I also am grateful for this thread. I love that so many people are diligent in their desire to ensure that the concerns of all parents are incorporated into the equation. I’m also grateful because it has opened my eyes to the amazingly large number of people who are perfectly willing to outsource their responsibility to unknown “experts” with no real stake in the outcome.
I’m grateful, because this thread has opened my eyes to the few “WAY too involved” parents who believe they can dictate their desired outcome(s) to the many.
And they don’t even seem to realize that the music their kids listen to or the gaming their kids play online is MUCH worse than the books they’re trying to ban.
My reco is to relax.
I think I’m the only one that got a homework assignment out of this thread!
I not not hypothesizing about the reasons people might have to ban books, I am discussing the actual reasons books have been banned as indicated by the groups which are getting them banned.
Unfortunately, books are being banned based solely on the views of groups like the one who created the list in the OP. These organizations overrun and disrupt school board meetings, bully the boards and other participants, send and post threatening messages on online and in social media, accuse board members, teachers, administrators, and librarians of “grooming” and criminal behavior, and threaten them with loss of job, criminal prosecution, etc.
In this regard, A closer look at the book banning in Walton County may be worthwhile:
- A zealous anti-LGBTQ+ and “family values” organization, the Florida Citizens Alliance, sent their 2021 version of their Porn in Schools Report to school districts across Florida. The Report included a list of 58 books to be removed from schools and school libraries, and the group made no secret that they were targeting, among other things, "LGBTQ-focused books.”
- The group didn’t just demand the books be removed, they claimed that "school districts are willfully grooming our children” and threatened that keeping these books in school libraries was a violation of Florida anti-porn laws, a felony.
- Based on the Report, the Superintendent in Walton County unilaterally ordered that all listed books found the Walton County school libraries be removed. At the time he had the books removed, he indicated that he had not “read one paragraph of the books at this time” and that he might unilaterally remove more books. He appears to have relied solely on the Report, which didn’t even discuss the supposedly offensive nature most of the books.
- Unilaterally removing the books without even bothering to read them appears to be in direct violation not only of the First Amendment rights of the students ( Island Trees School District v. Pico (1982) - Bill of Rights Institute), but also the County’s own policies and procedures, which required that written challenges to particular books be evaluated by a by a committee of teachers, education media specialists, parents, and students who read and discuss the material. https://www.walton.k12.fl.us/_cache/files/d/b/dbda41ec-624d-49ab-b61d-b8fd43cb5e0f/DE3E06916869CA545F0BBD7B47362678.policies-as-of-3.9.22.pdf
Here is a closer examination of this particular banning in Walton County (the one discussed in the OP), and the various rights involved, followed by a more detailed discussion of the 1st Amendment Rights of the Students and a discussion of many of the books targeted in the list in the OP.
A targeted pretext as you mention several times still does not convince everyone that someone is anti-anything. These folks in the OP are against particular books for particular reasons. But that doesn’t mean that any parent or person is anti-LGBTQ or anything else because they don’t want a particular book in a classroom. They might also not want a book about certain subjects like rape or anything else. Not everything is about race or lgbtq issues. Some people don’t really see that in every interaction. Some do.
I don’t want religious books taught in the classroom, doesn’t mean I’m against religion.
I don’t see this as banned books at all but as reviewed books obviously some here think the experts should decide and some want parents to have a voice. Some think no one should have a voice unless it agrees with their voice.
Ban a book, that’s OK. But don’t even think of taking the chips and soda.
Or the popcorn. The popcorn stays.
Just so you know that you aren’t totally alone, I hadn’t read the book for decades and couldn’t even remember the details of the snippets that were allegedly too graphic, so I reread it. It was doubly interesting because I borrowed my kid’s heavily annotated version so I got a live play-by-play of their thought process while they read it. I’ll not poison your listen with my thoughts, but I’d be interested in reading what you think of the book.
When a group admits to targeting “LGBTQ-related books” and treats sympathetic depictions of families with LGBTQ parents or kids as “indoctrination” and an attempt at “normalization,” I think it is reasonable to say that, at the very least, their actions are anti-LGBTQ, regardless of their beliefs.
Yes, that group. But throwing everyone who disagrees with your position into that group isn’t warranted and that was always my point. No one on this thread has said anything anti-lgbtq that I have read. So why broad brush your argument?
But, realistically, how do we do that and is that really what is happening? if ALL concerns are incorporated what is left? If everyone can choose to remove/delete/ban (choose your word) then the Venn diagram that remains will likely be pretty milquetoast. Is that really the ultimate goal? Someone doesn’t like a word, a concept, the inclusion of war or violence, LGBTQ themes, evolution, climate change, love, pick your offensive topic and it disappears? People are easily offended.
Except parents didn’t have a voice. A national group identified their books of concern and the Superintendent of Schools unilaterally removed the books (without review if the reporting is correct). Walton county parents didn’t have a say. Again, as above, there are “groups” out there that find lots of things offensive. Everyone gets their voice - but everyone ultimately doesn’t get their way. Yes, I know that is your point - except your point is that the impacted parents should have a voice and that’s not necessarily what is happening. The one with the loudest voice shouldn’t necessarily be the one who wins and yet, IMO, that is what is currently happening.
I’m not broad brushing anything. I am specifically discussing actual book bans, and describing why books are actually being banned. That’s the topic of the thread.
Yes, 100% happens a lot in society. The great thing is, we as parents do get to share the books we love and the books we think are important with our kids ( and grandkids). In schools, they’ll fight it out. No way around it. Has been going on for decades. Just look at the list of books which have been banned.
IMO, it’s less about winning and more about getting information we think is important to the kids we love. I’ve never asked to opt my kids out of any books. Some weren’t my taste but exposure is huge. Sadly, society has taken a turn where many think you must accept my opinion but I don’t have to accept yours. And if you don’t accept what I think I will call you names or place you in a category where I think you belong. Because I said so.
Yet this is exactly what is happening when zealous anti-LGBTQ groups try to rid schools and school libraries of anything “LGBTQ-related,” including the name calling.
And, no, it doesn’t go both ways. LGBTQ+ supporters aren’t trying to exclude accurate depictions of non-LGBTQ individuals. There is a fundamental difference between wanting to exclude vs. asking to be included.
Well said,@Htas! Perhaps more citizens should get involved in the school’s choices. If you don’t like the choices the school board is making, that is what elections are for-see, SF school board recall, for example. Civic involvement is a good thing, and public officials should be able to defend their positions to their constituents. That’s how it is supposed to work…
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Perhaps the wisest words I’ve read on CC today.
Thanks. I love democracy, it’s tough and produces results. I’ve seen a drift toward shutting people’s opinion’s down but that seems to be coming around. In our town & school meetings, everyone’s voice is heard. No one would dare present a one sided argument and expect to go unchallenged. Even the kids have strong opinions. I’m sure the kids give feedback on the books they read. I’d love to be a fly on the wall.
Finally!
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