No Music Degree - To Professional Musician - How?

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>I'm soon graduating from an Ivy League university... but with an economics degree. In high school I was discouraged from majoring in music and came to college thinking that because I was good at so many things, not doing music shouldn't be a big deal. </p>

<p>I was wrong. What I really want to do is be a professional orchestral musician. I've continued to take lessons, but have not taken any Music Theory or Music History classes. I know that I will have to go to music school to get the training and resume I need to qualify for orchestral auditions. </p>

<p>NOW - I'm stuck. </p>

<p>1) I could try to enroll at a Music Conservatory or top US music school and complete a Bachelor's degree in music. However, some schools I've talked to do NOT accept second Bachelor's degree applicants at all (I'm not sure why).
2) I could try to enroll at a music school for a Master's degree in music. However, since I don't have any of the necessary pre-requisite coursework in Theory or History, they will not accept me.
3) Money & Time are also big factors... as I can't pay to stay in school for "too long". However, I believe I have what it takes to potentially succeed in the music world (and IF NOT), I will still be able to fall back on teaching gigs or more typical career paths with my current BA degree. </p>

<p>What should I do? Do you know of music schools that would accept me as a Master's student without completion of pre-requisites? </p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

2

<p>You don’t need a degree to audition for orchestral positions. You need the talent to get through those auditions. Have you considered a Performance Certificate program? They are very much performance oriented…not very many classes at all. You would have to apply and audition and get accepted. I’m not even sure if you could do this with a degree in some other field, but it’s worth checking (and someone else here might know).</p>

<p>And you can take lessons, practice, practice, practice, and take some orchestral auditions even for regional orchestras where you might either get a position or become a substitute and get called at least periodically.</p>

3

<p>Thumper’s advice is excellent. However, it is wise not to be too naive about the realities of the (classical) music world.</p>

<p>Point your browser to:
[url=<a href=“http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=20&i=494&t=494]Keepers[/url”>http://test.woodwind.org/clarinet/BBoard/read.html?f=20&i=494&t=494]Keepers[/url</a>]
(It is a clarinet-related thread, but the statements hold true across the field.)</p>

<p>Read every word of it.</p>

4

<p>It’s not an ideal path, obviously. Even if you did everything by the book, orchestral jobs aren’t real easy to come by. And you’ve lost the years of study, orchestral experience, networking, etc.</p>

<p>Many orchestra auditions require an application first. Based on that application, they would decide if they wanted a screening CD. Some will have the screening waived, others may be rejected outright. I know of a Juilliard grad, Rice Masters degree student who received a “don’t bother” letter - not even asking for a screening CD. Clearly that orchestra was looking for a high level of experience - even a name brand education didn’t get her toe in the door.</p>

<p>So to me, the first step would be to beef up your resume.<br>
Take lessons from high quality teachers.<br>
I feel certain there are programs out there who would allow you to enroll as an undergrad for a new degree. However, the artist’s diploma is an option worth pursuing as well.
Audition for summer programs. That’s another way to network.
You don’t mention your instrument - can you create an ensemble - string, woodwind, brass whatever - And get some gigs?<br>
Perform in community orchestras to get orchestral experience.<br>
Audition for sub jobs in lower level orchestras to get some experience as well. </p>

<p>For what it’s worth, Alan Greenspan studied clarinet at Juilliard, then got his econ degree (NYU, I think). And I’m the mom of S1 - a gov’t economist (who plays several instruments quite well), and S2 - a Juilliard grad (who really likes economics.)</p>

5

<p>You’ve got a tough row to hoe here. You need the training, the experience, and the opportunity to be surrounded by peer musicians of extraordinary ability. You do not need a resume. The name of the school, be it Juilliard, Curtis, NEC or Podunk U will not get you an orchestral chair. The network you develop will help a bit. Perhaps who your private instructor is will open a few doors and present a few opportunities. What will get you a position is professional level talent, perseverance, blood, sweat, tears, and a good bit of luck.</p>

<p>A second bachelor’s is normally not the norm; federal student aid is NOT available for a second bachelors, in the event you were not aware of this. </p>

<p>If you had any inkling of heading on a path to a conservatory, you could have taken theory and music history as electives. The music majors at the Ivys are all academically based, and some have very good theory, comp, and music history faculties. But that is water under the bridge. Many self study theory, and have few issues at the undergrad level. Depending on your location, you may be able to find a university music program that offers theory/history in summer sessions. You will have to look, as not all do. </p>

<p>Look closely at the conservatory master’s programs. There is a theory requirement for admissions (in the form of a test, plus grad level theory as part of a master’s program). There is also a remedial theory set of courses at many grad programs for those that meet admissions/auditions standards but are weak in theory. </p>

<p>The fact that you have continued to study privately is a plus. What about continued high level orchestral, ensemble participation? Did you play at all as an undergrad, and in what level instrumental performing organizations? A few of the Ivys field ensembles that can rival the best of the conservatories, while some are below the level of a high quality youth symphony. Did you do any competitive conservatory/preprofessional type festivals or immersion programs during your undergrad summers?</p>

<p>How are your current chops? Can you be competitive in a grad school audition pool on your instrument?</p>

<p>Look at the grad programs that you are interested in, and the rep and admissions requirements. Look also for a Performer’s Certificate program, which is a performance based professional training course of study, similar to a BM but without the academic requirements of the degree. It is a three, sometimes two year program. It can be found at most of the conservatory level programs under “programs of study” or “degrees offered”.</p>

<p>Please do read there two threads <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/460187-how-many-music-voice-performance-majors-find-jobs.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/460187-how-many-music-voice-performance-majors-find-jobs.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Nothing is impossible, yet not everything is possible. You are competing with the best, for far too few positions. Think long, think hard. I wish you luck.</p>

<p>To answer thumper1, yes the performer’s certificate can be with an existing bachelor’s; it is often done in lieu of a bachelor’s degree.</p>

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<p>Too late to edit the above, but the non degree Performer’s Certificate is also called an undergrad performance certificate or diploma. These are also offered at the graduate level, and can be termed professional performance diploma (or certificate), graduate professional diploma, or other name to distinguish them from a Masters of Music degree.</p>

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<p>When you said that people discouraged you from majoring in music, I could imagine anything from “music majors can’t make a living in music, major in something practical so you can get a job after you graduate” to having received some kind of discouraging feedback during high school about your readiness/competitiveness for audition-based music programs that interested you at the time. (Even if it was the second possibility I mentioned, I am sure there have cases in which talented musicians have received inaccurate negative evaluations of talent/potential, for students who started instrumental study later than others, or were too busy with academics and other activities to put in enough time practicing, as examples). </p>

<p>It would be helpful to know what instrument you play, and what has been your level of musical training/involvement before and during college. Have you told your current private teacher about your interest in a career in music? If you like and respect this teacher, I would think his/her evaluation of your talent, potential and readiness for formal academic study in performance, as well as suggestions on how to approach this, would be useful. </p>

<p>Even if you have been taking lessons during college, you probably have not had the same time to practice as a music performance major and may be behind others who majored in music because of that. So I noticed you said you don’t have a lot of time now, but time may be what you need if you have to prepare audition repertoire for one of the programs others have described here. Good luck!</p>

8

<p>Thanks everyone for the responses so far! </p>

<p>Originally, I spoke about resumes because I know most auditions do resume-screenings before they even let you audition.</p>

<p>I hadn’t really thought about Certificate Programs because I equated them with “Professional Studies” which I thought were for post-Masters study, but will look into it. </p>

<p>In high school, I did not pursue music, because of the former theory - “It’s not practical to make money in the real world.” Especially with my ability to get into a top university. However, my high school music credentials rivaled that of top conservatory-bound students. </p>

<p>Wouldn’t it make sense to give music a shot now, and take the risk, while I still can?</p>

9

<p>Just want to add that many conservatories have continuing education programs that are very rigorous, where you could take some theory and history in order to prepare for application to conservatory for an MM. As someone said, this may not be absolutely necessary (there may be remedial courses, and also you could go for the diploma instead) but it might be useful, and would increase your own knowledge and enjoyment of music.</p>

<p>Have you been thinking about this direction for awhile, or is it somehow related to the recession? By that I mean, many students and even older adults may be returning to passions that they discarded for practical money reasons, during the financial boom of recent years. Now, many are returning to school and otherwise delaying “serious” jobs in finance, law etc. while the economy hovers at the bottom.</p>

<p>I think you can work and practice and prepare for auditions/applications, but clearly no matter what, you can continue with music in your life.</p>

<p>I would also think about all the many ways musicians pursue their vocation. Orchestral work is not the only way to go. </p>

<p>Do you have any interest in teaching or working with young people? That may sound random, but outreach and education can be a worthy way to make a living while playing seriously out of work.</p>

<p>Just some thoughts…</p>

10

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<p>Just to clarify, the performer’s certificate curriculum does not exclude theory (or music history), and the level and quantity of required coursework in these areas is the same as it is for a BM performance candidate at institutions offering both undergrad options.</p>

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<p>This is a personal decision, and depends upon your own goals, and mindset, and whether you you can live with or without giving it a shot. No one can answer this for you. It’s a dilemma many face. There are some anecdotes and opinions in the thread I linked earlier
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/460187-how-many-music-voice-performance-majors-find-jobs.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/460187-how-many-music-voice-performance-majors-find-jobs.html&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>The few musicians I’ve known personally going an MM route after a non music bachelor’s degree all had the “typical” high immersion experiences of conservatory bound undergrads. At the college level, they continued private instruction (within or outside of their college), participated in the highest quality ensembles available to them, gigged, and spent most collegiate summers in competitions, festival and high level instruction/performance opportunities.</p>

<p>You’ve got seven to eight months months to prep for either grad school or certificate auditions. Given your background as described, you probably have a shot, with success contingent upon the program and the pool of talent you’d be up against. Any audition based program is a crapshoot.</p>

<p>You might want to do some serious investigation as to programs, and I would speak frankly with admissions folk. You may be able to hedge your bets at application and auditions, and ask upfront if they will allow a dual consideration, perhaps allowing you to audition as an MM candidate, yet consider the same audition for a performer’s certificate admit if you don’t meet the grad standard. A bit non standard, but I’d wager you’ll find a number of programs might well allow you this flexibility. But I would ask the questions upfront.</p>

<p>Added:
Again, a word of caution as you mention both time and money in your op. Funding at the grad level does not follow the rules for federal aid options available for need based undergrad funding. Your only federal assistance will be in the form of a graduate Plus loan, in your name. Monetary awards, grad and teaching assistant stipends and positions are all highly competitive and are doled out to the most competitive candidates. </p>

<p>My guess is there is not much institutional money given at the performer’s certificate level, and it is my understanding that federal assistance is not available for a second ug pursuit once an initial bachelor’s has been conferred. As the PC is not a degree, but a professional/technical program, you should speak with knowledgeable financial aid folks as to what if any assistance (other than private loans) might be available.</p>

11

<p>Just adding a thought in response to something compmom said about the recession. After everything that has happened with the banking sector and U.S./global economies, I have read that fewer college students are interested in majoring in fields like economics right now. But having also read about so many people losing their high paying jobs, and your still feeling confident about getting an entry job with bachelor’s degree in economics that would pay $60,000-70,000, I was impressed. </p>

<p>Putting your interest in music aside, I would suggest that you ask yourself if under any circumstances you could imagine yourself working in a field that would use your economics degree. Because if you put that aside for a few years to devote yourself to something else like music, and it doesn’t work out for whatever reason, could you imagine going back to the world of business/finance (or whatever economics majors do) and would your economics degree have the “shelf life” so that you could step back into that? Or would you want/need to do something else all together. I am not trying to discourage your interest in a music career, just important to think all these things through.</p>

12

<p>Just happened across this <a href=“The Hartt School - University of Hartford”>The Hartt School - University of Hartford; which I though the op might find interesting from a theory/history standpoint.</p>