"No more than 5 AP courses"

<p>Bookmarked.</p>

<p>“AP Lite” depends on the school…at S1’s school, AP curriculum was considered the minimum level of what was actually taught in the course. The school was able to avoid the AP folks’ curriculum requirements by going way beyond what CB expected for the course. It also enabled kids to take more post-AP electives because they weren’t bogged down in AP courses for a full year.</p>

<p>For example, Applied Statistics was a calculus-based one-semester course. Pre-req of BC Calc required. (My other son took the regular AP Stat course at his HS. Both got 5s – no comparison to what they each learned, though.) S1’s calculus teacher taught BC Calc in one semester and just kept going farther and deeper the rest of the year. AP Comp Sci AB (before it became A only) was a one-semester course at his HS, with the intro programming course plus algorithms and data structures as pre-reqs. S1 took AP Physics C after taking mathematical physics (pre-req DiffEq). </p>

<p>At some schools, AP BC Calc and Physics ARE “lite” courses.</p>

<p>At S2’s IB program, they taught both AP and IB curricula, so there was more work in some courses to cover the differences. Many kids (mine included) took the AP exam in addition to the IB to make sure they’d get placement/credit. He wound up with 11 APs and 6 IBs. In retrospect, I wish we could have found a happier medium.</p>

<p>Both my kids (at different high schools) reported a HUGE difference in the commitment and engagement of students in regular courses vs. AP/IB/post-AP. They generally got lower grades in the “easy” classes because it was much tougher to deal with the lower expectations. S1 had to create storyboards for an honors English class senior year. He got a D on the project because he drew them instead of downloading copyrighted material from the movie on which the assignment was based. He was extremely sorry he didn’t take AP Lit instead (he had taken AP Comp junior year).</p>

<p>At our flagship, both would have entered as at least second semester sophomores due to AP/IB credit. At the schools they attended, they got a max of 5 or 6 APs credited.</p>

<p>Re: #62</p>

<p>That must be an unusual and academically elite high school.</p>

<p>Yes, teaching what are commonly “AP lite” courses in one semester instead of one year makes them non-“lite”, because that is more how a college would teach them. This is a practice that more high schools should consider, if they really want to make AP courses like actual college courses.</p>

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<p>Examples:</p>

<p>Calculus BC taught over one year (not as a second year following a year of calculus AB).</p>

<p>Chemistry, psychology, statistics, US government, economics, physics C mechanics, etc. taught as semester courses instead of year courses.</p>

<p>Basically, any AP commonly given subject credit or placement for a semester long college course would be “AP lite” if taught over a year, but non-“lite” if taught over a semester.</p>

<p>^^^ ucb, yup. We were really fortunate to live in an area where that kind of education is available in the public schools.</p>

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<p>Based on a look at a released human geography AP test, even AP human geography is not all that difficult for a high school course (much less a college course). Perhaps it may be a suitable high school freshman or sophomore level social studies course (indeed, some students posting here have listed it among their freshman or sophomore level courses, and others have mentioned it as an “easy to self study” AP test). Just because it is the hardest course available in the high school does not mean that it is actually college level, which the AP brand implies.</p>

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<p>Again, just because a given course is the hardest available course in the high school does not mean that it is a course at full college-level rigor. Indeed, your high school is doing a disservice to the students who are best in math – those two years ahead should be capable of handling calculus at full college speed (BC over one year) and rigor.</p>

<p>When I was in high school, there was only one calculus course, which followed the BC syllabus in a year. Most of the students were seniors who were a year ahead of the normal sequence. The rare two-years-ahead juniors in calculus were typically the top students in math and would have been bored at the slow pace of taking calculus over two years as seems to be the trendy thing to do these days.</p>

<p>Of course, when students get to college, those who take calculus are expected to take it at full speed (similar to BC over one year). If the top math students who are two years ahead in math need to be slow-paced in calculus (AB one year and rest of BC the next year), it is a wonder that the zero-year-ahead students in math survive calculus as college freshmen.</p>

<p>APs are meaningless. SAT/ACT scores are meaningless (and were based on racist ideology). it’s time for FREE, quality K-16 NOW !! when are we–as a country-- gonna EVOLVE and get with the program on something this basic?? it shouldn’t matter where you live. everybody deserves a free, quality education.</p>

<p>Neurotic…that’s somewhat the attitude at our small public. There are very, very good teachers that teach non-AP courses that are every bit as rigorous as an AP-branded course. The 5 teachers that offer an AP-branded courses to the juniors and seniors do a very good job and the kids at the school do well ultimately on the tests. These 5 teachers were good teachers before AP and are still good teachers, but I’ve always wondered if those teachers “enjoy” teaching the AP class as much as they did when it was just a college prep class.</p>

<p>AP lite is determined by the college, not the high school. If your highschool offers BC Calc and kids tend to do well on that AP exam taking that course, it doesn’t matter how much your school bad mouths the course, most colleges will look very favorably at it. The dynamite AP stats course is not going to be as well regarded at most selective colleges, regardless of what the word is at the high school about how great it is taught. </p>

<p>I have kids who went to a rigorous prep school that has NO courses listed as AP but anyone wanting to take AP exams can, if they are taking certain courses, and the school has AP prep sessions before the exams. Most all of the kids taking the exams get 4s and 5s. At such schools, this is indicated with evidence in the school profile and colleges can see this. </p>

<p>What the AP courses do, with strong track record of good scores on the AP exam, or better yet if the student has taken some courses and gotten good exam scores junior year or earlier, is let colleges know exactly what body of information has been mastered at that point in time. There are courses and teacher all over the country, and the world, for that matter, who teach non AP course that are every bit as rigorous as AP brand courses, but adcoms take about 5-10 on an app, and that does not give them any time to evaluate courses that are not known to them. An AP number tells them somethig that can be evaluated among a large number of students. </p>

<p>I’ve also seen AP courses or courses covering AP material well taught very well. It’s not like the material in those courses is toxic or useless. Why not cover that material when it can be well taught and can give students great advantages in college admissions?</p>

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<p>It’s a private college prep school. All classes are considered college prep. 9th grade social studies is Human Geography. College prep, honors or AP. The rest of the social studies curriculum is:</p>

<p>10th-World History
11th-US History
12th-Economics/Government</p>

<p>All are offered at all 3 levels. AP Economics/Government are full year classes. The others are semester classes.</p>

<p>The study was about using AP scores in the admissions process to predict success in college. I think the reason 5 was a magin number, is by then, you will have taken a distribution of tests in core areas: English, Math, Science, and Social Studies.</p>

<p>How to use AP’s rather than just “5 or more”? How about:</p>

<p>Did the student take a good distribution of AP classes?</p>

<p>What are the student’s AP Scores? By the time you have taken 5 or more, you will have received scores in a few of them.</p>

<p>How relevant are the AP tests to the desired major or college?</p>

<p>What did the student do with the knowledge (EC’s) or what did they do next (college classes while in HS)?</p>

<p>AP World is by far the hardest class in our high school. The teacher is amazing but expects a LOT out of her kids—but about 90% of the kids get a 5 on the AP exam as well. The kids at our high school don’t take AP Econ because the regular econ teacher is better and is always the class favorite teacher. The kids take the classes their friends take for the most part. They are almost always AP classes, but a few exceptions like Econ.</p>

<p>Collegefortwins-</p>

<p>I take all of the 15 AP classes during the school year, not in summer. 1 freshman year, 2 sophmore year (Wish I had taken more), 6 junior year, and 6 senior year. </p>

<p>My junior schedule went like this:
AP Physics B (Will get credit for 2 semesters in college)
AP English language (Will get credit for 2 semesters in college)
AP Stat (Will get credit for 1 semesters in college)
AP U.S. History (Will get credit for 2 semesters in college)
AP Calc AB (Will get credit for 1 semesters in college)
AP Microeconomics (1 semester course online) (Will get credit for 1 semesters in college)
Fine Arts Elective
Pre-AP Spanish
Btw, I got all A’s because my PUBLIC school makes this load very manageable and does not give too much homework. Nonetheless my school still adequately prepares people for the AP exam and my AP chem class last year had an 80+% pass rate! (Got a five!)Most smart people take at least 3-4 AP classes at my school during junior year.</p>

<p>D (HS class of 2012) took 11 APs, for no other reason than that they were the most advanced courses available at her high school, and it was the norm for advanced students to take the AP courses rather than the on-level or honors courses in the same subject. She ended up attending our state flagship, and was pleasantly surprised to find herself entering with second-semester sophomore standing. So far, her AP classes do seem to have left her adequately prepared for the more advanced classes she has taken or is taking, and her current plan is to graduate in three years. She wasn’t planning on this at the time she took the AP classes, but it does seem like a solid benefit.</p>

<p>If our high school didn’t offer AP classes, I would have taken my kid out of school as a sophomore and had her enroll in college. The honors or advanced designation for classes here is a joke. The district is too bogged down in bureaucracy to think outside the box and do their own thing so AP classes are the only way to be challenged at all. The hardest AP class at our school is AP Calc AB/BC. The teacher is amazing. His pass rate is nearly 100% and most pass the exam with a 5. Easiest? So far AP psych as far as my D is concerned. She has a 104 in that class. Lol. One of my D’s will graduate with 9 AP’s and the other with 3.</p>

<p>^It’s an outrage. </p>

<p>Here’s a question for people here who are/or whose kids are taking science AP’s. Does your school require a regular section of the subject prior to the AP section? IOW, do you have to take Biology/Honors Biology before you can take AP Biology, etc.?</p>

<p>At our school AP Bio is a double period in 10th grade, no honors bio ahead of time, same with Chemistry (typically 11th grade class), not sure about Physics</p>

<p>There are no designated “pre-AP” classes - in English and Math, kids are in one of several tracks, - math advanced tracks leads to AP Calc BC senior year (in 1 year), while honors math track leads to AP Calc AB senior year.</p>

<p>Some kids do take BC Calc Junior Year and AP Stats senior year</p>

<p>We also have a full IB program so those science and math courses are done somewhat differently. English has been combined with AP curriculum as has history.</p>

<p>Our school lets the kids take the class they want to take. The do have the kids meet with their teachers from the current year before they sign up for classes to get suggestions of what classes will be best for them. Some kids take the AP sections without taking the honors or regular section, some do not. Mostly it depends on what they plan to do in college.</p>

<p>AP Biology and Chemistry do require a year of preparation in each of those subjects before the year of APs. For AP Physics classes, one does need proficiency in Pre Calculus for Physics B AP and AP Calculus for Physics C (co requisites).</p>

<p>sylvan - I have been wondering the same thing. Our hs requires students to take the regular section prior to the AP sciences and have completed all of Precalc prior to AP Physics. Based on the numbers of AP courses that some students are able to take during hs, I’m thinking that must not be the case everywhere. I’m feeling as though our hs shortchanged DS on this… wish I’d known and perhaps I could have fought the requirement.</p>