<p>MOMMY5. Simply. No. I don’t. Actors resumes don’t include where they went to school. My professional design resume doesn’t include it - nor does anyone else’s that I’m aware of. Do we make assumptions based on the school someone chooses? Yes. But I think you would be very surprised at how those assumptions change once you get into a room of directors, casting directors, agents and professionals. I also know how little it counts to them and how that opinion changes from year to year. Just my two cents. I’ll bow out of this discussion now. Except for this. GO BADGERS!</p>
<p>Kjgc, I love reading your posts, and usually agree with you, but in this case we can just agree to disagree.</p>
<p>Fishbowl posted this a while back, I thought I would put it up again… Helps my argument anyway! :)</p>
<p>[The</a> Hollywood Reporter’s List of the 25 Top Drama Schools - The Hollywood Reporter](<a href=“http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/top-25-drama-schools-319963]The”>The Hollywood Reporter’s List of the 25 Top Drama Schools – The Hollywood Reporter)</p>
<p>“I look at the school, and anyone who tells you they don’t is lying to you,” says producer Todd Black, who helped cast the Meryl Streep film Hope Springs. “I’m gonna look much faster at a kid from a top school than from the University of Southern North Dakota.”</p>
<p>^ I was just dreaming up a diplomatic way to approach relinking that. And to continue the quote …
</p>
<p>I don’t know what Design/Tech people do, but actors most certainly put their degree programs in the training section of their resumes and it is one of the first things industry types look at in submissions from new actors after the headshot. The training section of mine includes three lines: On-Camera/Coaching, my degree program and my high school program. Some even break them down to include the teachers’ names by category. Working actors with academic BA Theatre degrees put them on there, too, although it’s usually at the bottom below the other studio training they’ve had. I’d be willing to bet that Monica has both her Delaware MFA and Denison BFA on hers …</p>
<p>MOMMY5, on every acting resume I’ve seen it always says which school the actor attended ESPECIALLY if it is a BFA program.</p>
<p>We need not agree or disagree. The reason that there is a community is to solicit opinions. I have mine, others have theirs. It is entirely possible that I am wholly incorrect. In any case, if the name of the school is important to you, then by all means, make choices using that as part of your criteria. Chances are quite good that the reputation was earned.</p>
<p>And you are correct, actors do put their schools down under training. I meant to indicate that actors only do that when they first come out of school. So, I called a friend who is a casting director in NYC. I stand corrected. It seems it is now the norm to leave your school on the resume for several years post-graduation. Perhaps a very long time for all I know. His comment was “it seems more prevalent with actors who consider themselves primarily musical theatre, but it’s there quite a lot now. That’s changed considerably. There was a time when that was only there for the first year or two out of school.” </p>
<p>Perfect example of me being wrong.</p>
<p>Personally, I think there seems to be a lot of smoke for very little fire. I think most of us agree but we’re answering different questions.
What exactly are we asking?
- Does a top BFA Program with a top reputation help you start your career? After the five year mark?
- Does a huge alumni network boost your chances at the start of your career? After a while?
- HOw does the student gain the critical connections that help so much in the business?
And so on.</p>
<p>I think we’re sort of talking at cross purposes and many of us are saying the same thing. IT’s a matter of ‘how much’ rather than ‘if.’ NO ONE is saying that alums can NEVER help. NO ONE is saying that a ‘top’ BFA program has no influence.</p>
<p>As far as resumes, people usually put their school name upon graduation. WHy not? It’s your training for four years and how you get your foot in the door. But aFter a certain point, no one cares anymore. I mean, you can keep it on for conversation’s sake, but if you’ve been in the biz for 10 years, very few will care what undergrad college you went to when they consider your part. </p>
<p>I think people are getting emotional because they are hearing “alumni don’t matter’ or 'BFA programs don’t matter.” But of course they do. </p>
<p>I guess I look it as this: It MOST important to choose a school in which you feel is a match FOR YOU. That means no matter what the reputation, you can grow and thrive in that school, you can make connections, you can learn.</p>
<p>There is no one right answer. Some people thrive by being the big fish in the little pond. SOme thrive in a third tier school with a fabulous connection to, say, a local equity theatre. OThers thrive surrounded by really talented kids–they love competition and challenge. Some like one climate, others like another. Some like ‘boot camp’; others like ‘nurturing.’</p>
<p>How many alums there are is a consideration, but to my mind, not as important as 1) what TYPE of alums there are (are there typically alums in positions of power, such as casting directors and agents? They will be able to get your foot in the door much more effectively than an actor, who typically has very little to no clout) and 2) how cohesive is the alumni network? THis is very hard to answer. It’s sort of word of mouth, and depends on the year, and it doesn’t have to do necessarily with how top ranked the school is. Some lower ranked BFA schools have fabulous supportive alums, and other top BFA programs have pretty bad alum networks. It’s not a black and white thing. </p>
<p>My take away is that of course BFA programs and alums are important. But it’s not a simple answer of stats. Fit - which is personal - is by far the most important, becuase if it’s the wrong fit and you’re miserable or not learning or it’s backstabbing or you like to be a BIg Fish and aren’t, or you like competition and aren’t getting it, then it won’t matter how Big Name the school is. </p>
<p>This boils down to doing your own research and knowing what you want. I know this is cliche, but my oldest made the mistake of relying entirely on reputation. The fit ended up being all wrong FOR HIM. It can be really bad if the fit is wrong, trust me. Thankfully, my D is now in a school in which the fit is great FOR HER. Happy, thriving, learning, supported, challenged, engaged students make for productive adults. This can happen in almost any BFA program depending on what is right FOR YOU.</p>
<p>Thank you for that post, Connections.</p>
<p>Connections – I don’t have the same take as you do on this thread. I don’t see this discussion as either “smoke” or “fire” but just a good open discussion where people share different viewpoints and the only one I saw getting a bit emotional on this thread was me after Fishbowl claimed it was doubtful whether Bo Ryan was a better teacher of the game than Huckleberry Hound (aka Roy Williams, UNC coach).</p>
<p>Well, sure ActingDad! Anyone would get emotional about Bo Ryan versus Huckleberry Hound. GO Badgers!</p>
<p>Connections is always great at summarizing the main points of discussions, but I’m not reading a great deal of emotion into the various povs, either. If you want emotional, look up some of the old cut and “rank” discussions on the MT forum … </p>
<p>I don’t follow basketball, but it’s nice to see that my talent for riling up baseball, football and international soccer homers translates. I had a great time with the 9ers bandwagon during the Superbowl. Badgers? We don’t need no stinkin’ badgers! ;)</p>
<p>connections, great post.</p>
<p>ActingDad, greetings from all of us Badgers over here!</p>
<p>One thing we sometimes don’t remember on this forum is that even though we are an unusual subset, this is still the college application and admissions game. Everyone who is wondering where they should and can go to college asks what going to a particular schools will mean for them, or do for them. All over CC, people are worrying that if they don’t go to a “name” school, or if the school they choose doesn’t have enough alumni connections, that it somehow will negatively affect their life or hurt their career.</p>
<p>I will remind people that as madbean said about the Ivy question in general, it’s not fair to yourself to think you need to be in some kind of elite “club” of alumni to get somewhere in this world. By sheer numbers, there just isn’t room for everyone to be in the top few percent of ranked colleges. And it isn’t logical that only people who go to those colleges will be the most successful, nor that the most successful people went only to those colleges. If we take a step back and think of this generally about colleges, I think most of us wouldn’t be so worried - we don’t want to sound like the CC “Ivy or failure” types, right?</p>
<p>There is so much theatre going on in so many places around this country, and the world, that there is a place for anyone who wants to work and is good at it. Yes, sometimes you have great talent, great connections and great luck - but sometimes even those aren’t enough to be successful - or happy. </p>
<p>My older D is in the sciences, and it definitely has been wonderful for her to have terrific mentors from her undergrad and from internships who have helped her move forward in her career. I hope the same happens for any of these kids, no matter what their field is. And I think any program that takes an interest in its students will help them take their early career steps, especially if the student is open to advice and willing to work hard.</p>
<p>I’m still giving KJGC a standing ovation for post #37!</p>
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<p>Obviously, you are a professional performing arts person, but I don’t agree. Most actor resumes I have seen include the actor’s training which often includes a degree program. I know my professional actor/singer daughter has her degree program and year on her theater resume. I suppose perhaps a much older established actor may not list their educational training at some point, but I do believe that most younger actors, and not just the ones right out of school, do list their training and those who attend a BFA degree program, have that as one of the lines in their training section. And I don’t say this in terms of any prestige factor, but more so for the information of the type of training they have been through. </p>
<p>In any case, no matter where you go to school, networking really helps in this field. I know it has been a big part of my D’s professional career so far in NYC. It is not so much about notable alumni as about alumni who are working in performing arts.</p>
<p>Actors DO put their training on their resumes, often including the names of significant instructors. If the training took place at a college/uni, then they will put the name of the school on the resume. The actors who don’t put their training on their resume are the actors who don’t have any training.</p>
<p>kjgc, I see that you have some knowledge of CCM’s acting being a very strong program just not as visible as their MT program. How would you compare a BFA in acting from CCM vs a BFA in acting from Emerson? My S is considering both and doesn’t know much about either yet.
Thank You for any insight you might have or pros and cons we may not have considered.</p>
<p>I’m a little confused about the statement that actors don’t include their education on their resumes. I thought it was common to include education-- I have not seen a resume that omits this information. I have seen bios in printed programs that don’t mention education, but not resumes.</p>
<p>I’m also baffled by the statement that actors don’t include their education on their resumes, as I wrote above, because I have seen it on most actors’ resumes, particularly when they have a degree in acting, theater, or musical theater. </p>
<p>kjgc, I am also surprised that you say that your degree is not on your professional theater design resume. I’m less familiar with theater design. However, my daughter has two resumes. One is her actor resume, which has her BFA degree in the training section, among other things. But she also works as a musical director, accompanist, college and HS level MT teacher, and MT composer/lyricist/writer and she has her degree on the resume/CV that she uses for those purposes, as well as for fellowships she has been selected for. In fact, she is on the faculty of a BFA program and even her faculty bio mentions her BFA degree. I assumed that including one’s degree is important in these other areas of theater, not just in acting.</p>
<p>^ He checked into that and recanted at least as to actors in post 45. :)</p>
<p>fish, yes, you are right. But now I am trying to understand the use (or not) of one’s degree on a resume for other types of work in theater and academia, since he mentioned he did not list his degree on his theater design resume either. I am interested since my kid has a resume for her non-acting work in theater as well (including in academia too).</p>
<p>In my other job at a small professional theatre I read a lot of resumes from design, musician, and other “behind the scenes” people. Most do list their education on their resumes if their education is in theatre (or music)… not necessarily if their education is in another areas… although some do.</p>