No Internal-Motivation Brother. Thoughts? Advice?

Parents Forum
1

<p>Can't remember what was the last time I asked for advice since all of you have given some over the months.... Now I need a bit more digging.</p>

<p>I just came home from Thanksgiving and the first thing my mom told me to do was to give my brother a "pep talk." She lamented how he was failing school, they want to throw him out of Honors math, etc. I just sat there in shock. Course, college students often have no idea what's going on at home, trouble-wise. I'm glad I didn't hear until now. She's very worried about him not getting into good schools. I told her it's okay, he can always transfer up later. It's not the end of the world if he winds up at our CC- the stereotypical atmosphere of CC as "slackers" isn't necessarily true. She disagreed, just simply doesn't want him there.</p>

<p>He's only a sophomore right now with a 2.5 GPA, his only honors class being math. He dreams of Princeton, NYU, but really, he has no idea. Displaced, disorientated are the words to describe his attitude. He wants to be "useful" somehow like business or law. I told him not to worry all about that since that's the point of distribution requirements at school- to help him figure out a major. He has no goals just because he doesn't know what he wants to do. He's totally opposite of him- he doesn't have the natural, internal drive. But he tries hard. The only thing fabulous about him that the colleges will see is his SAT scores- he's always done outstanding job on standardized tests.</p>

<p>It does feel like time is starting to run out on us and him because junior year is coming up and he's not going to be able to handle all the stress very well.</p>

<p>I don't know what else to say, my pep talks with him only works on the short run. It's like giving someone mini-zaps but he needs constant zapping until we get him where he should be- on the road to success. </p>

<p>We used to give him incentives like an iPod if he earned such and such for this time and time but he couldn't reach those goals. He's tried different study habits but hasn't found the right ones yet. </p>

<p>I think my dad's reaching to the point of giving up and he's just tired of talking (more like yelling at) to him. My mom's still holding up, trying herself. Now they're both looking to me to take over the parenting job in terms of schoolwork. Only because he looks up to me- can't believe I got into Colgate and Smith.</p>

<p>He's heard all what it takes- told him that he needed an A- average to get into NYU, get more involved than his hockey, etc. But is he there yet? No way. He just simply lacks the burst of flame to get him started.</p>

<p>I told my mom that he might be just normal- boys just take longer than girls to mature so he probably won't hit it up for another year or so.</p>

<p>Any parent out there with a similar son- lost, no natural drive, and unfocused on goals? What did you do?</p>

<p>Much help appreciated :)</p>

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<p>I can tell you nagging and bribes will not work. If there have been recent changes, always consider the possibility that drugs are involved.</p>

3

<p>I think you need to be his sister, not his mom. Let him know that you're there for him anytime he wants to talk. You can take an active role by IMing or e-mailing him on regular basis, asking him how he's doing. You are already doing the right thing by being encouraging, rather than judgemental.</p>

4

<p>I agree with the other posters.
The only other suggestion I have is for you to suggest that your parents go with your brother to a licensed therapist who is experienced with adolescents with difficulties similar to your brother's.</p>

<p>If the problem drugs -- a distinct possibility -- that may come out in the therapy. Similarly, the therapy may uncover whether the problem is depression, parenting deficiencies or your brother's being the target of bullying. </p>

<p>You can't be the parent. You also can't save your brother. Just continue being the supportive, caring sister.</p>

5

<p>
[quote]
He has no goals just because he doesn't know what he wants to do. He's totally opposite of him- he doesn't have the natural, internal drive. But he tries hard. The only thing fabulous about him that the colleges will see is his SAT scores- he's always done outstanding job on standardized tests.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It's a bit early to expect him to have clear career goals. He is only a sophomore, after all.
If he tries hard, could you talk him through why he is not doing better in his classes? Why is there such a discrepancy between his standardized tests and his class performance? Lay off the line about having to go to community college if he does not pull himself up, and other similar arguments and focus on the concrete issues he is facing. It may be, as other posters suggest, that there is a health issue involved, or even drugs. Or his lack of motivation is due to having to do mindless homework. It's not uncommon for bright kids to undermine themselves by doing poorly on homework which they are not motivated to do and thus be unable to convince teachers that they should be given more challenging assignments. Whatever the case, let your brother know you are on his side and try to draw him out. And ask your parents to stop lecturing him, since it obviously is not working. Good luck!</p>

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<p>I'll add one more thought: Many younger siblings find it intimidating to compete with the parental attention given to older, highly successful siblings. In some cases, they may react by taking the opposite route to
"get attention" from the parents. This can be either conscious or unconscious. </p>

<p>What your brother may need most is the assurance from your parents (and you) that they know he is an individual, struggling with his own development and accomplishments. Any comparison - either implied or direct - to your accomplishments may just spur him to dig his heels in deeper. </p>

<p>So, tread lightly. It may be that you can help your brother more by not putting additional pressure on him, but instead by acknowleding how hard all all of what he's facing (grades, school pressures, parental pressures) are. I suspect he would be very relieved to hear from you that you didn't just breeze through to where you are today, that you also felt a lot of pressure and self-doubt at times, and that that is just part of the process of growing up.</p>

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<p>"I told my mom that he might be just normal- boys just take longer than girls to mature so he probably won't hit it up for another year or so."</p>

<p>You're very insightful. Generally, there seems to be a much slower coming-of-age process between the genders. I have a H.S. senior son and have been dismayed at the number of boys I've seen at his school with little-to-no drive, ambition, motivation, initiative...you name it... when it comes to their academics. At the same time, they may pull off high scores on their SAT/ACT's or show amazing commitment and discipline to the things that interest them like athletics, for example. They are no dummies, and most of these boys are really good kids, nothing serious going on like drugs. I'm sure it's been very frustrating for your parents to see their child not performing at the level of his potential, but he's going to have to come around on his own. If he ends up having to take a different path than you, like starting out at a cc, he'll figure out in a big hurry how to turn things around for himself if that's not where he wants to be. He may learn his lessons the hard way, but that doesn't mean he won't be a productive, successful, and happy adult in the end.</p>

8

<p>GoBlueAlumMom- that's pretty much what's going on right now.</p>

<p>No drugs- he's far too busy with his sports to get involved.</p>

<p>marite- that is exactly why we're trying to keep him in honors math. There has been several close calls of the teacher really wanting to pull him out. But my parents always overrode the decision because math's always been his strongest suit and they knew that he'd be even more bored with his regular math homework. Right now, homework is a mindless task to him. He just doesn't get it how a student be expected to study two hours at a time over a subject.</p>

<p>Thank you everyone who's responded so far!</p>

<p>I've also told him that before he could touch my laptop over the break, he has to do one thing for me- to fill out the Counselor-O-Matic on PR site (I know, it's a bit off). Which he just did. I just figured if he could see the list of possible schools that would take him at his current status, he'd wake up a bit. He even barely glanced at the reach school and printed off the match and safeties! Just a little zap for a while :) Maybe he just needs a picture of where he could be applying two years from now. Too early to tell.</p>

<p>Again, thanks for the reassurances!</p>

9

<p>We have a freshman in college. The younger siblings at home treasure their IM conversations with him. By making/continuing/emphasizing such contacts, if possible, you could IMO be a big help to him. Just by being a big sister, not necessarily by consciously trying to guide him or change his ways--though no doubt there will be opportunties for tactful efforts towards those ends as well.</p>

<p>As for colleges, he has plenty of time to think about specific colleges. I would resist, though, the temptation to steer him toward "reach" schools. IMO reaches are sometimes overemphasized here. His education will depend primarily on him, not on his college. There are many, many places where one can get a good college education.</p>

10

<p>My son was very similar to your brother when he was a sophomore in high school. It was his lowest point. What we did as parents:</p>

<p>1) Accepted the (unappealing to me) idea that HE was in control of his future by virtue of his grades, effort, test scores, etc... For my husband it was easier, but I especially had to come to terms with the possibilty that my extremely smart son might choose not to go to college at all. (He actually told us that at one point in the year). It was difficult, but I did accept it. I backed off on the pressure, encouraged his budding interests in rock music and politics, ignored the sullen looks, criticisms, bad grades, hours "misspent" on computer games, excuses, etc... I stopped offering "helpful" advice about time management, stopped hovering, nagging, etc...all things that had worked during some slacker periods in middle school. His dad started talking all the time not about academics but about "becoming a man of character" and making good choices about how he was going to live. </p>

<p>2) We told him that if he didn't go to college, he would need to move out and become self-supporting at 18, which would have been in late summer after senior year. This was not a threat, but a reality check. When he said, that would be no problem that he would find a job and move out at 18, I calmly told him what the minimum wage was in our area and how much rents were. When he said he would move to a low cost state, I told him that wages were relative. All of this was said in the calmest possible tone and with as much patience as I could muster, even though inside I was screaming "get a clue!!!!"</p>

<p>3) Took him on a couple of college visits in the early fall of 11th grade to give him a "picture" of what could be in his future. Saw a reach, match and safety school over two days and really talked up the safety, even though I could tell it wasn't a good fit for him (actually, at this point, going to this particular safety in a particularly unappealing area of our state was a bit of reverse psychology on my part...). I think this event did more than anything else to prompt a complete turn-around in his academic efforts. I talked without emotion about the pros and cons of each of the three schools, showed him the stats and what his chances were of getting in while on his current course. I made it clear through my attitude (empathetic) and words (sincere) that he had all the power and opportunity, not me, and that it was his future, not mine. I also made it very clear that his dad, grandparents and I would love him no matter what college he went to (or none at all). We just wanted him to use his gifts and talents and to be happy.</p>

<p>4) Complimented his very high test scores and pointed out that they were one part of the "package" that might get him into the school he favored. Grades and ECs were the other part, but we didn't pressure him. He always had liked strategy games and I think this appealed to that part of him. Getting into college became a strategy for him. He already had X (test scores), now he needed Y (grades) and Z (ECs). It also gave meaning to the day-to-day homework, which he had always hated. The homework grades turned into the quarter grades, turned into the semester grades, turned into the GPA, etc...</p>

<p>5) Supported his new ECs by driving him everywhere, volunteering to help, paying what we could, etc...</p>

<p>6) When the straight A's came in first semester of junior year, we resisted showing shock or too much enthusiasm. Just said a low key congratulations and that if he kept it up, his reach school might just become a match. Then we introduced the idea of lottery schools like H and Y as new reaches. </p>

<p>The end result is that he is now a happy freshman at that first reach university that we visited three years ago. By his senior year, it had indeed become a match school and he was actually waitlisted by H and Y. </p>

<p>As others have said, I don't recommend that you take the role of parent with your brother. But I do think that he is too old and too smart for "constant zapping" and that it simply isn't effective. Maybe he will get some internal motivation when his family accepts the idea that it's his life and choice. I think your parents have a duty to inform him of his possibilities in terms of colleges (do the trips, some research, etc...), to inform him of what it takes to get into a variety of colleges, to inform him of how today's outcomes (grades, tests) impact his future opportunities and choices, and then to tell him that they love him and wish him well. He might turn it around, or he might stumble in the dark for a while and, yes, go to a community college or straight to work at a fast food place. That's not the end of the world, and your parents need to come to terms with it. Whatever the result, I'm betting that when your brother realizes that his decisions and outcomes are really his own, he will develop internal motivation and a passion (or two or three), which is the absolute key to any success in life, academic or otherwise.</p>

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<p>Momof2inca:</p>

<p>That is such a wonderful strategy and such a great outcome! I hope that Ticklemepink's parents can follow on it.</p>

<p>Ticklemepink: I also think that regular contact through email and sharing your own doubts and uncertainties as a high-schooler might be extremely helpful to your brother. Remind him that you were not always the self-confident, successful college student you now are but had a few bumps of your own.</p>

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<p>I think that your parents should have your brother screened by a medical doctor and a therapist. Anything from depression to health problems to undiagnosed ADD/ADHD/LDs could be causing the problem. Often very bright students who have ADD/ADHD/LDs can do fine in el and middle school, but run into problems in high school when more independence and organizational skills are required.</p>

<p>I mention this as the mom of a S who is high scoring, high IQ, low grades, which started in h.s. After trying hard to figure out the cause (and getting him all kinds of help including with organizational skills), I finally found out that he's ADD -- tends to quietly space out when he gets bored, which is exactly what happens when he's doing homework that doesn't interest him.</p>

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<p>I was going to suggest something momof2 mentioned. My oldest son listened when I told him he needed to have a range of things to offer colleges (EC's, grades, scores, etc.) to get into his dream school and it worked out for him. The younger one has never listened to me about anything and I knew he wouldn't start now. </p>

<p>I scheduled college visits during vacation to 2 schools we thought he would like. One is a reach-reach school for everyone, the other is more of a reach/match school for him. Because he watched his older brother go through this 2 years ago he knew what would be required to have a chance at these schools, but I wanted him to hear it from the admissions directors, not me. I haven't seen a complete turn-around yet but things are improving. I think hearing from the colleges the same things I've been saying sunk in a little. You might see if a college visit to a school he might like is possible - it just might spark an interest in him.</p>

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<p>over30- That's pretty much what we're starting to think- random, easy college visits. For the past 24 hours since he got his resuts from PR, he hasn't stopped talking about asking to see BU (I'm just raising my eyebrows just because BU's so big!). He started asking questions, etc, etc. Maybe we'll swing by a few in the spring, especially I have friends in Boston who won't mind hanging out with us. Also, we're scheduled to visit NYC over Christmas break and if it works out for him to join my mother and me, I could take him around NYU (another school he's been talking about).</p>

<p>I think he's just tuned out to my parents but not yet to me or anyone else.</p>

<p>Thanks all, once again :) I feel so much better now. Even my parents are expressing laid-back interest in his conversations but haven't made any criticism. They said that his drive will just have to come from within but we just all have to be patient. They've accepted that fact.</p>