I know there is only need based aid for any Ivy League student. Last night, my friends were certain that if an Ivy League school wants an athlete, they will find a way to give money, regardless of need.
One person said he met the spouse of someone in _________ admissions who said that yes, they do give money if they want athletes, regardless of financial need. I said I was 100% certain that is not the case.
Are there ever any occasions when the Ivy League will provide some form of financial incentive if they really want an athlete, regardless of financial need? If a coach says “I want that student. I know his/her parents can’t pay the full price, but they won’t be able to get need-based aid”, will the Ivy League schools find a way to make it happen financially?
@Lindagaf You’ve been around long enough to know that the plural of anecdote is not data.
The speculations about “I heard…” “someone told me…” etc brings to mind a quote from SpongeBob, “Why, once I met this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this guy’s cousin…” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEVaXyu0lWc
Or, from Ferris Bueller’s Day Off;: “My best friend’s sister’s boyfriend’s brother’s girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who’s going with the girl who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it’s pretty serious.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLWGDxGh2G4
Or, from REO Speedwagon’s “Take It On The Run:” “Heard it from a friend who / Heard it from a friend who / Heard it from another you been messin’ around” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G8jAPPjpGs
Just because you heard something (or saw it on Reddit) does not make it true.
There is no athletic scholarship money in the Ivy League. There are no student-athletes that have received commitments from an Ivy League school as a HS freshman. I’m of the opinion that if the school found additional money, it was through an FA review that all accepted applicants can request.
Logically if the Ivy League did that they would be more competitive!
The lure of an ivy education is enough that those schools get all but the very best athletes (at least in men’s soccer). And those top athletes, with dreams of going pro, go to more highly ranked academic schools (eg Stanford, Northwestern).
Also my spouse used to work for a well known boarding school that absolutely positively did not give merit aid, and yet every so often someone would claim they did.
@skieurope , I understand and am aware there is no athletic money. I am planning to send the link to this thread so they can see other opinions apart from my own.
Is there a possibility that the FA review provides a “loophole”? If a coach desperately wants an athlete, and the parents can’t afford it, does the coach have other “back up” athletes ready to go? If the AO says “admit”, but the parents can’t pay, the student will be out of luck, correct? Or do they do some kind of financial pre-read to see if parents can afford it? Though I guess that’s what the Net Price Calculator is for.
i have no difficulty believing that an ivy league school could find a way to provide money to a desired athlete “off the record”.
And a friend of mine’s daughter was recruited/committed to Harvard as an athlete her HS freshman year and is starting this fall. May not have been official (whatever that means) but the end result is acceptance, attendance and playing her sport.
I too am curious on this.
Midwest kid around the corner who’s grown up with my kids has tweeted there’s been offers from two HYP schools. We are hoping it shakes out well for this kid; and I too have heard others say “oh those schools will find a way to make it happen for this family.” Yet I read CC and have learned so much; so I’m curious on how it turns out. It’s a headcount sport, so there are other full-ride offers on the table now; although at smaller, uncompetitive schools. Maybe sometime I’ll have a chat with the parents and get more of the story~
See my post above. She may have been recruited and she may be attending, but there was no commitment as a freshman. Not to say that there were not conversations like “We are really interested in you and if you get XXXX on your SATs and have a X.YZ GPA we think you will have a shot at acceptance.” But even if she posted on Twitter or one of the recruiting sites as a freshman that she "committed, " if she did not pass the pre-read at the appropriate time, she would not be going to Harvard.
The NPC for Ivy League schools is the same for athletic recruits as it is for any other student, so there should be no real surprises unless the applicant has special circumstances listed in the disclaimer.
Coaches will usually have more students lined up than they have slots for. Some students fall out because they don’t pass the academic pre-read. Some opt for another school. Some prove to be a bad fit after the OV. So while a coach may want an athlete, s/he may not get an athlete for whatever reason, but will generally have another lined up. But in terms of FA, the office may “find” an extra 5K by recrunching the numbers, as it might for any FA review The college may also manage to supplement with a very low-pressure job in the athletics office. But if the gap is 50K, given the generous FA offered by the Ivy League, then we’re getting into parents not wanting to pay vs can’t pay, and that gap is not closing no matter how badly the coach or AD wants an athlete. Additionally, although admissions and FA will fall under the same pyramid head, the offices are separate, so I’m not sure any pressure from admissions, let alone from the AD, will result in a different FA award than is warranted. And since recruits are usually ED/SCEA applicants, they still have options with other schools, even if no other school were recruiting them.
The other thing I will add is that while, like parents, an AD loves all his/her sports equally, one should not be surprised if the tree is shaken a bit harder for a headcount or revenue sport.
@Lindagaf not to my knowledge…that was just an aside regarding skieurope’s post about HS freshman athlete commitment. Both non FA money and early commitments may be officially no-no’s but unofficially who knows…hope this thread provides some insight.
My understanding is the coaches can have some influence over admission at IVY schools but don’t affect the need based aid. Could be wrong but that’s what I’ve been told from seemingly knowledgeable folks.
We know an Iong-time Ivy league coach who has years of experience with the frustration of no merit/athletic awards and no guarantee of admission for top recruits. The league rules are real, and they are enforced. There is no magic pot of money to get full pay kids a break. At the same time, the generous HYP financial aid policies can mean that financial aid goes to some families who might not get aid at other schools. In terms of timing and recruiting, kids may “commit to the process” at Ivy league schools – having been told the coach wants them and, as long as they x gpa and y test score, they are solid. But check those twitter accounts 3 years later and those students may not be going to the Ivy league school to which they had “committed to the process.” Since there is no athletic scholarship, there is no national letter of intent, and therefore no binding commitment either way, between the school and the athlete (and NLIs don’t get signed until senior year, as best I recall). Just because someone says they got merit award or got a likely letter as a sophomore doesn’t mean it happened.
There is no preference in FA for athletes at Ivies (or D3 schools). I think the schools are all on the same page about that.
The benefit the athlete might get is help with knowing how the FA system works. Getting another offer from a peer school, knowing to mention recent medical bills, knowing to apply for FA at all, even if the family has a lot of assets or high income, knowing how to appeal an offer. And don’t kid yourself that ‘knowing’ how it works isn’t a big help. I had no idea and stumbled through most of the recruiting process not understanding how merit aid and athletic aid and need based aid all worked.
The Ivies have 10 athletes for every spot, and some of those 10 can pay the sticker price. The coaches really have no reason to try and play the system. They like the system and want to keep their jobs. They like not having to deal with the scholarships and parents asking for more money and kids not having enough money to stay in school.
Someone is always going to think the aid they received was based on athletic ability in the Ivies and D3 schools. Help in admissions? Yes. Help in FA? Doubtful. But you aren’t going to convince them otherwise.
I once came across someone who was reported by the hometown newspaper to be attending Yale on a “full ride merit scholarship.” When I said no such thing existed, the student explained that the scholarship actually came from some other source, where the purpose of that other source was to provide scholarships specifically for Yale students not eligible for need-based aid, and that that was basically the same thing as a merit scholarship from Yale.
I’m still rolling my eyes, but I don’t entirely rule out the idea that somewhere out there is a shadow group funding certain applicants, and intentionally not publicizing it so as to ensure that only the right applicants apply / are nominated.
Legitimately, through Harvard official channels, not a quarter given in “aid” or other money to athletes. However, as the recent college admissions scandal clearly shows,there are unscrupulous folks out there that have their own channels to move money
Back in my day, A very prized athlete with a. Heart wrenching backstory,URM, terrible challenges got a half ride aid package because that’s what the numbers saudhe should get. Not a dime more. Athlete went on to a top D1 program in line for the pros. Harvard would not pay. and he could not pay the cost. He needed a full ride. Anecdotal, yes. But about as tempting of a situation to make exception that I have ever seen, and the athlete was top gun in an impact sport and highly desirable in every way as a Harvard admit. They would not budge
But that’s not to say that outside agents don’t get involved. I knew a local public school district with a phenomenal sports program. The school itself did not recruit. The coaches hired were specifically told they could not recruit and they stuck hard and fast to that line. But parents in the districts,legacy, supporters,etc did recruit. No rules to impede that.
Sothere is no way anyone can absolutely say that some Harvard or any school athlete is not getting undertable payments. Lying, cheating , stealing, dishonesty happens everywhere and Harvard would not be an exception
Well, there is in sports. I don’t know if the Ivies disallow outside scholarships based on sports, but at other schools any outside scholarships would have to be reported to the school/athletic department, and those funds would count against the team totals for scholarships if they are in any way associated with sports. Since the Ivies don’t give athletic scholarships and thus don’t have team limits, I don’t think the NCAA would care but the other schools in the league might so I’m sure there is a rule that covers that.
Of course there are still cheaters, but why would someone be bragging, even if just to neighbors, that their child will be receiving under the table money to go to Yale?
If @Lindagaf 's friends want to believe there is under the table money, let them. There is not an actual athlete in this case trying to get in and getting athletic aid disguised as need based aid.
Genuine question: can a private school give “FA” to any student or does that student really need to qualify? If so how is that enforced? Does it depend on where the funds are sourced such endowment vs. donor funds etc…?
For Ivy League schools, any outside scholarships would need to be reported to the FA office and would be applied, at least for Harvard, in the following order:
• Reducing academic year job expectations
• Reducing summer job expectations
• Reducing grants by the leftover amount.
Now are there people who try to hide this? Or are there boosters that may try (and succeed) to do under-the-table methods? Let’s not be naive. But that’s not what @Lindagaf 's acquaintance is claiming (although he’d be a fool to say that out loud), nor is that what the OP is asking us to help validate.
Remember, at the end of the day, this is the Ivy League. They are not, and cannot, compete for the Christian McCaffrey / Solomon Thomas level of student-athlete. Those kids will go to Stanford on a full-ride. There will still be an abundance of talents and capable recruits from which to choose, but no family should expect that there are smoke-filled rooms covered in ivy where these financial negotiations are taking place.
If that happened, wouldn’t it have been disclosed during the Harvard admissions lawsuit?
I too like @Lindagaf have been told that so and so’s kid is attending Harvard on an athletic scholarship. I chalk it up to confusion between financial aid and merit and athletic money.
I don’t know all the NCAArules, but receiving outside money is subject to scrutiny. Just not going back to find and cite the examples.
I worked in Development for an Ivy and the “needs based only” is taken very seriously by the whole unversty. I’ve also seen this from the admissions side.
Yes, by the universal FA rules, a college can recalculate “need,” but has to treat all families in that perticular situation equally. And usually- if not always- via the Professional Judgment process. Not up front.
I agree, it’s one thing to find another 2-5k. But not to bend rules. This isn’t just some action that can be hidden behind the U gates. There are layers of oversight, outside the college walls.
