<p>How can i possibly "catch up" to those people? And does being a President of a club mean that much, honestly?</p>
<p>Unfortunately being a President of a club means a lot to them. But even to them it does not mean everything or they would have a computer program instead of Admissions Depts looking for keywords like "President" or "Valedictorian" or 2400 SAT in applications and filtering out the rest.</p>
<p>They are looking at the entire picture and that's where your hope is. You simply have to sell yourself to them. No one can give you a specific recipe on how to convince them to choose you, what specifically to write in your essays and who to ask for recommendations. You're the only one who knows your life and can make these decisions and there are still no guarantees. But there will be kids like you in HYPSM class of 2013 with good academics but without hooks, leadership positions or athletics so it's no doubt possible and doable even if extremely extremely hard.</p>
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<p>Blueducky</p>
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<p>Oh, I see what you mean. First of all, I just want to say that you should apply if you want to. It's your future. Especially with everything online these days, it's easier than ever and contributed to why the Ivies all had record lows this past year (not only because of larger graduating class, Common App convenience had to do with it also).</p>
<p>You definitely have a chance of getting in. Everyone and anyone does.</p>
<p>However, if you want me to assure you that you have GOOD chances of getting in, I won't do that. </p>
<p>Just because admissions can be unpredictable sometimes doesn't mean it's totally unpredictable. I think the attitude you need to approach the Ivies with, if you're you or me, is that it's always a long shot. There are never any guarantees, other than the fact that your application will be at least read over.</p>
<p>There might be aspects of your academic record or personal life that I don't know about that could have an affect upon admissions. (I sure have tons of stuff I'm going to want my counselors/teachers to note in their reccs, and things I will note in my essays that cannot be communicated elsewhere in the application!) But I don't know those things about you, and so I can only give you my opinion of what I DO know.</p>
<p>To the second part of your question: I'm Copy Editor and spreads editor of my school's Annual (don't mean to brag but it's pretty awesome lol! I think I will bring it to my interviews); Co-Founder, Co-Pres of two VERY active international-affairs-related clubs (pretty sure I wrote this somewhere else, too...); strong background in classical piano; volunteer with a community service organization as web content and newsletter writer (closest thing I have to employment, ugh); do other volunteer work for teachers and the IB dept., some other clubs; did Sci Olympiad for only one year but I won an award; tons of awards in writing and international affairs; summer training for those clubs I started; independent reading and writing take up a huge chunk of my time. I also do some computer graphics and other art on the side that I think rounds out my ECs a little bit. And then there are some fragmenty-stuff, like my Extended Essay.</p>
<p>If I'm in any position to give you any advice, I'd say go for it and suggest that you don't overlook any ECs you've done. Not when you're shooting for the Ivies., you know; U. of Colorado is another story. Try to find a theme if you can. If you're really into sports, exploit that and emphasize it.</p>
<p>I'm not so sure you need the things mentioned in the title to be admitted to HYPSM or Ivy league schools. First off, I think leadership is vastly overblown in the college admissions process. I think the emphasis admissions officers put on "demonstrated leadership" is too much and the students put even more emphasis than the admissions officers do on it. Since you say you play sports that sufficient. Basically, unless you can play sports on a varsity D-1 level (aka recruitable), it will be treated as just another time consuming extracurricular activity. I'm not so sure about national awards, but as long as you're very good at something, you won't have too much of a problem. The real issue is that there are too many people who see this process as a checklist. The admissions officers are looking for the total picture, not a medley of distinctions.</p>
<p>Don't see HYPSM as a homogeneous group of colleges. They are quite different from one another and being admitted to one is no assurance of being admitted to another. With yields at all of them upwards of 70% you can easily conclude that multiple HYPSM admits are actually a small minority. </p>
<p>MIT is probably the one most unlike the others and possibly where you have a stronger chance because of your profile as a high performing female immigrant. I interview applicants for MIT and have a rising sophomore daughter there now, so I have a good feel for what they look for. </p>
<p>MIT does no care about leadership at all, they care about creativity. They expect students to bring something to the Institute beyond their academic ability. The applicant pool, particularly the female pool, is highly self-selecting. Few apply who don't have the test scores and transcript in math/science to qualify. Granted many admits, male and female, have won national science or math awards, but many have not. Only around 25% are so-called academic superstars with national awards. So you would not be disqualified on that basis. </p>
<p>MIT actually limits the number of ECs you can list on their application to 5, which is to your advantage. They are not impressed by a list of activities. They would rather see you involved in one thing and do it well. Most admits stand out for a variety of reasons: they may be artists, musicans, athletes, dancers, have created some device, or may be passionate about something. I am sure there is something you do on your free time that you really enjoy. Make sure you expand on that in your application. </p>
<p>MIT also likes first generation college students or those that have overcome severe hardship. If your immigrant background helps in that regard that is definite plus. Being Asian is not a negative: about 25% of MIT students are Asian, much less than Stanford or Cal. </p>
<p>Finally, if engineering is not your thing, don't worry. Only 50% of students major in engineering: the other half majors in the sciences, economics, business or even philosophy or political science all top ranked departments nationally. There are tons of premeds and they do very well at getting in to top med schools.</p>
<p>does your quote "things mentioned in the title" include national awards as well? cuz that wasn't in the title, but to me, it is kind of in the same category</p>
<p>I think it really depends on your school. Kids from my school have gotten into schools like MIT, Penn, and Cornell in the past couple of years without many ECs and practically no leadership positions at all. But you see kids who seem to have much better resumes on this site get summarily rejected all the time. So at first I was just like what!? But the way you're evaluated is definitely taken in context of the rigor of your school, so if you've seen kids with similar credentials as yours from your high school routinely receive acceptances to the colleges you're looking at you shouldn't be TOO worried. </p>
<p>If that's not the case, then conventional CC wisdom would say that you're competitive, but not extremely so. "Nerdy, bookish, and school-oriented" would not be looked upon favorably either. "Academically brilliant and driven" might be a better-sounding image, and that's what they're looking for more than the pedantic student of requisite diligence but little ingenuity (not saying you are, but don't try to portray yourself as -just- a nerdy hard worker; they want students that are interesting). </p>
<p>Good luck though! I don't have much leadership myself, no athletics, and am definitely not a legacy, if it makes you feel better. I actually think if you've been really dedicated to your varsity athletics you could stand a good chance with good stats. Don't worry so much about Science Olympiad or Science Bowl or something... they're really not more impressive than if you've sunken a lot of time and devotion to your sports and whatever ECs you've done.</p>
<p>It's definitely true that there are a few general categories admits can be put into. The ones with stellar grades and scores (as in extra APs/IBs/SAT IIs), the ones that are "well rounded" (good grades, good scores, good recs, sports/art) and the ones with better leadership/ECs than grades (steady B-s in a few subjects). </p>
<p>I would recommend reading some books that have been written by the Harvard Crimson staff where they've profiled a range of students at Harvard and how they got in if you are really really curious (I know I was!)</p>
<p>Be quirky!</p>
<p>You need to understand that starting a club is really not that big a deal. Colleges realize that...I mean I am the head of the debate club and a staff writer for my newspaper, which on the CC forums is equivalent to having abysmal ECs. Yet at my competitive boarding school, my college counselor thinks that I am qualified (does not mean accepted) to apply to HYPS. So go for it, people over-analyze these things.</p>
<p>lol i said nerdy cuz i think it's a funny way to describe someone, maybe i just have a weird sense of humor.</p>
<p>It is kind of annoying though when people (esp this one guy at my school) say stuff to me, like "At least you'll get into Berkeley", when they know i'm super ambitious and the biggest perfectionist ever. He then went on to say how i don't have any EC's, etc. I don't know. It's not like i share all my life details with him, but yea, to him i'll always just be good enough for Berkeley.</p>
<p>And it's not that i care so much as to what people say, i mean if i did, i wouldn't get to where i am now. I just find it extremely annoying when people patronize you like that and judging you when they know as much/or less about the college application process than you do.</p>
<p>Mmm, I have a similar problem: good stats but nothing outstanding in terms of ECs (and "nothing outstanding" is being very generous, lol.) Sometimes I think it unfair that people who start name-only clubs just to look good on paper by saying "LOOK I'M A LEADER" apparently stand a higher chance of admission to top schools than people who spend their time just doing the things they enjoy, but sometimes I think, "wait -- doesn't doing things just to get into college demonstrate the ambitious attitude that colleges want? Do they not deserve the spots, and am I just unmotivated and flattering myself to think that whatever traits I do possess qualify me for these schools?" </p>
<p>And sometimes, in moments of clarity, I rise above it all and say, "what the hell." Speculating isn't gonna help. All I can do is portray myself as accurately as possible in my applications and hope that admissions officers like what they see. They're going to look at us holistically, you know? As people. Like denniso said, they don't just set up a computer program to look for the word "president" or "national award." We're people, and our strengths, weaknesses, and traits will (hopefully) come across in our applications.</p>
<p>Poseur, you asked a very good question about the ambition thing. I guess some people suffer because they are too ambitious and too obsessed with the result that they don't enjoy the ride too much and end up doing things to impress other people. College admission officers will definitely sense that, they've been reading applications for years! </p>
<p>Even if they are successful by high school standards, people like that will most likely not go as far as those with both passion and talent in something, even if that thing is shoe-cleaning. </p>
<p>I really like what you said in the last couple of sentences and like you, hope that it is true. :)</p>
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Sometimes I think it unfair that people who start name-only clubs just to look good on paper by saying "LOOK I'M A LEADER" apparently stand a higher chance of admission to top schools than people who spend their time just doing the things they enjoy
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<p>I've heard the opposite... passion & doing things you enjoy looks much better than doing things just to look good. </p>
<p>This one girl I know started a sort of community-service organization around end of Junior year and EVERYONE knew it was just for college. She actually got a lot of recognition for it and I think it actually did manage some stuff, but she didn't get in many places and her stats/grades/ECs certainly weren't lackluster. Not that many of the other people I know who've gotten into difficult schools necessarily demonstrated a lot of passion, but that's just an example that starting clubs to look good on paper doesn't really serve you all that well.</p>
<p>question, do you not have ecs at all or are you just not a leader in them? While not quite as good as being a captain or president, if you've been in several ecs for 3 or 4 years of highschool that is still alright even if you aren't a leader. If not, then that will hurt you.</p>
<p>tutoring little kids for 4 years,
track and tennis (1 yr var) both 2 years, maybe 3 when i apply
red cross, csf both 2 years (not too outstanding involvement to be honest), 3 when i apply
random summer volunteer activities: Asian American Donor Program (i actually enjoyed this!), watching little kids, volunteer at library</p>
<p>if you haven't really noticed, i like helping people, especially little kids. I love how their faces light up with excitement over a small success, and i feel so bad for those who are not as motivated, because i see potential in everyone. </p>
<p>this summer i have an internship though, doing research on brain cells! it is SOOOOO fulfilling you have no idea</p>
<p>Cellardweller makes some good points about MIT specifically, and I want to agree with her. A lot of my advice will probably be coloured with my personal experiences, and will serve you best at a school with a similar outlook to MIT because that’s where I wanted to go, that’s where I was accepted, and ultimately that’s where I fit in the most. So maybe me advocating the importance of creativity over leadership should be taken with a grain of salt, especially if you’re applying to HYP and not MIT...</p>
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But the way you're evaluated is definitely taken in context of the rigor of your school, so if you've seen kids with similar credentials as yours from your high school routinely receive acceptances to the colleges you're looking at you shouldn't be TOO worried.
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So, so, so true. Even though I got into some top schools, most of the people posting chance threads and then getting rejected from their top choices are SO intimidating to me, and I can’t help but think that I didn’t have the level of awards or leadership positions that they did. Admissions really do look at your background and opportunities while evaluating you. And even if you don’t know anyone from your school who’s gotten into the schools you’re looking at, it doesn’t mean you can’t be the first (just remember, it means you should show something even more special than they did – just because colleges take context into account doesn’t mean you should use is as an excuse to not be as amazing as you can be).</p>
<p>
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Sometimes I think it unfair that people who start name-only clubs just to look good on paper by saying "LOOK I'M A LEADER" apparently stand a higher chance of admission to top schools than people who spend their time just doing the things they enjoy.
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The thing is, in my opinion anyways, colleges learn more about your ECs and stuff from essays or interviews or recommendation letters than they do from that little spot in the application where you write “x activity for y hours over z years”. Because of this, people who are really doing whatever they love will fair much better. You’ll be able to write an honest and passionate essay about it, or talk for hours about it to the interviewer, or your teacher will write how amazing it was that you got involved with whatever (even if you didn’t hold a leadership position, this passion can still shine through). Whereas someone who held a superficial leadership position just to impress colleges will be able to fill out the little form, but they won’t want to write about it for an essay, and if they do it won’t be as good, they won’t shine while explaining to an interviewer, and teachers won’t even think of including it in their recommendations. </p>
<p>So don’t worry about those fake people, it’ll catch up to them. Plus, they just spent four years of their life trying to impress some random admissions officer, and you spent four years enjoying high school and doing what you love – who got the better deal there?</p>
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If you haven't really noticed, I like helping people, especially little kids. I love how their faces light up with excitement over a small success, and I feel so bad for those who are not as motivated, because I see potential in everyone.
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Well there you go!!! Let that shine through in your application, and it’ll shine so much stronger than some kid going “I was president of my school’s debate team... and took on leadership... and was responsible... and I WAS THE PRESIDENT!” Expand on those two sentences there, because that’s showing real leadership and responsibility, real passion, and a real commitment to make a difference. And that can’t be faked nearly as easily as a simple leadership position can be, and colleges know that.</p>
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This summer I have an internship though, doing research on brain cells! It is SOOOOO fulfilling you have no idea.
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And that’s just plain awesome!! Not all applicants will be able to writ that their summer research on brain cells was SOOOOOOO fulfilling!</p>
<p>Seriously, I think there’s more going for you than you give yourself credit for. Really look at what you’ve done throughout high school, why you’ve done it, and how you can best convey that in your application. Continue to get more involved in the things you love. Take a deep look inside and then just let put yourself down on that page, and don’t hold anything back. That counts for so much more than a silly leadership title.</p>
<p>i have. however, these people were exceptionally good writers. ;)</p>
<p>Thanks Star, for being so encouraging! I sure hope you are right, and no matter what happens really, i know i'm going to be happy knowing at least that i tried my best. :)</p>
<p>lol celsius, i like what you said too! ;)</p>
<p>at first i was kind of confused, until i realized that you were answering my first question!</p>