<p>My D is now a freshmen in Engineering. The school do not expect incoming freshmen to have Calc already in HS as Calc1 & 2 are on the standard schedule for graduating in 4 years. Nevertheless, many students do have AP Calc AB/BC credits from HS. So having Calculus in HS may be advantageous but not essential.
By the way, it is consider just one step faster than the basic/standard math track to have Calculus in senior at my school district. It is just an accelerated track without testing out any class. Around half of the students took Calc AB or BC by senior. There are many students are taking Calculus even in junior or earlier that they must have tested out some classes or taken summer classes. I do see some disadvantages from those students got pushed too hard. Some students may reach the level for learning Calculus in junior but not quite enough to score well in the AP test. As a result, they may end up retaking Calc 1 in college. My D has a classmate always 1 year ahead of my D in Math but now taking Calc 1 in college freshmen while my D is taking Calc 3.</p>
<p>Different schools are going to be different in this respect. Our school does accelerate a lot in middle school math. Our high school does not even offer an honors level algebra 1 course. It is assumed that all honor students will complete algebra 1 in middle school. So I think you need to look at the local expectations. In our school, the kids taking algebra 1 in 9th grade are not college-bound. Many of them aren’t even high school diploma-bound.</p>
<p>At our school there are honors math courses for those who do not choose to accelerate in math in middle school. That is what my kid did.</p>
<p>MIT has large beginning calculus classes. Obviously a demand. </p>
<p>Well our school would have told thumper’s kid was that in their experience kids who were in the top third of 7th grade math did fine with Algebra in 8th grade, and most went on to do fine with AB or BC Calculus or AP Stats as seniors. (They used to only have about 15% of the class do algebra in 8th grade). I see no reason to close those doors in 7th grade if your kid seems to be reasonably good at math. If you have a kid who is less than comfortable with math, by all means delay algebra to 9th grade, but in my experience even my non-mathy kid did fine in math on a more accelerated track.</p>
<p>At any rate it all worked out fine for thumper’s D.</p>
<p>In my school district, only students getting good grades in 7th grade Math can take Algebra I in 8th grade. Of course, only those do well in Algebra I (I think getting A or B) can move up to geometry or geometry AC in 9th grade. Some student would take a summer course before high school and test out geometry, but still, most applied got denied. So it is a rather rare case to reach Calculus in junior or earlier. At least half of the class would not reach Calculus level at all in high school.</p>
<p>It’s crazy that I have two sons so vastly different in math. My oldest started calculus in 7th grade, but took it “officially” in 8th. (He’s a math major at MIT who finished his math requirements two years early; math has always been his thing)</p>
<p>My current HS senior is taking precalculus this fall at the local community college. He seems to be doing ok, so we may go ahead and have him take calc I in the spring if he does well enough. Why? Well, even if he has to repeat it in college, I think having the exposure for him would be a good thing if he’s at all contemplating engineering in college, which he is. Since he has a math disability, the exposure and then retaking it would probably be a win-win situation. </p>
<p>This is his third attempt at precalc, having dropped it in the spring and again in the summer. He was so afraid, but he seems to be adjusting pretty well and is probably one of the better students in the class. He even decided not to use his accommodations for the first test.</p>
<p>Different kids-different paths.</p>
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<p>That seems odd, given that the accelerated 8th graders are generally stronger students in math and should therefore be easier to teach at the desired level (or even at what would be considered an honors level) compared to normal level 9th graders.</p>
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<p>However, students taking MIT’s 18.01 (the lowest level math course at MIT) need to be prepared for a fast pace, since it covers what is normally two semesters of calculus (calculus 1 and 2 at most colleges, or high school calculus BC including AB) in one semester.</p>
<p><a href=“IAP/Spring 2024 Course 18: Mathematics”>http://student.mit.edu/catalog/m18a.html</a>
<a href=“First Year Subjects”>http://math.mit.edu/academics/undergrad/first/index.php</a></p>
<p>I think a lot of kids may also be repeating calculus, because they didn’t score as well as they’d like or because they are premed trying to get an easy A or if their high school calculus class was not AP level. I recall seeing on a thread here months ago mention of a kid at one of the well-known LACs (perhaps Swarthmore) who was the only student in their class of 20 who had not previously taken calculus in high school. I don’t mean to imply it’s necessary to finish calculus in high school. But a kid who walks in to a college calculus class may find themselves at a disadvantage or just have to work a lot harder than others if many of the other students are repeating the course.</p>
<p>In 2003, 282,814 kids took the AB exam and 104,483 kids took the BC exam. I assume that doesn’t include the kids who took a non-AP level calculus class and it doesn’t include some of the kids who took calculus at a college. So I think it’s safe to assume that many of the applicants to STEM programs and top colleges will have taken calculus.</p>
<p>If a kid is ready to accelerate, I wouldn’t hold them back any more than I’d push ahead a kid who didn’t easily master pre-algebra.</p>
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<p>This is why I want my daughter to have some calculus in high school. I’d rather not have her introduced to calculus in a class full of kids who are repeating it. </p>
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<p>Perhaps this thread?
<a href=“No Calc 101 for you! - Parents Forum - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1556885-no-calc-101-for-you-p1.html</a></p>
<p>It describes a frosh at an unnamed LAC (in CTCL and on the quarter system) who was kicked out of a calculus 1 course because “our Calc 101 for students w/calculus+ in HS” even though its listed prerequisite was “4 yrs HS math, w/precalculus”. A possible ulterior motive was that the course was over-enrolled and they needed to find some way of reducing enrollment (since a LAC may be trying to keep the class size down and would not just add TAs (which it probably does not have anyway) to accommodate more students like at a research university).</p>
<p>My two kids had two different experiences with this as well. Oldest took regular 8th grade math, Algebra 1 in 9th, I think geometry in 10th, honors Algebra 2 in 11th and AP Stats in 12th. At a parent-teacher conference in 11th grade, her Al 2 teacher told me she was at a disadvantage because although she was doing “OK” in the honors section, she was missing a whole chunk of some basic algebra skills because the HS version of Al 1 is not as comprehensive as the 8th grade version! I guess the thought is that the 8th graders who take Al 1 are stronger students, but it really puts the late bloomer, like my oldest, at a disadvantage. So, when my youngest was recommended for Algebra in 8th grade, we put her in it. She wound up doing Geometry in 9th, Al 2 in 10th, AP Stats in 11th, and pre-cal (honestly can’t remember if it was honors or not) in 12th. It never would have occurred to me to ask about any differences between the 8th and 9th grade algebra curricula–not only is it the same district, but we have one head of the math department that covers both the MS and HS. </p>
<p>Even though many of our middle school kids are being pushed too fast, they still, as a group, blow away the 9th graders taking algebra1 on the tests. I’m not surprised that a 9th grade algebra 1 class would not be as rigorous. Teachers have to work with the students they have.</p>
<p>Algebra is normally a HS freshman year subject. Algebra in 8th grade is acceleration. I was involved in gifted education in our district as a parent and so learned about how things are done for a long time after my gifted son’s days. The district at one time had a lot more kids taking 8th grade algebra but discovered many kids needed to repeat it as HS freshmen instead of moving forward so they became more strict about who was accelerated. Kids benefit most from thoroughly learning the material. </p>
<p>UW-Madison recommends that many students who took AP calculus (and presumably passed it, ie got at least a 3 on the AP exam) start with its first semester regular calculus course (Honors sequence is another discussion) as it is more rigorous (covers more material) and students may struggle with second semester calc after only HS AP calculus. </p>
<p>Do not worry about being ahead/behind. Concern yourself with your child being properly placed to learn the material. Math is sequential, so much relies on a firm foundation of past classes. Later success in college math courses requires having learned the basics in HS classes, not taking classes sooner than required.</p>
<p>UW Madison’s math placement guidelines are here:
<a href=“https://www.math.wisc.edu/math-placement-tech-algorithm-uw-madison”>https://www.math.wisc.edu/math-placement-tech-algorithm-uw-madison</a>
Note that a 4 or higher on the AP test is needed for placement into higher level math courses. UW Madison also has its own placement tests. More here:
<a href=“Enrollment, Scheduling & Placement Help – Department of Mathematics – UW–Madison”>http://www.math.wisc.edu/placement/</a></p>
<p>The Math placement exam at UMich is pretty much a joke. It is at around the same level as SAT1 or SAT2 Math2. It would not place anyone higher than Calc 1 by that test. There is one girl who finished at least Calc2 (perhaps even Calc3 but I forgot) with A in a community college by dual enrollment in California. However, the credits are not accepted by UMich and she has to start from Calc 1 again.
If you do well in AP exam, then you can be placed at a higher level Math. Interestingly, students at LSA would not get the full AP credit from Calculus unless they take the next level Calculus and scored C or above. While CoE students would get the full credit from AP and higher level Calculus is required anyway.</p>
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<p>Seems odd. But it does seem that Michigan is stingy with subject credit for courses taken at other colleges (including both community colleges and four year schools), according to <a href=“UM Transfer Credit Equivalencies”>http://www.ugadmiss.umich.edu/TCE/Public/CT_TCESearch.aspx</a> .</p>
<p>@ucbalumnus UMich has a searchable database. One has to go through it by state and school to see if the credit of certain class can be transferred or not. That is not surprising as not all AP even with score 5 can claim credit either. The counselor at the CC would know which of their classes would have transferable credit to the popular schools their students would transfer to. Never expect any credit earned at CC can be transferred.</p>
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<p>Students at California CCs can look up the transferability to UCs and CSUs at <a href=“http://www.assist.org”>http://www.assist.org</a> . The UCs and CSUs generally seem to be more accepting of transfer subject credit than Michigan is. According to the Michigan transfer database, Michigan is quite stingy even for courses taken at four year schools.</p>