberlin come to mind), but most of the top D3s do not offer merit money because it is so competitive to get in that it is difficult to differentiate between the top academic candidates. Ditto with the Ivies. Rumors always are floating around that “so and so” received a big disguised athletic award from a great D3 or Ivy. I sort of doubt it, because no matter how terrific a contribution an athlete makes for four years, the risk of being sanctioned by giving out illegal athletic scholarships comes with a greater penalty. They are probably just generous needs-based FA awards.

Athletics do help a recruit to get into D3 schools (and the Ivies, but that’s a different discussion). And, as Burgerm suggests, the college search will take you to places you did not expect (in a good way). It also may give your daughter a greater range of options. At a minimum, she will have a better understanding of what she wants out of college

Athletics in most cases do help by exposing a student to a group of ready-made friends. This was my experience, and I do hear it from many others. However, I won’t go out on a limb and say that it is everyone’s experience.

As far as the time commitment, there is that. But at the D3 level, the commitment usually results improved academic performance. It is no different than being more efficient with a greater amount of work you to do. The added work forces you to be more efficient, watch less tv and play fewer video games. It should be noted that this is a general rule, and there are exceptions. For example, some students have trouble with lab science classes, since they may conflict with practice times. Another frequent question arises with the engineering students. All of that could be discussed when you meet with college coaches.

As an aside, I would draw a distinction between walk-ons at the D3 level and D1 “recruited walk-ons.” My understanding of D3 walk-ons is that they just appear for tryouts without any admissions assistance from the coach. Incidentally, support by a coach through admissions often results in a place on the roster, but it is not necessarily a guaranty - another good topic to discuss when meeting with the coach.

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If you want a D3 to be both “affordable” (through merit aid) and also lots of “prestige”, you are likely to be disappointed. If you drop the concern for name recognition and look at the quality of the education instead, many more options appear. I see from the 2016 NCAA indoor track & field results (http://results.deltatiming.com/tf/2016-ncaa-d3-indoor-championships) a bunch of great schools that I’m pretty sure have merit aid: Wash U., St. Lawrence, St. Thomas, Denison, Luther, Christopher Newport, Cornell College, Concordia, etc. etc.

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You might reconsider your plan not to feature XC/track in your admissions process for Division I schools. Who knows what opportunities might emerge if you talk to a few coaches?

There are lots of DI schools outside the power conferences that might be a fit from a time commitment. Does running DI at William and Mary really require a materially more significant time commitment than running DIII at Emory, for example?

I think the location of the school, and more importantly the travel schedule for the team, is easy to overlook. A DI team that has most meets at home or near campus might look less demanding than a remotely located DIII team that is frequently traveling long distances by bus - and vice versa, of course.

Not trying to sell DI but the common wisdom of casting a wide net does seem to apply. So many variables and possible outcomes. Good luck and have fun with it.

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Wow, thanks for all of the great information. We definitely have a lot to think about and I agree that the first thing to do is to sit down with our daughter and figure out what she wants.

I know affordable and prestigious aren’t likely to be found together, so we aren’t hung up on prestige at all. Daughter was a bit at first, just because those were the schools she’d heard of, but when she heard the cost, she changed her mind about trying for those. Luckily for us, she’s frugal! We have a great in-state option that is D1 and will be affordable, but she probably isn’t good enough to run for it unless she has significant improvement next year. But, she is good enough for some of the D3 or maybe D2 options. Hastomen - Wash U., and Denison are colleges we’ve thought about. We’d love to explore those and just see how running might play into the equation of admissions there.

As gointhruaphase points out, sounds like running may not even give her an admissions edge at some schools, let alone any $. A boy on her team got a “preferred walk-on” at a D1 school and apparently a significant scholarship, although that may just be rumor. Can anyone enlighten me on the difference between walk-on, recruit, and preferred walk-on?

Anyway, sounds like we definitely need to continue to focus on academic merit aid. I’d be happiest if she got into a college that we can afford solely on her academics, and then she can decide if she’d like to try to run if she’s competitive for that college’s team. That way, she doesn’t have to run in order to maintain a scholarship, etc. I guess that would mean showing up for tryouts during the first few weeks of school? Do many kids do that? I kind of had the impression that she needed to go the formal recruitment route if she wanted any chance of being on the team. Maybe that depends entirely on the school? Regardless, hopefully she’ll agree that this is the best route to take rather than focusing primarily on where she would have the best chance of being on the team.

Sorry for the long posts and thanks again to all for the great advice -

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I could be wrong, but I thought at the D1/D2 level, a recruited walk-on is the same as a preferred walk-on. Twoinanddone will tell you the significance as far as pre-season meals and whatnot.

At the D3 level, it is much simpler. You either are recruited or you are not. If you are not recruited and you want to try out for a team, then you “walk on” by trying out for the team. In my view, if you are going to try to walk-on at the D3 level, you may as well try to be recruited. Even for coaches who cut recruits, if it is close, the roster place is going to the recruit over the walk-on. If you ask why, just check out the threads of folks who spent the time and energy to be recruited and are concerned because they would have chosen another school if they knew they would be cut.

Have your daughter start with a huge list of colleges (from safety to dream to I would never dream of colleges) and have her do her coach’s “homework” by filling out the questionnaires. The questionnaires are not an effective means of communication. Rather, I believe they serve the function of filing cabinet – keeping the vital information about the recruits in one location for the coach. Email or calls are much better means of conveying interest. So she should separately send emails stating interest and times to the coaches. See if you get any traction. Then analyze the list from the perspective of merit aid, using the list Hastomen gave you. Invite yourself to speak to a few coaches. That will give you a fairly good sense of where your daughter will fit in.

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I think the preferred walk on designation is for headcount sports, and maybe only a few sports? I know there are rules for D1 football ‘preferred walk ons’ and I think it has to do with preventing schools from getting around the maximum number of recruits with full scholarships by just giving the rest ‘preferred walk on’ status and giving them full financial aid scholarships. The schools have to report the contacts they’ve had with those recruits and I think there are restrictions on those players attending early camps because they aren’t part of the team. If there were no restrictions, a school,like Stanford could just give out 85 football scholarships and call everyone else a walk on and give them need based scholarships, having in effect 105 players on full financial aid.

My daughter’s coach gives everyone at least a small scholarship because then she can feed them all and doesn’t have to worry about any rule differences between scholarship athletes and walk ons,but I don’t think it matters any ore for game day eals and practice time snacks.

You can certainly ask the coaches about the differences in recruits, assists with admission, walk ons. I got a lot of information when I said I didn’t understand how merit aid/need based aid/ outside scholarships worked, and of course sometimes got different answers. I’d just ask ‘what’s the difference between a recruit and a walk on?’ Or ask if they are treated differently.

I agree with trying to be a recruit if you can. Why not? If you aren’t recruited in the end, you haven’t lost anything and can still be a walk-on.

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Startingblock - Funny that you should compare Emory and William and Mary because those are two schools she’s interested in and I was automatically thinking Emory would be less demanding for running since it’s Division 3. You’re right that I probably need to look more closely at each individual program to see the travel schedule, etc. There may not be that big of a difference. Thanks for that perspective.

As several of you have noted, I guess it doesn’t hurt for her to go ahead and fill out the recruitment forms and start to talk to some schools she likes to see if they might be a good fit. My husband and I, I think, are afraid of her letting recruitment and/or an opportunity to run dominate the college selection process. Our primary focus has to be on finances first, then academic fit, and then running as a bonus if it works out. Hopefully we can find somewhere with all three things.

Thanks again for the advice - I’m guessing I’ll be posting lots more as we wade into this process. :slight_smile:

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One thing you could do to get a sense of what kind of schools she might fit at, from a track perspective, is to look at results for the conference championships at the schools she’s thinking of. Generally for recruits coaches are looking for people who have the potential to score at that meet. Most teams will also have walk ons who may not be up to that standard.

You can also look at the marks for current college athletes, and what marks they had in high school, at places like TFRRS, athletic.net, etc. For track anyway, this is a bit harder to see in XC as the courses vary.

Full ride scholarships aren’t too common in track - it’s an equivalency sport, in D1 with the equivalent of 18 scholarships for women and 12.5 for men, IIRC - but some money and/or help with admissions are easier to come by.

IMO distance runners have somewhat of an advantage in recruiting over other those in other events, as they can compete in both XC and track, but on the other hand they have pretty much a full year season between XC, indoor track (if applicable), and outdoor track.

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Thanks Bluewater - great advice on how to look for schools where her times might be an asset. I’m on milesplit, but will check out those other sites and conference results as well.

Glad to hear that distance runners have an advantage, but you’re right about the downside of a year-long commitment. She has struggled with that somewhat in high school too and has found it almost impossible to participate much in other ECs because of how much time xc and track consume. They have a very small break in the summer, but have mileage to get in pretty much every day during the summer too. I would hate to see her not have the time to fully participate in college life. I’ve been reading the “Open letter to the athlete I must stop recruiting” thread and the link to the study on how much time college athletes spend on their sports was eye-opening.

Thanks again all -

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While we’ve done D3 recruiting for soccer, not running, I’d be very surprised that an athlete at a D1, like William & Mary, would have a schedule similar to that at a D3 such as Emory. The division and the conference sets the number of hours in practice, permitted captain’s practices etc. So while the schools may be very similar in feel, the fact that they are in different divisions is going to make a huge difference in the athlete’s day-to-day life. The general description we have heard of a D1 athlete is that it is like having a full time job, in season, on top of academics.

The advantage of a D3 model is that there is more flexibility and communication between the academic and athletic side, at least with the schools and coaches my kid met with. Coaches talked quite specifically, for ex, about how pre-med kids got their labs in, and how they dealt with academic/athletic conflicts. Since D3 kids are not dependent on their athletic scholarship in order to afford and stay at the school, I would imagine they would feel more comfortable putting academics first.

There are a number of LACs out there which do offer merit aid, and a student who brings a strong portfolio of achievement – academic/artistic/athletic – can get generous merit. Denison awards range from $16k-$24k a year, and there are tippy-top full tuition awards as well. Dickinson tops out at $20k, I believe. St. Lawrence gives in the $20s as well, though I cannot recall its max amount. Gettysburg also gives merit, though again, I cannot recall the ranges. Kenyon, Oberlin and Grinnell all give merit awards as well, but typically fewer, and not as large (from anecdote). NESCACs don’t give merit, and Franklin & Marshall switched a few years ago to financial aid only model, no merit. Bard has a funny hybrid model which is hard to figure out.

Meeting with coaches during college visits helped my kid, and all of us, develop some judgment about different programs. Talking with a coach in their office for 20 minutes can tell you a lot, not just about schedules, recruiting needs etc., but also the coach’s intensity, personality etc. We met with coaches who were confrontational and baited our kid, as well as coaches who were visibly emotional as they talked about former players. We also watched matches when we could, to see the caliber of play, style of play, and coaching style – I don’t know if attending meets would for a runner would provide that same insight into a coach’s style.

Good luck, it can be an enjoyable process, we have great memories of road trips around the east coast and midwest!

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Emmy here is something i wrote a couple of years back - my son is now entering his Junior year:

My S has “verbally” committed to run D1 and I thought i would share my experiences as to how it came about as so it might help someone:

We started the process in the fall of his JUNIOR year. knowing that he was not a top Tier 1 type of recruit but possibly lower Tier 1/Tier 2 recruit.

Research the schools that you are looking at; understand the program and what they are trying to accomplish. Find out if they offer athletic scholorships for running, you would be surprised at how many do not.

Taking OV’s is difficult with the timing - XC season can run into late November and then the school’s do not want you after thanksgiving due to Finals. by the time the schools return in session you are about to start running the important Indoor Track events. I recommend taking the OV’s in early September. This will give you a feel for the school and also keep you menatally fresh for your team. Do not want to be running Counties on Saturday thinking about how you are going to XYZ U on Sunday for an overnight

you have to decide also is running going to help me get into a school that i might normally not have gotten into or am i looking to maximize my potential scholarship $$$?

Email the coaches with updates and when sending in your times to them, provide a link so they can easily verify. Fill out the athletic questionaire onthe web site - it helps get you in the coaches data base.

Visit the school if you can - contact the coach and let them know you are going to be there and if you could stop by and introduce yourself.

Understand the climate that you are looking at - if you are from a warm weather state going U of Vermont might not be a great fit…it gets cold running in 20 degree weather. Think also about altitude, running in the mountains can be beautiful but at 4,000 feet oxygen is at a premium.

The school he ended up verbally committing to he would not have gotten into without running

Remember T&F scholorships are RENEWABLE yearly, so if they are offering you 25% this year and you fall way down the pecking order… So when picking a school reminder to pick one that you want to go to studay at as well.

Now to update:

as i stated the school he went to was one he would not have gotten into academic wise - after 2 years he is on schedule to graduate a semester early (if he wants) as a double major in Marketing & Project Management with a 3.0 (not earth shattering but doing ok). Time commitment - running D1 is JOB - 20+ hours a week, here is a quick recap of his fall workout schedule:

Keeping the same practice schedule as usual:
7:00am Monday + XC train eve
7:00am Tuesday + Weights
7:30am/OYO Wednesday + XC train eve
7:00am Thursday + Weights
7:00am Friday
OYO/Race Saturday
8:00am Sunday

Do not pick a school for a coach, unless she is going to Oregon or another top tier school they change quickly. Out of the final 6 schools, 4 changed coaches with the year - including the one he picked and that was before he arrived on campus for his 1st day!!!

He would not change anything he has done.

If i can be of any help please let me know - Good luck and enjoy the memories

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Except for some of the Power 5 conference schools that do give 4 year scholarships, most athletic Grant in Aid awards are for 1 year only. Coaches can make promises not to reduce the aid and there are a few things that can benefit the student if the aid isn’t renewed and the athlete transfers (no sitting out a year), but really it is just a trust thing between the coach and the athlete if the award will be renewed.

My daughter’s coach said she wouldn’t reduce the aid if the level of commitment was there. We have one athlete who gets more than everyone else because the coach kept her promise not to reduce. Doesn’t make the rest of us very happy.

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My experience is generally D1, but my son looked at all levels when he was originally coming out of high school. There are varying levels of D1, big powerhouses, all the way down to very small D1s that are at the bottom of a small conference.

I will say the commitment and dedication required at a D1 is greater than D3. At the D3 visits (only 2) we went to, coaches talked about doing other sports in the offseason, and minimal travel in season (bus trips no flights…). In D1 there is never an off season. Track athletes will be on campus early (especially cross country) and will always be in some form of pre-season training, it is a full year commitment. In competition season, schoolwork and classes will be secondary to training and competition. The differentiator for my son was the level of coaching available for his event, he does a field event and the D3 schools that were appealing academically, did not have good coaching for him, but ironically many had great cross country or distance coaches which could be perfect for your daughter.

We have gone through the recruiting process twice, since he transferred, and found that the best situation for our family was possible at the D1 level, where he has received a combination of both academic money (because of grades) and a partial athletic scholarship. The academic money has conditions – min. GPA, fulltime course load etc. The athletic money is, as others have said renewable on a year to year basis and I know examples of where teammates of my son have seen changes to their scholarship packages – both good and bad. In our case, my son met performance criteria set out by the coach and has had his % scholarship increased slightly. Our approach, for recruiting was to agree on a family budget per year, we made sure my son was aware of the dollar figure, and we explored all options to keep us in the range. We are solidly middle class and are not eligible for any need based aid. Most D1 academic money is awarded by admissions and requires submitting your application within the regular timeframe. For us, this meant applying to all schools my son was interested in ahead of talking to any of the coaches.

It will be up to your daughter and/or you to make sure the balance of school and academics is correct. In my son’s case, even at his first school, which prides itself on academics, the advisor for the team tried to steer him away from his STEM major since lab classes conflicted with practice. At his second school (both D1s), my son negotiated what he wanted going in, but to be blunt, the school is in a weaker athletic conference and my son performance gives him more leverage. His events coach has individual practice with him so he can remain an engineering major.

In our original recruiting discussions we did talk to the William & Mary coach but the coach did not offer my son any athletic money and the school was out of our $ range. All they offered him was admission, but that did not stop the coach from calling both my son and my husband and I multiple times trying to convince us as to why we should send my son there and pay full price. We were unprepared for the “sales” pitch that some coaches do, but as others have pointed out you know what is best for your child and will need to be their advocate in the process. My son begrudgingly talked to all coaches himself until finances came up and then handed over the phone.

If you have schools you are interested in, fill out the recruiting forms and email the coaches directly. My son did not get any recruiting calls until Jan of his senior year and by then all academic scholarship applications were due already. Many of the well-respected coaches in his event have a “you’ll come to me” approach to recruiting. My son was nationally ranked for his event and still did not get unsolicited calls from anyone noteworthy. Certainly for boys (only 12.6 scholarships spread across the whole team), lots of coaches offer admission, few offer any significant money. Large dollars/full rides are reserved for multi-event track athletes – an athlete who can score at sprints, jumps and relays or a thrower who can score at all throwing disciplines.

Recruiting for us ended up all too similar to car shopping. It seems everyone you know is talking about someone they know who got a better deal, but at the end of the process, what you need to walk away with is a school you can afford and a university your son/daughter is happy attending regardless of how their athletics career goes.

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^@OnTrack2013 this is funny: “Recruiting for us ended up all too similar to car shopping. It seems everyone you know is talking about someone they know who got a better deal”

I am not suggesting the DI and DIII track experiences are identical but for a distance runner a high mileage coach is a high mileage coach, regardless of athletic division. You can only do so much running and weights and over training leads to injury and/or decreased performance.