<p>A degree in Chem E or Biochemistry or Genetics and dozens of other majors from Wisconsin would easily hold up against one from Dartmouth. The president of Dartmouth is a Wisconsin grad.</p>
<p>Sure Bourne. Cal only takes 10% of its class from OOS, so what is your point there? Strike one. That's why all of those private schools that you mentioned, save Cal Tech, are in the top 20 of the Newsweek poll along with quite a few publics. Strike two. That's why Dartmouth and Princeton aren't there. Strike three. Once again, all i stated was that strong graduate schools are a benefit to an undergrad in prestige and credibility. I never meant to imply that a top private school not having a strong graduate school/reasearch base is a detriment. But I can assure you, the vast majority of universities in this country are not strong both in the UG and graduate school rankings in this or any other poll. That's why I say that a strong graduate school makes an undergraduate school better. Btw, Cal, Michigan, Wisconsin, and quite a few other publics are all top schools. I think the Newsweek ranking of top global universities makes sense for the most part.</p>
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Sure Bourne. Cal only takes 10% of its class from OOS, so what is your point there? Strike one. That's why all of those private schools that you mentioned, save Cal Tech, are in the top 20 of the Newsweek poll along with quite a few publics. Strike two. That's why Dartmouth and Princeton aren't there. Strike three. Once again, all i stated was that strong graduate schools are a benefit to an undergrad in prestige and credibility. I never meant to imply that a top private school not having a strong graduate school/reasearch base is a detriment. But I can assure you, the vast majority of universities in this country are not strong both in the UG and graduate school rankings in this or any other poll. That's why I say that a strong graduate school makes an undergraduate school better. Btw, Cal, Michigan, Wisconsin, and quite a few other publics are all top schools. I think the Newsweek ranking of top global universities makes sense for the most part.
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<p>This makes absolutely no sense. Why the hell do I care where Cal gets its class from? Unless you're implying that because they come from California -- it explains the reason for their weaker UG -- which seems to be what prestige is based on? What are you trying to prove?</p>
<p>I never said a top school not having one was detrimental. I only said this...
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So I'm assuming that a degree from Dartmouth lacks a certain kind of credibility that hmm... Wisconsin can provide?
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Graduate programs and research are what truly distinguish a great university and make it prestigious worldwide. Just being associated with them, even at the undergraduate level, gives credibility to a degree one might obtain there.
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<p>Now let's go through syllogistic reasoning.</p>
<p>Premise one. Just being associated with strong graduate programs at the UG level gives credibility to a degree one might obtain.</p>
<p>Premise two -- my own --. Dartmouth's Graduate programs aren't nearly as recognized as Wisconsin's or let's use a broader example -- Berkeley's.</p>
<p>Conclusion -- The Berkeley/Wisconsin UG degree provides some sort of credibility that is lacking from the Dartmouth degree. (I'm by no means saying the Berk degree is better/worse -- just that it provides a kind of credibility not found in programs with weaker grad programs?) Will you respond by saying that that specific "credibility" is found elsewhere in those institutions that have weaker grad programs -- or LAC's?</p>
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But I can assure you, the vast majority of universities in this country are not strong both in the UG and graduate school rankings in this or any other poll. That's why I say that a strong graduate school makes an undergraduate school better.
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<p>This is iffy but w/e. Many LAC's stand on their own merits. Whether strong grad schools would make them better... I'm sure there are plenty here would would dismiss that as drivel.</p>
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Btw, Cal, Michigan, Wisconsin, and quite a few other publics are all top schools. I think the Newsweek ranking of top global universities makes sense for the most part.
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<p>Thanks buddy. Didn't realize that.</p>
<p>As I was saying -- Your original statement,</p>
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Graduate programs and research are what truly distinguish a great university and make it prestigious worldwide. Just being associated with them, even at the undergraduate level, gives credibility to a degree one might obtain there.
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And btw, the only schools for which your statement applies are publics. Privates stand alone. When people think of UCB or UMich -- they often separate UG and Grad programs.
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<p>I'll ease the language. Perhaps it was too harsh.</p>
<p>Your statement would usually apply to publics. Not to privates. I only think public UG degrees are given some -- SOME -- credibility because of their Grad programs. Usually not applicable with private Uni's.</p>
<p>This was a ranking by Newsweek for "global universities." Dartmouth was not included in the top 20, whereas several public schools were. I realize it's inconceivable for some people to fathom this. By the way, why in the hell should I care that they aren't ranked as high? I just stated my opinion of what I feel is the true prestige of a university which happens to concur with Newsweek's. I have my opinions, you are entitled to yours.</p>
<p>^^ I think Princeton is actually ranked #15, which is in the top 20.</p>
<p>Pardon my error rd31. You are correct. I should have only said Dartmouth. Correction made above.</p>
<p>Scary thing is there are prolly idiots out there who are influenced by such lists when choosing which college to attend.</p>
<p>But hey my school actually made this absurd list so no biggie.</p>
<p>LMAO, why is UofT in the list. If any Canadian school should be mentioned it's McGill or UBC or Queens etc. not UofT, they have a 90% acceptance rate for god sakes</p>
<p>EDIT oops I didn't realize this was in the graduate section, nvm I misunderstood the rankings</p>
<p>The acceptance rate for undergrad means little. And where did u get that 90% figure exactly?</p>
<p>UofT has a rather high acceptance rate but the dropout rate is fairly high to compensate. This isn't such a bad idea because it gives the university more revenue from incoming students and it also acknowledges that Highschool grades are extremely subjective so they let more students in and let em prove their worth once in the institution.</p>
<p>The acceptance rate also has no relevance when one is considering how intense the undergrad experience is.</p>
<p>If one wants an intense undergrad experience especially in the sciences and engineering, UofT is almost always the prime Canadian school along with McGill.</p>
<p>It's softer when it comes to the arts but whatever.</p>
<p>I got that figure from Maclean's</p>
<p>Ya...</p>
<p>I'm surprised ppl even read that load of **** anymore.</p>
<p>I'm not sure why there is the wave of unsatisfied people. Is it perhaps because it goes away from we perceive "as the most prestigious colleges"? With all due to respect to Darthmouth, Rice, Emory, and any other privates such as Wake Forest or Notre Dame, your names outside the US is relatively unknown as such your ranking on the "reputation" area is lower and furthermore, your schools were never known as research institutions (which is where schools like UW, UCSD rise). </p>
<p>If you guys read other international rankings, it's actually worth looking at.</p>
<p>About Canadian schools. I don't live in Canada, but I visit there twice a year for almost 10 years. From my experience, U of T is the best in Canada followed by McGill and UBC. I'm not sure why there is someone earlier dissing U of T.</p>
<p>And we seem to have some unhappy customers. Again, these rankings are heavily research influenced where the methodology is COMPLETELY different than US NR. As a such, a institution like Dartmouth or Brown can't possibly hope to rank anywhere close to the top 50 or top 100. Get that drilled into your heads. This is the same way the methodology that US NR uses and causes public institutions to have no hope of the top 15 (and as a result underrate them) and people should just acknowledge that.</p>
<p>Furthermore, you have to realize that the international perception is completely different than the US perception of their own colleges. Outside the 1st level of privates (the top 15 in the US NR), the other privates' reputation plummet FAST. UT Austin is FAR more well known than Rice. Heck, even Texas A&M has a better reputation than Rice internationally. Other schools that rate high on the US NR that fall fast include Wake Forest, U of Rochester, Carnegie Mellon, Vanderbilt, Rice, Emory, Notre Dame, Brandeis University (unfortunetly, this degree outside the US is worth s*it), Case Western University, Mary and Williams, Boston College, Dartmouth (virtual unknown outside US. Sorry), UVa (this was the only public university to fall off fast), Georgia Tech. For the most part, the top elite schools (the top 15) retain a position to where they are perceived to be in the US. After that group, you get a chunk of the elite public institutions such as UC Berkeley, UCLA, UCSD, UM, UW Madison, UW Seattle, UT Austin, UM Minnesota, UM College Park, UIUC that rise because their research are far superior to the former schools listed and their reputation does extend farther out than the former list. If you have a degree on the former list, it just means that you'll more than likely be stuck in the US because your opportunities are all bunched up here. If you have a degree of the later or of the top 15, then your opportunity may extend outside the US.</p>
<p>These are facts and just consider them. As someone said earlier, there are 2 ways to look at these rankings. 1. We're in the US and only US perception matters. US NR would be our ranking! Well, I love US and I'll stay here or 2. We're in a increasingly global world where opportunities might extend outside the US and international reputation may become important. In this case, Shanghai Jiatong, Newsweek, and THES are notable international rankings to take note of. Again, if you look at any of those rankings, you'll realize that the perception outside the US of US universities is COMPLETELY different.</p>
<p>Lastly, I find it hilarious that people earlier thought that Newsweek was making profit. For god's sake, US News Report is the magazine that is reaping profits. They give a new rank with minimal difference every year.
1st, Newsweek didn't even publish this in a magazine. It was published online for everyone to see for FREE. Profit? Don't make me laugh.
2nd, Newsweek is not a hobo like US NR who makes a ranking every year with minimal difference. Newsweek made only ONE rank in 2006 and never created another one because making another one would have minimal difference of 1 or 2 ranks (see how SHJT's ranks. Those have no virtual changes each year).</p>
<p>There are no medical schools on these lists! :(
What about the many medical schools here that have PhD programs? Are they typically considered not as good as their non-medical school counterparts??</p>
<p>Go Harvard!</p>
<p>ahsie, many people base their comments on selectivity, UofT is a great school, I'm not sure if it's the best in Canada but it's definitely in the top 3 even in terms of prestige. McGill and UBC may be more selective but UofT definitely has a reputation of being challenging.</p>
<p>Challenging? Well that is an understatement. I got a buddy who moved to Cali and is at UCDavis after having done 2yrs at UofT and is coasting. He is pretty surprised at just how much of a cakewalk it all is.</p>
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Who, besides a prospective professor, would use these criteria to choose a university? They in no way reflect the quality of education students will receive.
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<p>I thought the point of graduate school- this is the graduate school forum- would want to be a place famous for research. Seems graduate school applicants would use exactly these criteria.</p>