<p>pilebay:</p>
<p>the Univ of Alaska, your home state, charges OOS tution.</p>
<p>Karth:</p>
<p>don't forget that regardless of a college diploma, an undocumented person cannot legally obtain a job, thus earnings potential is limited until some paperwork comes through. Indeed, the LA Times had an article recently about a girl who graduated with honors from UCLA but could not be hired by any local corporation. Instead, she went back to her family's 'business'.....</p>
<p>For college purposes - if an illegal alien has started the process to become a legal resident of the state they reside in - I don't see any problem allowing them in-state tuition in that state - and I agree with the idea that they have had to be in high school for the 3 previous years in the US - until they are 18 - just like US kids - they are legally their parents kiddo - not an adult - and were brought here by their parents.</p>
<p>I have no problem with an illegal alien college student involved in the process of becoming legal - and having to be available for military service either - to serve the country that is allowing them here.</p>
<p>The process of becoming a legal resident is not a quick one - and if they are going to be allowed to reap the benefit of college - that should be allowed with the understanding that their legal residency status is taken care of. If their parents choose not to become legal residents of the US - the kids need to be allowed to initiate this process.</p>
<p>Wouldn't be suprised to see a lawsuit over the admissions policy. How they make it a lot harder for out of state kids. Oh well, it's the UC system, they've always been a target.</p>
<p>UC can afford more lawyers and they are in the right.</p>
<p>
[quote]
don't forget that regardless of a college diploma, an undocumented person cannot legally obtain a job, thus earnings potential is limited until some paperwork comes through.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This is true, but if the student begins her paperwork well before entering college (while in high school, for example) s/he may be able to get a job upon graduation. It might also be in the state's (or nation, I don't know the specifics of if a work permit - state - or visa/greencard is needed) best interest to expedite processing the paperwork for those who have demonstrated that they will graduate from college with a degree. Possibly the college will hold the paperwork until graduation at which point the student would recieve it? This way, there's an added incentive for the student to complete an undegraduate education. The cost of expediting such paperwork can't be more than the amount a student would pay in taxes the first year on the job (a year of revenue that would otherwise be lost without expediting). Of course, this is additional bureaucracy, but may be a viable solution...</p>
<p>I figure that if someone is motivated enough to go to college knowing that they likely won't even be able to get a job upon graduation, they'll be motivated enough to do something useful with their degree if the paperwork is made easier to obtain.</p>
<p>
[quote]
UC can afford more lawyers and they are in the right.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree 100%. A large number of illegal immigrants in CA pay income taxes under false SSN's (some more unscrupulous ones will use a false ssn for getting a refund). Obviously, an out of state student/parent wouldn't. I'm out of state, and my parents haven't paid income taxes in CA since we moved to the East coast...now if only I could get back credit on those taxes and get in state tuition ;).</p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>KINGLIN - that is a very common practice across the board in many states - for many out-of-state student in a state college/university admissions process.</p>
<p>Just an article of interest - <a href="http://www.twmlaw.com/resources/general42cont.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.twmlaw.com/resources/general42cont.htm</a></p>
<p>Jeepmom:</p>
<p>pls note the avenues for citizenship, an undocumented student (even after graduation) would be hard pressed to qualify under current federal law.</p>
<p>The University of California has every right to charge out of state students higher tuitions, just as the University of Virginia, and other state funded institutions. </p>
<p>As UVA puts it:</p>
<p>"Because the University of Virginia is a state-supported school, students who are legally domiciled within the Commonwealth enjoy significant privileges in admission and in tuition."</p>
<p>Hence UC can do the same, as the schools are supported by the taxpayers of California.</p>
<p>Reeze & LakeWashington: In California, Prop 187, though passed in 1994, which denied health services, public education, and social services had an injunction imposed by a Federal Judge Matthew Byrne. And when former Governor Davis took office, he refused to continue with the appeal process, effectively killing the state-passed initiative. That is how illegal immigrants can attend California high schools.</p>
<p>pilebay: Please then go to the prestigious private university rather than attending a University of California. (BTW, UC Berkeley's GRADUATE programs are comparable to "prestigious private universities." It's undergraduate program, though not the best, still provides a decent education to its students). </p>
<p>Furthermore, "the Unique among constitutional provisions, the privileges and immunities clause of the Fourteenth Amendment enjoys the distinction of having been rendered a ''practical nullity'' by a single decision of the Supreme Court issued within five years after its ratification."[1] </p>
<p>The Supreme Court ruled that ''to transfer the security and protection of all the civil rights . . . to the Federal Government, . . . to bring within the power of Congress the entire domain of civil rights heretofore belonging exclusively to the States,'' and to ''constitute this court a perpetual censor upon all legislation of the States, on the civil rights of their own citizens, with authority to nullify such as it did not approve as consistent with those rights, as they existed at the time of the adoption of this amendment. . . . [The effect of] so great a departure from the structure and spirit of our institutions . . . is to fetter and degrade the State governments by subjecting them to the control of Congress, in the exercise of powers heretofore universally conceded to them of the most ordinary and fundamental character. . . . We are convinced that no such results were intended by the Congress . . . , nor by the legislatures . . . which ratified'' this amendment, and that the sole ''pervading purpose'' of this and the other War Amendments was ''the freedom of the slave race.''[2]</p>
<p>The University of California, and other state institutions, have every right to charge international and out of state residents a higher tuition. The issue of illegal immigrants is not the responsibility of the state of California; it is the role of the United States to take action. While the federal government has done nothing, UC has taken the initiative in doing something with illegal immigrants.</p>
<p>Those students sueing are opportunists; why did they attend UC anyway? They knew they were going to pay more.</p>
<p>[1]<a href="http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment14/02.html#f15">http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment14/02.html#f15</a> </p>
<p>[2] Ibid.</p>
<p>Additionally, California is 1 of 9 states to do so.</p>
<p>Furthermore, illegal immigrants constitute only 30% of these breaks.</p>
<p>"About 70 percent of the UC students who benefit from the California law are American citizens in unique circumstances, such as those who attended boarding school in California despite having a legal address in another state, said University of California spokeswoman Ravi Poorsina."</p>
<p>And as mentioned, the Supreme Court has upheld the use of out of state tutions numerous times, including Starns v. Malkerson.</p>
<p>Eiffelguy, I don't want to hijack the thread, but I noticed that you said Berkeley's grad schools are on par with top privates, but the ug is only decent. If thats true, what would you call the hundreds of schools that are, by most accounts, seen as being not as good as Berkeley UG? Horrible? Putrid? I'm talking about schools like UMich, USC, UCLA, Boston College, Georgetown, William & Mary, University of Virginia, etc. I'm not trying to be hostile, just curious as to your definitions.</p>
<p>Well actually I am going to a very prestigious private university and I am confident that I will get a very nice financial aid package. I believe that I said in my previous post that CA had the right to charge a lower tuition for instate residents because they were tax supported schools. Therefore I have a little suggestion for you eiffelguy87 READ THE ENTIRE POST BEFORE ATTACKING THE POSTER. I still stand by what I said though. CA is not being reasonable by charging the rates they are charging for out of state students. I mean even though University of Virginia and UNC-Chapel Hill charge a lot more for out of state students it is still reasonable and even affordable. University of California however, is not affordable for out of state students unless your parents own a fortune 500 company. I honestly believe that CA is just hurting itself by not getting out of state students. They have virtually no diversity. I mean my sister went to UCSD in the early 90's and she was a huge novelty item because most of the people there had never met someone from Alaska. Some of them even thought that we lived in igloos and used dog sleds for transportation. Thus I am very glad that I am going to a school that has people from every state and a variety of international countries.</p>
<p>pilebay, I suspect that part of the problem imay be that most other western states do not have flagship Universities on a par with the U of C - in fact, many are more comparable with the CSU colleges such as Cal Poly, San Diego State, Long Beach State, etc. Out of state tuition at those schools is significantly lower than at UC - and comparable to the out of state tuition charged at U of Alaska, U of Montana, etc. The powers that be in California may feel that that satisfies a sense of reciprocity or fairness.</p>
<p>Pilebay, I believe UC Berkeley has students from all 50 states, as well as a wide, wide variety of international countries. Also, you have to remember that California is huge. If one person is from San Diego and one person is from Humboldt County, that's just as diverse as having one person from Utah and one person from Texas, or any other two states. California is the most diverse state in arguably the most diverse country in the world, so if you're going to have just as much variety here as you will at any other school, public or private.</p>
<p>What "presitigous private university" are you going to? As far as I know, the cost of going to most private schools people talk about is comporable to going to a UC from out of state, sticker price to sticker price. Perhaps CA is hurting itself, and I agree with you, but for as much as it's hurting itself, it's not doing so bad. Affordability is relative, and if someone wants to go to a certain, expensive college, be it small LAC, prestigious this or that, or out of state public they will do their best to find a way. I do agree that there should be an increase in out of state students, and that it would benefit the university, for example, improving the culture and increasing revenues.</p>
<p>Private schools will give a better financial aid package most of the time in comparison to going to an OOS school. The exceptions being the schools with regents and presidential scholarships that are aimed towards attracting out-of-staters. </p>
<p>This whole thing gives us two scenarios. Scenario (1) UC lets out-of-staters pay the in-state price (UC loses money, probably not happening) or scenario (2) UC says that illegal immigrants have to pay the OOS fee. Of course scenario 1 is what's being debated, but scenario 2 seems like something that UC would lean towards doing.</p>
<p>i agree that it would be all right for illegal immigrants to pay out of state fees. After all, they are from "out of state".</p>
<p>Pilebay:</p>
<p>OOS tuition & fees is $18.4k at UNC and $24.3k at UVa, $27k-29k at UMich, whereas the UC's are $24.4k (ignoring the health ins), which appear in line with other top flagships. Where the UC's are high is housing costs, which reflect the local market dynamics, particularly in Berkeley.</p>
<p>If these illegal immigrants have established residency in California, have obtained or are in the process of obtaining a legal immigration status, and pay taxes to the state, by all means they deserve to pay only the California tuition. The plaintiffs are just a bunch of crybabies.</p>
<p>let's be clear, under current federal immigration law, it is virtually impossible to obtain legal immigration status whilst here; unless one faces persecution at home, anyone applying for a visa must do it from their home country. But, yes, anyone here is paying taxes, federal, state and local.</p>