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Saying everyone should always get As and Bs is like saying "Okay, this year a lot of really really really smart kids took the AP English test, and they all did pretty well, so that means that they should all get 4s and 5s." It defeats the purpose.
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<p>Um actually, that's how it works. That's why over 80% of the people who took the AP Chinese test got a 5.</p>
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Saying everyone should always get As and Bs is like saying "Okay, this year a lot of really really really smart kids took the AP English test, and they all did pretty well, so that means that they should all get 4s and 5s." It defeats the purpose.
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<p>Um...well, Thomas Jefferson IS the school where they have people taking 16 APs and 5-ing all of them...so yeah, that's exactly how it is. I don't think you realize exactly how amazing the kids at this school is.</p>
<p>The AP tests how well a student knows the material on a college standard level, thus comparing all students in all schools on that same level. In a top school with a rigorous curriculum, then, where the classes are taught at such a high level, it's only expected that the majority of the class get 4s and 5s.</p>
<p>Students are not being compared to just their classmates -- they are being compared to all students in the US. Cs, Ds, and Fs exist for unsatisfactory work. If everyone hands in satisfactory work, then what right do teachers have to give them unsatisfactory grades?</p>
<p>EVERY SINGLE person stepping into TJ is a over/high achiever. The school knows this and made "B" a failing grade. Why not? it's a win-win situation, the school gets reputation and the students work harder. Besides, the percentage of students actually getting kicked out is VERY small and only like 2-3 people don't graduate each year. </p>
<p>This is NOT grade inflation. For instance - a kid at a school gets A's in every subject and scores straight 5's on his AP test while the majority of his peers are "mediocre". You wouldn't say that there is grade inflation at this school just because of this one kid, right? Just put it this way, TJ is a school that collects ONLY these type of kids.</p>
<p>I think this brings up the issue of how teachers should grade students. Should teachers base grades on the class performance as a whole, or on the work of individual students as compared to a standard set by the teacher. I know most of my teachers grade in the latter way. That's probably what's contributed to so-called "grade inflation."</p>
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Students are not being compared to just their classmates -- they are being compared to all students in the US. Cs, Ds, and Fs exist for unsatisfactory work. If everyone hands in satisfactory work, then what right do teachers have to give them unsatisfactory grades?
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<p>I though the point of magnet schools is to give people a challenge that they wouldn't otherwise have at their home schools. How does this work if their GPA is end up being the same as what they would be at their home school?</p>
<p>Yes, but at the same time most students who get admitted to magnet schools know how to step it up. Once the curriculum becomes a challenge, they rise to that level, again.</p>
<p>Why would they bother with even having grades less than a B if a C is considered failing? Grade inflation occurs when bell-curves aren't employed, and I doubt that they're kicking out ~60% of their student body annually (the ones with Cs, Ds, and Fs by the bell curve model).</p>
<p>Edit: Regarding the differential difficulties of various school, I was under the impression that the AdComs receive some sort of "report" detailing the rigor of the academic curriculum, or something like that. Rank and test scores also guard against grading shenanigans and are used to check a students personal competency in light of "mismatched" stats.</p>
<p>just entering this thread now, but...</p>
<p>Honestly, TJ doesn't need to just have anything below B be failing. Off the top of my head, many nyc high schools are similarly competitive...but still have the regular A B C D F's in a bell curve. Does it hurt them in admissions? No! Because the colleges know that their grades are amazing! Anecdotally, one of my friends failed out of 1 of his 2 languages (F ---not a C) and was still accepted at three ivies! </p>
<p>Also, the argument that "everybody should be getting good grades because they are smart" is flawed. Top colleges like columbia employ bell curves even when students would likely be in the top percents of other schools. Grades are meant to differentiate students---A is different from B from C. If they can't differentiate, it says to me the courses aren't <em>that</em> amazing or insanely hard or whatever.</p>
<p>If anything below B is failing, teachers at TJ will have more incentive on giving A's to students on the mere fact that they know one bad grade will determine the fate of the student in question. Surely the teachers at TJ would not want their students getting expelled. This will lead to more grade inflation.</p>
<p>One the other hand, other people are saying that he was "unqualified" to get accepted to TJ. In that case, it was the school's fault for having such a one-sided admissions policy. Matthew had 2.8 GPA from grade school, clearly not a hard worker (relatively speaking). Yet, coincidentally he was able to score high enough on the standardized test, which alone is what TJ only cares about. Simply put, Matthew was a lazy student (relatively speaking), but a high test taker. Should we really be blaming Matthew? It was TJ who determined that Matthew was "good enough" on the sole basis of one single test.</p>
<p>We need to criticize TJ's erroneous one sided admissions policy, not Matthew.</p>
<p>It's not anything below B = failing. It's anything below a B (cumulative? I think? That's how my school does it anyway) GPA = failing. So you can F a class and, if your other classes are As, well, your GPA probably wouldn't be below a B.</p>
<p>There is a huge, huge difference there.</p>
<p>It's not the argument that "everyone gets good grades because they are smart." It's the argument that everyone gets good grades because they put the full extent of their time and effort into getting good grades. These students are exceptional. The best of the best.</p>
<p>And also, it's not being expelled in the conventional sense, it's "this competition is too much for you, so go to a level you'll better compete at." TJ isn't grading people based on these standardized testing scores. It's grading them on grades in classes, as a school should.
Matthew scored high enough on the standardized test probably because he is intelligent. The school was giving him a chance by admitting him. Matthew was lazy, now here are the consequences. Sometimes you don't get another chance.</p>
<p>TJ's erroneous one sided admission policy? It is a school. It is looking for high achievers. It chose the method of a test that students could choose to study or not study for. I think that's probably the fairest way of admitting anyone -- by what they know and what they can figure out, by the potential they can bring to the school. The students' job throughout High School, then, would be to use that potential and show what they are capable of.</p>
<p>Meaning I agree absolutely with powerbomb.</p>
<p>We were told this HS had its more than 100 students of class 2008 accepted by Ivies this year and 24 got in MIT.... Its average SAT scores have been way above the second placeholder in the nation for decade and if a 4 on one of his/her AP tests, he/she would feel "screwed"....</p>
<p>Does this school need to "inflate" its grading system?</p>
<p>well, statistically speaking, only the top 10% of students in a class should get A's,
a class with 30 students should allow only 3 people to get A's
this would be in an ideal world where students are graded according to their peers' performance</p>
<p>Yea, I would NOT want to be graded relative to my peers. What if I have every class with the smartest guy in the school? My work sould be compared to his, instead of being graded according to the standard set by the school board?</p>
<p>The students who attend TJ are very smart and most of them are over achievers. The school doesn't rank its students to make sure they don't kill themselves trying to achieve the top grades in their class. While grade inflation may be a bit of a problem, from what I have observed of the students I know there is that most of them truly deserve those top grades. They work very hard and really learn the material. A standard bell curve would not work at TJ because, well, the students are all exemplary.</p>
<p>It should also be noted that some students do receive C's or lower, especially if you look at individual tests or assignments. Teachers do not give out only A's and B's. It's just that most kids at TJ aren't satisfied with C's and below so they work as hard as they can to be "above average."</p>
<p>With regard to the 3.0 rule, the principal said that he would be willing to reconsider if a student really showed a passion for math and science. Nuti, who was given plenty of warning that he needed to bring his grades up, had C's or lower in all of his core classes. He had an A in physical education, driver's ed (which doesn't even count for credit), and photography. Not exactly the subjects that TJ emphasizes.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that maybe TJ was the right place for Nuti, but if he believed this he needed to take responsibility and work to bring his grades up. It sounds to me like he had plenty warning and plenty of opportunities to meet with teachers (perhaps during the scheduled "8th period" activity blocks during the school day) to get whatever help he needed. If he was only able to maintain a 2.8 during his first two years, he probably would not have done this well the next two (junior year at TJ is said to be absolutely horrendous). I feel sorry for him, but he probably could have handled the situation better.</p>
<p>honestly, if you're a well-regarded school, wouldn't YOU want to kick out the students bringing you down?</p>
<p>not trying to be sadistic or anything, but it's linear logic. more smart people, less sub-par people. </p>
<p>btw. my school does this as well.though i think getting a 3.0 would be ok. it's from 2.9 that it counts.</p>