Niece with so-so stats and no parental involvement needs some help on colleges

Parents Forum
1

<p>Long post -- so bear with me, but I really need some input.</p>

<p>My niece (actually my brother's ex-wife's daughter by her first husband) is now living with us and I am trying to help her out. She just turned 20, did not do very well in high school (no motivation, no encouragement) and she really wants to attend college. Her hurdles -- acceptance and finances.</p>

<p>She had a rough childhood -- basically just neglect. She didn't participate in anything because she had to babysit her sisters everyday after school. Biological father had minimal contact and gave no financial support, she and mom clashed severely after she turned 12.</p>

<p>She isn't sure what she is interested in -- but she seems drawn to small schools/LACs where community service/environment are important. One of her passions (really, her only one) is art -- but she had essentially no encouragement during high school, so she doesn't have awards/etc to show for it. She just enjoys it.</p>

<p>Her high school stats: </p>

<p>ACT 22 (26 Reading, 25 English, 20 Math, 18 Science); her previous ACT score was 19. She plans to study and retake to raise the score. I suspect that she could possibly raise it as high as around 26, but she isn't going to get much higher. </p>

<p>She attended a well-respected suburban high school in Kansas that sends probably 5-10% to ivies/top LACs. Her class rank is 253 out of 390 (64%). She graduated in May '07.</p>

<p>Her cumulative weighted GPA is 2.957, unweighted GPA is 2.75. Looking at strictly academic GPA (English/Social Studies/Math/Science/Foreign Language) her unweighted GPA would be 2.77.</p>

<p>She took Spanish through Spanish 4 (but no Spanish after 10th grade), she took a few honors and AP courses, but never took any AP tests. She took tons of art classes (jewelry/painting/drawing/ceramics) but her grades were spotty -- some she did well on, others she did not.</p>

<p>4 years of English, 4 years of math (through Algebra II), 4 years social studies, 4 years foreign language (including middle school classes) and 4 years lab science.</p>

<p>Since high school:</p>

<p>After graduating high school, she spent 6 months volunteering at an orphanage in Ecuador. She paid for this herself (and made all the arrangements herself -- family was not supportive) through a summer job. </p>

<p>After that, she just kind of wandered for about 6 months -- applied to some schools, but couldn't figure out how to pay for them, worked some jobs and lived with her grandparents and/or friends.</p>

<p>Moved in with us in October and we have kept her busy -- she will attend community college, taking 17 hours of academic courses and she plans to get a 4.0 GPA for the semester. I am very familiar with the school -- and we selected classes/professors known for their supportive nature/clear expectations and solid teaching skills. She has an advisor and is part of a support group at the school and she has already toured the resources available (math lab, writing lab, tutoring, etc). I expect her to take full advantage of all resources -- so I expect she will do well. I know several of the professors and she will be able to get excellent recommendations if she does well.</p>

<p>She is working -- full-time while not in school, part-time while in school -- at a doctor's office. She would be able to get an excellent recommendation from them.</p>

<p>She will be attending a National Outdoor Leadership School program this summer -- 30 days backpacking through Colorado. She will pay for this herself along with a scholarship from NOLS. </p>

<p>Finally -- she has applied for CityYear (an Americorps program) for the 2009-2010 school year in Seattle. </p>

<p>So -- in summary: just ok stats for high school, but after high school she demonstrates independence and initiative. Should have great grades for community college, excellent recs and tons of volunteer hours.</p>

<p>What she is looking for -- a small school that she can afford. Nothing overtly Christian, but otherwise she isn't that picky. Affordability is probably most important. Her biological parents will not support her in any way (she was granted a dependency override at the community college) and will be looking for more institutional aid than loans. She will have her Americorps scholarship ($4725) but probably no savings. She will have an EFC of $0, since the Americorp stipend doesn't count as earnings (we have sat down with two FA officers and confirmed all this). Even if her parents provided financial info -- her EFC would be very, very low. Mom does not work (and she is the one on FAFSA) and dad makes very little (waiter) and is married with other kids.</p>

<p>She could claim residency in Kansas, Colorado and/or Washington -- depending on how things work out.</p>

<p>So far -- she has expressed interest in Sterling College, Evergreen State College, Hampshire, Clark, Emory and Henry, Allegheny College and Juniata.</p>

<p>What guidance should I give her? What stats do we look at? I feel like she needs to focus on schools where her high school stats are in the middle of the admitted class and schools that meet 90%+ FA, does that sound right? What schools would be a match/reach for her?</p>

<p>Any suggestions/guidance would be appreciated -- she is planning on applying for schools next fall, so she could do EA if applicable (or early rolling admissions). At this point we are trying to compile a list of 8-10 schools for her to apply to -- I am encouraging this number so that she can compare financial aid packages. She knows that she will need to take out loans to pay for school -- I don't see how she could avoid that -- but she wants to keep the loans at a minimum level of around $20,000 for the four years (and she wants to graduate in 4 years).</p>

<p>Thanks for the help!</p>

2

<p>This may sound like an odd question...but does your community college have a "relationship" with any four year colleges? The CC near here has a relationship with all of the state U's in this state as well as a handful of private universities whereby students from the CC transfer seamlessly to the university and all credits transfer towards a four year degree. This would at least take the issue of high school stats off the plate for this young lady.</p>

<p>One other thing you want to check is the number of students who take the non-traditional route at any school. She probably doesn't want to be the only 21 year old freshman in the school...and at some LACs this could be the case...something worth checking.</p>

<p>I think the Americorp program is terrific and I know it has been a great advantage for a number of students in similar situations to this young lady. </p>

<p>Is there anything in closer proximity to you guys? It sounds like you are an outstanding support system for this young lady.</p>

3

<p>Your niece sounds like a student who is rising above her background. She's the kind of student many schools would love to have, particularly if she does well at community college. </p>

<p>Has she considered doing two years at community college and transferring? Socially, it is not the same as being a freshman at a four year school, but since money is a concern it might work out well. On the other hand, the freshman experience at several of the schools you mentioned would be valuable for her, especially, perhaps, in bringing her academic skills up to college standard where they might be lacking.</p>

4

<p>I'm no expert in this field, although I do have a nephew with a similar situation, so here's my 2 cents:
I don't think she will need the ACT retake. The most important thing for a transfer student is the grades earned at college. She seems to be on an excellent track for this, with your help and support.</p>

<p>Since she has an inconsistent post-HS record, it seems to me that the best action would be to stay at her CC and get an AA degree. She doesn't need another incomplete effort on her resume. With an AA, she could transfer to a 4 year school, or take a break and decide on a career - technical medical training might be the way to go. She should also consider the University of Kansas, which is affordable and has a wealth of career-oriented programs that a LAC would not. While this would be tough socially, I don't think transferring to a small LAC as a 20-plus sophomore is going to be easy. She may always feel like an outsider. A large university has adult undergrads, grad students, part-timers, etc., many of whom will have life experience similar to hers.</p>

<p>You are doing a wonderful thing for this young woman, and I hope everything works out for the best.</p>

5

<p>Hi Stef,</p>

<p>I think the most important thing for your neice to do is to present some stability so it does not seem as if she is jumping all over the place with a lack of direction (X-posted with midwesternmom). </p>

<p>I would place Americorps on the back burner for now (she can do it after graduation) and focus on continuing to do well at her community college spring semester 2009 , returning to school fall 2009 and applying for a transfer for Junior year. She can even consider doing a transfer application to Hampshire for spring 2010.</p>

<p>This way she is placing some sufficient distance from her high school experience and showing colleges that she has indeed turned a corner. She could consider some of the SAT optional schools (Juniata, Ursinus are good choices, perhaps consider adding Bard to the list) and she definitely should not count out the women's colleges especially Mount Holyoke and Smith.</p>

<p>I agree with thumper, that you should first see if the CC has any articulation agreements with other colleges where she could be eligible for an automatic transfer after she completes two years.</p>

<p>hope this helps</p>

<p>S</p>

6

<p>I agree with previous posts about stability. As great as Americorp is it will still be there when she graduates from college. It is more important at this point to show persistence and drive. </p>

<p>Have you looked into Warren Wilson (in NC). Also, there is a school in WV whose name I cannot pullout that is absolutely free. Both serve a more non-traditional student. I wonder how comfortable she would be at some of the more traditional LACs you mentioned.</p>

<p>The connection between CC and a 4 year college is an excellent idea. There are several colleges in my area that have these articulation agreements (thanks for teaching me that word Sybbie!)</p>

7

<p>My son at college in Colorado. It is a private school. However, we have close friends whose kids went to University of Colorado, and the tuition is a bargain for instaters. In my opinion, with the way things are these days, the best she will be able to do cost wise is likely to be in state tuition. My son whose stats where very good test wise and good grades wise and a traditional student still got his best deals in state with state schools here in NY. </p>

<p>In my experience, the private schools that offer the most money pay are the most selective. They pay specifically for what they want. In our case, it was a traditional male, very well prepared, with high test scores. When you start getting into non traditional students who have not so great numbers, it starts getting dicey in terms of getting school money. </p>

<p>Now, if she truly can get a 4.0 from a heavy duty academic cc program, things may open up privately. But that is a tough goal. As many of the other posters say, stability is important. For now getting those grades and courses is a big enough goal.</p>

8

<p>Berea College is the college that Triguena is probably thinking of. It has excellent arts and might well be of interest. Berea</a> College - About Berea College</p>

9

<p>Forgot to add Bryn Mawr College McBride Scholars program. It is for women of non-traditional college age. Don't know how much money there is, though.</p>

10

<p>University of Colorado (at least Boulder) is no bargain in-state -- like most flagship schools these days, the COA is well over $20,000/year if you factor in housing. It's huge, and since it IS a public school, FA is very, very limited. I think a small private will be a much better fit for OP's niece, financially and socially.</p>

11

<p>Evergreen State College is a state school, and if your niece gets her WA residency, she is going to pay in-sate tuition. Additionally, there are many scholarship options:</p>

<p>Tuition</a> Award Opportunities for Evergreen Students at Evergreen</p>

<p>They seem to have a special tuition award for Americorps service. Evergreen tends to attract a few non-traditional students.</p>

12

<p>I'm in Olympia, home of Evergreen College. She should visit, if possible. Cool school -- I've spoken with many graduates, young and old, who just loved it. Not everyone likes the buildings on campus -- they are grey concrete and it can come across as a bit cold. On the plus side, there are LOTS of non traditional students here. It can be a fun and exciting place if it is a good fit.
Good luck!</p>

13

<p>There are a lot of older nontraditional students at Prescott College in AZ. Every new student goes on a month long backpacking trip for orientation. I don't know about their financial aid.</p>

14

<p>A small private would be even more expensive and few can come up with a financial aid package that is competitive. My son who had good test stats did not get enough merit aid at any private that made it competitive with a full pay instate. A woman we know who has a son who is a good student with decent test scores went through the same exercise only to get private aid/merit awards that again did not come close to closing the gap between in state and out of state costs. The problem is that with private schools costing $50K+, even a $20K award is not going to bring the cost to an affordable level. Few schools give financial aid grants for that amount. To take out lots of loans makes no sense for this student who is not going to get family help repaying them</p>

<p>With a $20K in state cost, a student could get the Pell for about $4500, and stafford loans to come up with about half the cost. She would hopefully get a little bit of aid from the school. Even $5k in grants would be helpful. THat would leave about $5K from savings and work. Maybe additional loans. If she goes to a local state school and commutes, that would reduce costs even more. that is what most of the kids here do when money is tight.</p>

15

<p>I think all of the women's colleges have programs for non-trad students (I know that Smith has one - Ada Comstock Scholars), but the criteria vary in terms of age and number of college credits.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

16

<p>In a situation like this, a wide net should be cast. If she has a choice of state residencies, she should choose the state that offers her the best options for college. She should also look at some private schools that may offer her some good aid. It's often a crapshoot where she could get the best package. </p>

<p>I know folks whose kids did as well or better with private schools, but the kids were highly sought by the schools so they did get generous financial/merit aid. As a rule, for those kids who were "average", the best deals tended to be from the in state schools, especially if the kids could commute. There are exceptions; if a student can find a niche where he/she is accepted to a special program or shows something a school wants, there can be some options out there.</p>

17

<p>With working part-time and taking 17 credits, studying for the ACT is only going to take away time from studying for her classes. I would be absolutely sure that the colleges she is considering require the ACT. I would also recommend she consider taking one less class for this coming semester. She would still be full-time and will be better able to give each class her full attention. </p>

<p>I'm not seeing the up-side of her taking yet another break in her education for the 2009-2010 school year. </p>

<p>It seems her best shot at getting her BA is to stay in cc until she transfer to a four year school, whenever that may be.</p>

<p>I second looking into women's colleges and their programs for non-traditional students. The time to do that is now. </p>

<p>Best of luck to your niece and I think it's wonderful that you are helping her.</p>

18

<p>Hi
I agree that your niece should try and finish a couple years at the community college then try to transfer out to a 4 year college. I grew up with parents that had no value for higher education, my mom was proud of me graduating high school. I had a very dysfunctional family. The only time grades were a factor for them was when we failed a course and had to go to summer school. </p>

<p>I got a job as a nurses aid and got married then went to community schools to get an associates. I landed a better job and started working my way up the corporate ladder but was concerned that an associates degree was not going to support the climb. I went to school at night for 10 years to get a Bachelors degree. I completed that and continue to move up the corporate ladder. Your niece has started the educational climb far earlier than I did. You should be so proud of her that she has continued to pursue higher education. She will get there. Plenty of employers have tuition reimbursement if she decides to work full time and try to pursue a bachelors at night. Kudos to her and to you for being so concerned for her future.</p>

19

<p>Kudos to you, hsmomstef, for what you are doing for your niece. Two years of successful cc to show stability, long-term commitment to academics, and academic skill, followed by a transfer to a school that has a critical mass of non-traditional students sounds like a plan. BUT, I have no idea if the programs specifically targeting non-trad women at schools like Smith prefer their students to enter earlier rather than later in their academic careers. A phone call to an administrator in such a program to gather info about admissions requirements and preferences, and even about other colleges with appropriate programs, might be in order. Another good source of info on programs and funding for non-traditional female students might be a staffer with a lot of experience in an active, college-based women's center. Even though your niece might not be interested in attending these schools, U of M Ann Arbor and UCLA come to mind in terms of women's centers that might well have helpful staff with the kind of comprehensive info you need.</p>

20

<p>You are a real role model to many people who have kids in our extended families who are not getting the support they deserve from their bio parents. Congrats and cyber hugs for a job well done.</p>

<p>Agree 100% with deferring Americorps right now- a great place for her down the road, but sounds like she needs some traditional academic success right now if she's to transition to a four year U successfully.</p>

<p>I would think hard about places like Hampshire. They are always at the top of the list for people like your D, but they are breeding grounds for kids who end up there because they lack direction or have an untraditional profile. They are not great for getting kids through with a marketable degree in a tolerable time-frame, and given the lack of family financial support, I think your N would be better served by a school which wants to see their kids working and being successful tout suite.</p>

<p>Northeastern? great co-op program which helps off-sets the costs of living in Boston, not a cheap place for sure. Agree with Smith and Mt Holyoke, especially if she's shown some strength as a writer and can frame her experiences in a compelling way (i.e., not "my parents ^&<em>% and my life %^&</em> so I want to go to your college and you should pay me to do so"). Quinnipiac or College of New Rochelle if she has some well defined career goals? </p>

<p>What a great example of paying it forward you are... I am inspired.</p>