No International Relations at Grinnell?? Wait...

Colleges and Universities A-Z Grinnell College
1

<p>Hello all,</p>

<p>Back at the beginning of my college search, I was very selective with the schools I wanted to apply to. I know for sure that I want to major in International Relations with a minor/double major in Chinese.</p>

<p>The college course catalog that I found in my school's career center, listed International Relations as a possible major at grinnell. (I mean, it makes sense...they always touting how global they are and whatnot). The problem is that, now when I go to the college website, and threads on CC it looks like they no longer have IR as a possible major here. Kalamazoo and Grinnell are my top choices (Grinnell being higher), but I want to be a foreign service officer, and going anywhere without international relations isn't an option for me. </p>

<p>These inconsistencies are concerning, especially as it's pass the time to apply to other schools (I got into other ones...but don't really want to go there). There is also a link on the website that says international studies (on the side bar), but then on the other side of the page, it's not listed. I'm really worried, and getting very anxious. I know I could call the admissions office on Monday, but it's saturday and I'm worried <em>now</em>.</p>

<p>:((( This is definitely no bueno.</p>

2

<p>We don’t have an exact IR major sadly =/. Or if we do, I never saw a class for one or a department. If there would be one, it probably would be a concentration (doubtful) or someone in the past made it an Independent Study. We do offer other things for international-style degrees, mainly in the languages and Political Science department and do have a link to the EU Study Abroad programs if that helps? If anything, here, you could with enough courses make an International Relations Independent major out of language and Poli Sci/Policy Studies classes ^^. It sucks I know but Grinnell is at least good about knowing that it lacks having the wide assortment of majors at say a National University, but at least giving students the opportunity to picker a broad major and concentrate or letting them make their own.</p>

<p>Hope that helps?</p>

3

<p>Just because there isn’t a major named “international relations,” that doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty of opportunity to study it, whether through political science, or the interdisciplinary concentrations, such as: Global Development Studies, East Asian Studies (since you mentioned Chinese), Policy Studies, etc. You can also self-design a major. There is also the Center for International Studies, a Peace Studies program, and the Rosenfield Program in International Affairs, International Relations and Human Rights.</p>

<p>I think you will find plenty of resources and attention at Grinnell focused on helping you learn and engage in the study of international relations!</p>

4

<p>“…going anywhere without international relations isn’t an option for me.”</p>

<p>Well, if Grinnell is otherwise a good fit for you, it would be a mistake to pass it up simply because it doesn’t have a major specifically labeled as “International Relations”.</p>

<p>Grinnell does offer a major in Global Development Studies. It also offers a number of language and area studies concentrations. The peace studies program offers additional opportunities. Grinnell also offers an option to do an individual major. </p>

<p>There is nothing magical about an IR major. In fact, if you were to do a survey of the various international studies, international relations, global studies and other similar majors, minors, and certificates that colleges and universities offer, your head would be spinning in confusion. There is such a huge variety of such programs across schools with widely different structures, requirements, options and no standard program titles. There probably are some common features across such programs, which you could easily recreate through your choice of electives. </p>

<p>For some further thoughts on this matter, see my posts in these threads:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/other-college-majors/902677-political-science-vs-international-relations.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/other-college-majors/902677-political-science-vs-international-relations.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/749245-undergraduate-foreign-policy-schools.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/749245-undergraduate-foreign-policy-schools.html&lt;/a&gt;
Also see these links:
[How</a> to Pursue a Career with the United Nations or Other International Humanitarian Organizations](<a href=“http://www.coyotecommunications.com/stuff/workabroad.shtml]How”>How to Pursue a Career with the United Nations or Other International Humanitarian Organizations)
[Selection</a> Process - U.S. Department of State](<a href=“http://careers.state.gov/officer/selection-process]Selection”>http://careers.state.gov/officer/selection-process)</p>

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<p>Thanks for your prompt reply. It’s just that, in this day in age, it’s concerning when a college doesn’t have a simple IR major. Unfortunately, Poli Sci and IR are really different :/</p>

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<p>And don’t you think it’s strange that, with all those “International Programs” there isn’t an International Studies major? Like I said before, there are definitely options, but making my own major is kind of a hassle, especially with the already rigorous course at Grinnell. And what makes a “concentration” different than a major/minor? It all sounds very nebulous. Last time I checked, poli sci was heavy in how “America works” and how “America interacts with other places”. In IR I could move outside of that and see how “other places interact with other places”…</p>

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<p>“There is nothing magical about an IR major. In fact, if you were to do a survey of the various international studies, international relations, global studies and other similar majors, minors, and certificates that colleges and universities offer, your head would be spinning in confusion”</p>

<p>I understand there is no magic in it. However, most of the colleges I applied to seem to have a distinctly different curriculum for IR vs Poli Sci.</p>

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<p>Zapfino, I just read the posts you directed me to. Well, I’m not one of the “uninformed” about IR, so…</p>

9

<p>There is one student here who designed an independent International Relations major. So you could do that.
Alternatively what a lot of people interested in International Relations here do is majoring in Poli Sci or Economic and concentrating in Global Development Studies. There is definitely a way for you to study something International Relation-like at Grinnell, even though it might be a little bit more complicated than at other schools.</p>

10

<p>here’s the curriculum link to the poli sci dept at Grinnell. Sure looks to me like there are plenty of courses that examine it from the perspective of other countries…
[Political</a> Science - Catalog | Grinnell College](<a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/catalog/academic-program/courses/polisci]Political”>http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/catalog/academic-program/courses/polisci)</p>

<p>there are a number of other links you can go to on the college website (instead of relying on your guidance counselor’s information…) that will give you more specific information and perhaps allay your concern about the semantics of the major title… but since you are focused on your post-graduate options, you might be interested to read about this internship program focused on international affairs:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/rosenfield/internships[/url]”>http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/rosenfield/internships&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I thought zapfino’s comments on the other links were incredibly insightful. Note, too, that among LACs, Grinnell has one of the highest percentages of students from other countries on its campus.</p>

<p>I think that the “centers” and “programs” noted in posts above are designed to supplement regular course offerings and coordinate resources so that the school brings in outsiders to campus for speaking engagements, symposia, and short-term teaching engagements and to provide hands-on opportunities for students through internships, etc. They are not curriculum centers per se, as the actual academic departments would be.</p>

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<p>actually, this description of the International Studies Center confirms what I just said above.<br>
[About</a> the Center - International Studies | Grinnell College](<a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/cis/aboutthecenter]About”>http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/cis/aboutthecenter)
I think the college recognizes that “international relations” is something that incorporates learning across the disciplines; perhaps it is a conscious decision not to have a department that is so narrowly defined.</p>

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<p>“I think the college recognizes that “international relations” is something that incorporates learning across the disciplines; perhaps it is a conscious decision not to have a department that is so narrowly defined”</p>

<p>SDonCC, thank you, but I am fully aware of what is on the website, I mentioned it in my OP. My guidance counselor didn’t help me choose my colleges at all, thanks. A lot of my family work in higher academia, so it’s not that I’m uninformed I’m just concerned.</p>

<p>I also understand that Grinnell has a big international programs thing going on, and that they have international students. Unfortunately, I’m from california, and go to a school where almost everyone is from a different country, and that’s very different than having an IR major. IR is interdisciplinary, so I would say it is in no way “narrowly defined”.</p>

<p>I’m not focused on my post graduate options, I’m sorry if I mispoke, I just meant to mention that I’m planning on working for the state department when I’m older…I understand that foreign service officers come from all types of majors. I have done a VERY VERY thorough research of every college I have applied to. I have looked at almost every course offering in the majors I’m interested in, and I have spoken to most of the teachers in the Chinese departments, to make sure I’m able to further my Chinese and prepare myself for working in China as much as possible.</p>

<p>I’m simply saying that, the majors poli sci and IR wouldn’t have different names if they were the same thing. But I’m getting the sense that the answer here is simple “It’s IR if you make it IR”. I honestly love Grinnell, there are so many aspects of it that my other schools don’t.</p>

<p>But I don’t know if I want to go through the effort to carve out my own major like that. Poli Sci with a concentration in Global Development studies. Global Development isn’t even what I want to learn…I’m interested in it, but it’s not my focus. I guess, I have an idea about what I want my life to be, already.</p>

<p>I’m sorry if this post comes of curt. I’m just really disappointed in my top choice school, and I feel like I’m getting solutions I already know (or being spoken to like I don’t know what I’m after).</p>

<p>I guess it just comes down to whether I’m up to the challenge of making what I want for myself, or go to a school that already has what I want.</p>

14

<p>_Silence,</p>

<p>It’s encouraging that I’m not the only one who wanted the IR major. Do you know how complicated the process is? Was he/she able to do it with little resistance/easily? What did his academic advisors tell him? Is he happy with it?</p>

15

<p>i’m not trying to be argumentative here, but I’m really trying to figure out how an international relations major is different than what you can study at Grinnell. I looked at Kalamazoo’s website (the other college you’re interested in) and while they have a major in “international studies” it appears to be primarily courses taken in other disciplines. I also looked up Macalester, which is widely viewed to be an excellent school for international studies (or relations), and the “International Studies” major requirements call for students to take “a five course focus in any of over 20 disciplinary programs.” Then, for something completely different, I went to NYU’s international relations major and all the courses come from the Economics, Politics and Sociology departments! How do either of these majors differ from the education that Grinnell would provide? It seems to me they just “pre-bundle” the package for you!</p>

<p>I guess there’s some way you are defining international relations which doesn’t appear apparent to me, but when I look at the Grinnell course offerings in different disciplines (and I only looked at Poli Sci, Econ and Sociology) it seems to cover a wide array of studies that would be helpful for anyone who wanted to enter the foreign service! </p>

<p>It seems to me that if you do get accepted to Grinnell, you should call the school and ask to speak to a professor who can help you figure out if the school can provide the education you’re looking for.</p>

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<p>SDonCC,
<em>sigh</em> I get that IR is interdisciplinary…that’s what I <em>want</em>. I want my courses to come primarily from other departments. That’s the point. The difference that Poli Sci is usually not as interdisciplinary. There is a poli sci department at Grinnell, and most of the courses you have to take are from that department, making it not multi departmental. Do you see the difference? If I took poli sci, them most of my courses would come from the poli sci department. If I took IR, my courses would be all over the place because there can’t really be a department for IR. I don’t know any other way to explain it. Poli Sci and IR are different. Poli sci is usually concentrated in it’s own department, and IR is usually taken from all departments. </p>

<p>Now, Grinnell may say that most of it’s classes have a “global focus”, but poli sci is still poli sci, and not IR. Let’s look at the Kalamazoo courses for each major:
First, IR is listed under “interdisciplinary”, vs Poli Sci being under “social sciences”</p>

<p>Poli Sci Courses (for major):
POLS105Introduction to American Government
POLS106Introduction to Comparative Politics
POLS108Introduction to Political Theory: The Nature of Politics
POLS205The Politics of Revolution
POLS225Constitutional Law
POLS257Justice and Political Community in Antiquity
(not a complete list)</p>

<p>IR Courses (for major):
ANSO 105 Introduction to Cultural Anthropology
HIST 101 Introduction to Europe I: Medieval and Early Modern World or
HIST 102 Introduction to Europe II: From Modernity to Post-Modernity, 1648-present
IAST 290 Sophomore Seminar
IAST 490 Senior Seminar
POLS 106 Introduction to Comparative Politics or
POLS 107 Introduction to International Politics
POLS 375 International Political Economy</p>

<p>Now, notice that in the majority of the “core” courses you only see the POLS department code 3 times, while other core courses are coming from history, international and area studies and anthropology. Throughout the rest of the major, that interdisciplinary trend continues. With the Poli Sci major, however, you see a lot of POLS POLS POLS POLS, and not much else. Of course, I can take whatever I want outside of my major, but my point is that the majors clearly have different approaches and focuses. With political science being focused on…politics. IR, however, can be geared almost anyways you want, more towards history/political wise/anthropology etc.</p>

<p>I’m not sure any other way for me to demonstrate the differences.
Yes, I can enjoy all those wonderful “international programs” that they have at Grinnell, but at the end of the day, I still majored in Poli Sci, which has an almost unyielding political focus, from one department, versus majoring in IR, which has the political element but so, so much more.
Also, the course offerings Grinnell has are different the the courses required for your major. The requirements for what I will create in my IR degree will be vastly different than in the Poli sci degree.</p>

<p>So, I guess to answer my own question: No, as of now, Grinnell has only the building blocks…I’ll just have to build what I want myself, like _Silence said. People wouldn’t create their own majors if Grinnell had everything…</p>

<p>Thanks for trying to help me though. And being patient. I’m just trying to make sure my college is experience is at least close to everything I want it to be (I have to make up for the 4 terrible years of high school), so I need to know what I’ll have to do to make that dream a reality.</p>

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<p>Now I do understand, but I think that as I said, it’s all there at Grinnell, but yes, you would have to put some effort into designing a major, but a) the school is familiar with working with students on developing Independent Majors and b) this one’s been done before, so it shouldn’t be rocket science putting it together. No matter what anyone majors in, there’s still planning to do to figure out prerequisites and balancing a variety of academic interests. Grinnell is all about the “individually advised curriculum” and if your advisor isn’t familiar with how to put an independent major together, I’m sure he / she would be happy to direct you to the proper source. </p>

<p>I also think that you should talk to a professor to get a better feel for the poli sci program, because when I look at the website I see something different as to what is required for the major, because it gives a much broader range of required courses than what you’ve listed above. It says poli sci 101 and ONE each from these areas: american politics, comparative politics and international politics (with a variety of courses offered in each). It says that 8 credits can be taken outside the department to count towards the required 32. It also says: “Political science majors should take statistics and courses in related social studies—anthropology, economics, history, philosophy, and sociology. They are encouraged to undertake interdisciplinary study combining social studies with the humanities.” Here’s where I saw this: [Political</a> Science - Catalog | Grinnell College](<a href=“http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/catalog/academic-program/courses/polisci]Political”>http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/catalog/academic-program/courses/polisci)</p>

<p>Let’s just say, for argument’s sake, that you decide not to bother with an Independent Major and instead go with poli sci. Would you have to take some courses you might prefer not to? Absolutely. but that’s the same with any major, or indeed anyone who has to meet prerequisites for upper level courses. That’s just the nature of designing a college curriculum. </p>

<p>Anyway, I do understand your point, but I still think that you can get what you want at Grinnell. But, you shouldn’t take it from me or anyone on this website, but from the college itself! </p>

<p>btw, I went to a “much higher ranked” and “better known” LAC than Grinnell and my advisor was a sports coach, not a professor. Needless to say, I got no advice on how to plan my curriculum, just a sign-off on my courses and to this day I regret that I had no coherency in my major (I took all my courses for the English major chronologically backwards because I took what I was interested in first). I hear that the advising at this school still stinks. I am incredibly impressed with the advising system at Grinnell. It doesn’t mean that a student has to do whatever their advisor says or even meet with them that often if they don’t want, but the resources are there to use. </p>

<p>What I’m trying to say is that for any college, no matter the major, there is navigating and compromising in order to develop a four-year plan. My S will not be able to take everything he wants (unless he goes to school for more than four years!) and he will have to take some things he doesn’t want. I also know of someone at Carleton who didn’t want to take foreign language, but had to for a requirement, and guess what, he loved it and it changed his direction completely! One hears those kinds of stories all the time.</p>

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<p>Just to explain a little more about the advising system: first-year students are registered only for their tutorial when they arrive on campus. Before school starts, each student fills out a form with a variety of questions to help the advisor understand the student as a person and his /her educational goals and academic weaknesses. On that form, the students also list courses they are interested in taking their first year, and this is used as a starting point for discussion with the advisor during orientation.</p>

<p>The tutorial professor remains as advisor until a major is declared, then the advisor is someone from that department.</p>

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<p>I think there may actually be two students who are pursuing an independent major at Grinnell. I know for so of one. I don’t know her personally but she is generally very involved in Campus life. I am also not personally aware of how difficult it was for her to plan an independent major in International Relations but I know of other students. It takes a lot more work, to plan an independent major, as you need two, instead of one adviser (I’m guessing for IR, an economics and poli sci adviser could make sense). Planning the major of course takes time, especially if you want to incorporate off-campus study. After the planning state I feel the only annoying thing about it, would be getting the signatures for course registration. From what I’ve gathered though, people who have pursued independent majors seem to be really satisfied with having done so because it gave them the opportunity to pursue their interests.
If you feel Grinnell is otherwise a great fit for you, I think designing your own independent major might be an option for you and generally many, sadly not all, professors will help you a great deal with pursuing your own interests.</p>

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<p>The first year turotial was one of the reasons why I loved Grinnell. Most LAC’s have them, but the topics of their classes is what caught my eye (the first time I went out there). Lol, and about the “higher ranked”…that’s why I don’t pay any mind to rankjing or prestige. I got accepted into an Ivy, but i newver had any desire to go. Prestige is SO overrated. just like rankings…but that’s for another topic (anyways, i agree with you). I also think that, my intial panic has faded, and if I get accepted into Grinnell this weekend, there is a 99% chance that I will go. Everything else about the school I love. I think it will be worth the extra hassle of making my own major, so that I can be at a school whose envirnment totally jives with my worldview. :slight_smile: Thanks for processing with me.
~Rose</p>