But one could posit the people objecting to how their publics schools are run or the curriculum being taught don’t feel included or comfortable which is why they want to change things.
It’s impossible for everyone to always feel comfortable. Included and accepted can be worked on.
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Absolutely! I’m simply pointing out that it’s easy to say “everyone should feel accepted and included” but that phrase doesn’t necessarily mean the same thing to every person.
Wrong guess, but no biggie. I brought in the Civil War to point out the majority in a community can be as committed to an exclusion belief to start a war on it. That doesn’t make them right or mean we should give in to them. Russia’s dealing with Ukraine has the same underpinnings. Humans don’t really change over time.
And in the same light, when what they need to make them feel included or comfortable is to pretend another group doesn’t exist by banning even the mentioning of them or pictures in a book, a mural on the wall, etc, the line needs to be drawn and say, “sorry,” they’re as human as you are and get the same rights."
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I’d still like to better understand what it is that it so objectionable that they see the need to “change things”
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And that’s what’s happening. And it will play out across the country. You’ll win some and you’ll lose some. The country is already polarized and these conflicts will further entrench that situation.
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I’d suggest starting with what happened recently in Virginia.
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Which is what, exactly? That the candidate for governor said a dumb thing that was easy to exploit?
It’s politics and culture wars.
That is not my experience. Does your librarian have a degree in library science and did (s)he obtain it in the last 15 years? I’m honestly curious because a librarian who acts as you describe would not be acting in accord with what I’ve seen taught in a library science program. Waiting for a student to ask for suggestions before offering any isn’t what school and public library youth librarians are trained to do.
OK. So we can agree that it has nothing to do with the education of children. That’s exactly what the astroturfing in Florida is about: politics and culture wars. Kids lose.
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It has to do with how and what children are taught and not everyone agrees. When people don’t agree you have opinion and debate.
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From Newsweek:
During a debate in September, McAuliffe, who served as Virginia’s governor from 2014 to 2018, said, “I don’t think parents should be telling schools what they should teach.”
McAuliffe also said that he was “not going to let parents come into schools and actually take books out and make their own decisions.”
Many posters in this thread have made statements which agree with McAuliffe’s. I doubt that they think what he said was “dumb.”
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No doubt. Some want Civil War II. It’s sad.
It should be so easy to live and let live. If you don’t want to read a book, whether it’s the Bible or Two Boys Kissing (#8 on the original list) don’t. If others want to, they can. If you don’t like a mural whether it’s an LGBTQ flag or the American flag, look away. If others like it, fine.
Not once in human history is everyone going to like the same thing. But we’re all on the planet together and get to live our lives the way we want to, including in public schools. One would think in 2022 that’s easy to understand.
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Well, no one in my community seems exclusionary at all. They want what they want. But I’ve never seen anyone be excluded. I’ll leave the Ukrainian Russian issue alone as it’s world politics and not allowed to be discussed. IMO, Humans do change over time. It’s not acceptable to do a lot of things they once were glossed over. Humans have done an amazing job understanding how to avoid world wars, work to eradicate disease and so much more. I have a very optimistic view of humanity. Most people are really kind and hard working. YMMV.
Really. You think because they want change it’s objectionable rather than thoughtful and progress? The conversations I’ve heard relative to school have been making the system better and using resources wisely. Change doesn’t have to be confrontational. It’s only the people who think of it as zero sum who can only see one side losing rather than people meeting in the middle. Agreement is hard but division is much worse. I can see so many ways to make it work for all. Let every school board decide what they will teach and let parents opt out for another resource if it’s objectionable. If there are a lot opting out, they’ll likely go with another book. Honestly, what are we talking about? Probably a tiny fraction of kids opting out of something.
Where? Because yes, our librarians at my district in PA have degrees in library science and yes, they wait for students to ask for guidance if they want some. The most they do otherwise is set up displays as @jeneric mentioned. Those displays are often topical - New Books, Thanksgiving, Autobiographies, our school even had one for Banned Books in history once.
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But that is not what is happening! These groups- Moms for Liberty, Woke PA, FCA - they don’t want the “opt out” option, that already exists in every school I know. They want to deny EVERY student the right to get that book at the school library or have it as part of the curriculum.
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This discussion is such a great example of Hidden Tribes…
’
The ‘Wings’ have been running things for a while - most social media active, loudest at meetings, no holds barred in option expression. It looks like the ‘Exhausted Majority’ has gotten involved and the ‘Wings’ are really, really upset.
’ Political polls and years of knife-edge elections have convinced many that our country has become a 50:50 society, divided into two opposing political tribes and trapped in a spiral of conflict and division.
Our research uncovered a different story, one that probes underneath the issues that polarize Americans, and finds seven groups that are defined by their core beliefs, rather than by their political opinions, race, class or gender.
In talking to everyday Americans, we have found a large segment of the population whose voices are rarely heard above the shouts of the partisan tribes. These are people who believe that Americans have more in common than that which divides them. While they differ on important issues, they feel exhausted by the division in the United States. They believe that compromise is necessary in politics, as in other parts of life, and want to see the country come together and solve its problems.
In the era of social media and partisan news outlets, America’s differences have become dangerously tribal, fueled by a culture of outrage and taking offense. For the combatants, the other side can no longer be tolerated, and no price is too high to defeat them.’
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Any chance you read the link about painting over the mural that I put on here (today’s news)? Because there were quotes in there from kids who certainly don’t feel welcome in their school.
They can be illegal now, but plenty are in prison. The actions haven’t stopped overall.
This is true. It’s sad that a loud few can disrupt it all TBH.
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Well, while I don’t follow any of those groups, I believe your probably right. They probably don’t want any of these books in the schools.
IMO, a lot of the “activism” over the last 5 years hasn’t been about giving more people a voice but about making sure that only one voice is heard. Cancel culture and all the rests. The tide has turned. People on the other side are fighting back. The anger is toxic on both sides.
It seems to infuriate people that anyone would fight for their agenda. But I’ve seen this for years.
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