Sure it would, especially if the images that described or presented out of the context in which they appear. That’s why supposed “pornography” is used as a pretext to go after broader issues like race and LGBTQ+ issues. That’s the purpose of pretext. Use one idea (out-of-context snippets of supposed “pornography”) to advance another (further marginalizing LGBTQ+ groups and issues.)
2 Likes
I still want to know why sex needs to be hidden from high schoolers, but violence doesn’t.
We don’t want kids doing either, right? So why is one ok to have in a book and the other not?
5 Likes
If those someones are also trying to ban books depicting families with two fathers (or defending such attempts), then yes, I seriously want to say that those someones don’t want want LGBTQ+ issues normalized.
Likewise, if the same group doxes and attempts to shame LGBTQ+ teenagers by posting images and videos of them (barely) kissing in public, then yes, I want to seriously say that the group doesn’t want LGBTQ+ issues normalized. https://twitter.com/Moms4LibertyWC/status/1439420782250188802?s=20&t=JbgfgwTXVALSKBWiqwxy8g
Whatever you or I may think of any single out-of-context panel from a single book, there is a broader agenda being pushed by people who don’t want LGBTQ+ issued normalized.
1 Like
Your choice of using Playboy magazine as an example of material to be banned from school libraries is totally disingenuous. Playboy has always been about objectification and degradation of women. The books which have been cited as “pornographic” don’t degrade anyone, they simply reflect the reality that a certain group of people want to pretend doesn’t exist.
Frankly, I’d have at least some respect for the group if they wanted to ban Hemingway since his books are dedicated to glorifying violence and toxic masculinity. Those behaviors certainly exist but we shouldn’t pretend that emulating them is good for anyone. Still, banning books is fundamentally wrong and I don’t support it any more than I support any other forms of fascism.
1 Like
But that’s not why you don’t find it in schools.
Can we move on from straw man fallacies please; Playboy is not found in school libraries.
And once again, let’s leave the personal anecdotes out if they have nothing to do with book banning.
1 Like
This is where experts come in handy.
2 Likes
Only if one has faith in their expertise. In this case, I do not think so.
Promoting literacy or life-long reading doesnt appear to be a priority goal for the American Library Assn website anymore, the experts who endorsed some of these books. That is okay, but that group appears to have just as much of an agenda as Liberty moms.
The vast majority of us just want a reasonable point in the middle.
1 Like
As any lawyer will tell you, you can always find an expert to support your position/pov. They’re not bias free regardless of the area of expertise.
2 Likes
A librarian with an agenda, that’s a scary thought.
I thought all their jobs entailed was to “shhh” people.
1 Like
I thought it was to encourage reading and literacy activities. Silly me, that must have been only in the last century
1 Like
I love when posters tell lawyers how “any lawyer” will address an issue.
I won’t speak for @CateCAParent, but when I refer to leaving these decisions to “experts” I am not referring to witnesses hired to provide “expert” testimony in litigation. Rather, I refer to those who, through training and experience, have developed an expertise in determining whether a topic or text is educationally valuable and developmentally appropriate for students at various levels.
While such experts may not be infallible, they are in much better position to make these decisions than are populist parent groups pushing specific, narrow agendas that reflect only their values, and fail to include all the perspectives with which they may disagree. One need only look at the list of books in the OP to see the folly of allowing populist fervor shape our educational system.
6 Likes
Huh, I always thought that’s the parents job. That must be so 20th century.
Just keep the funny smells out of the library.
And that’s where local school boards and parents come in - bringing oversight and community standards onto the equation. One size does not fit all 
3 Likes
And this is exactly what the parents objecting to these books and what’s being taught in their local schools are saying. Funny how it can be applied to both sides.
And they have bias as well. That was my point. You can find an expert to support your “side” whether it’s COVID, climate change, educationally appropriate materials because experts have their own biases.
2 Likes
Has the topic of banning music come up here on this thread? Because, explicit lyrics are all over the place in a lot of music produced today. I mean a lot.
5 Likes
Where we differ is regarding the idea that children ought to be taught according to “community standards” when teaching according to those standards is contrary to best practices and/or where “community standards” do not accurately reflect the world in which we live. That’s what happened with Lost Cause mythology, creationism in schools, etc., and it is what is happening again today with LGBTQ+ issues and race issues.
For one example, IMO, community standards shouldn’t be followed if they require public schools and their libraries to pretend that LGBTQ+ people either don’t exist, or that they are immoral or similar. That’s what is at issue here, as can be seen by the books on the list in the OP.
Not really. The difference is matter of inclusion vs. exclusion.
LGBTQ+ groups aren’t arguing that all books depicting non-LGBTQ+ people be excluded from school libraries and Curriculum. They aren’t arguing that schools must teach that the only natural and decent way of life is a LGBTQ+ lifestyle.
Biases aside, and leaving aside the off-topic issues, the reality is that LGBTQ+ people (including kids) exist. I guess you can call me biased because I’d like the educational system (library books, Curriculum, etc) to accurately reflect this reality. But, IMO, it is a totally different level of bias when parental groups try to deny this reality and question the morality and rightful existence of marginalized members of the community.
7 Likes