Non-Wharton are Second Class ?

<p>This post isn't intended to insult anyone or start a flame war.</p>

<p>I have two friends who do to Penn. One's in CAS; the other is in Wharton.</p>

<p>They both agree that there is an inferiority complex amongst non-Wharton students. Also, that "everyone is trying to transfer, or atleast talks about transfering, to Wharton".</p>

<p>Is this at all true? I understand Wharton is the more prestigious college, but do non-Wharton students harbor animosity/resentment?</p>

<p>I'm asking because I hate schools where there is a sectarian culture.</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

<p>I’ve been doing a lot of research on this, and from what I’ve gathered, there is definitely one. I mean it’s not outright discrimination lol, but apparently there are “wharton only” facilities, resources, events, and recruiting. And, from what I’ve read, yes it seems like many econ majors want to be in Wharton, which is nearly impossible to transfer into. Another CCer/Wharton student posted on here saying his only friends are Wharton students merely because those are the only people he crosses paths with. It really has made me lose interest in CAS, but I still love the idea of PENN (cough Wharton lol).</p>

<p>NYU Stern students have their own wifi, which normal NYU students can’t connect to lol.</p>

<p>^^I think we’ve been talking to different people lol. From what I’ve heard, there really isn’t that distinct of a divide at all.</p>

<p>The inferiority complex only exists because the “Penn” name isn’t widely recognized as much as the “Wharton” name. Not all kids want to transfer. Nursing students mostly are not interested. Many liberal arts majors in the College are not interested either - such as Pre-med, Pre-law, Psychology, Sociology and a number of other foci. College Econ majors and Engineering students make up the majority of transfer/dual degree applicants, simply for the sake of the name recognition. Many College Econ majors do prefer the CAS over Wharton though, let’s get that straight.</p>

<p>If people knew Penn as well as they did Wharton, there wouldn’t be an issue. The brand itself, and not the quality of the education, is what they desire.</p>

<p>Huntsman Hall is the unofficial building for the business school. Many events for non business clubs are held in there, and any Penn student is free to enter the building so all four divisions can be found in there.</p>

<p>There isn’t resentment. The four schools are just the educational pursuits. We all live together and PARTY together. A kid who says he only has Wharton friends is obviously just a little caught up in his own world. The students of the other three undergrad schools aren’t upset with business students, we all thrive in the same environment. </p>

<p>It’s a matter of prestige, not quality. If the “Penn” name carried as much as it should, there wouldn’t be this issue.</p>

<p>Also, to say “Non Wharton are second class” is ridiculous. Outside of the name recognition, we all equally respect other students’ pursuits. </p>

<p>College - Gryfindor
Nursing - Hufflepuff
Engineering - Ravenclaw
Wharton - Slytherin</p>

<p>We can make these jokes because at the end of the day, we are PENN, one united community.</p>

<p>As a Wharton student, I have a tremendous education that can be used for banking and business management, but I have no clue about how to save a man’s life if he goes into a stroke or cardiac arrest. I don’t know a single thing about the strategic implementation of construction and urban planning within a city. This is not to say Wharton isn’t well rounded (40 percent of my classes are non business), but each of the four schools asserts its attention to a general area of scholarship. Each of the four schools specializes in a specific interest whether it be business, engineering, nursing, or liberal arts. </p>

<p>That separation is what gives all Penn students the unique advantage of entering whatever field they decide. Penn is insanely well rounded as a university in terms of both academic career preparation and the extroverted, social nature of the students. We are miles above every other school in terms of the academic focus and preparation undergraduate students are able to receive, as well as the collegiate fun they get to experience while they study here.</p>

<p>PENN might be the perfect university… a social Ivy</p>

<p>There is a large portion of undergrads at the university (probably the majority) who wouldn’t even consider applying/transferring to Wharton because they are perfectly happy with their current field of study.</p>

<p>Penn has as many top-10 and top-20 liberal arts departments as–if not more than–peers like Columbia, Duke, and Brown. Not to mention the top undegraduate Nursing program in the country, and a highly regarded Engineering school with a top-10 bioengineering program. And Penn provides incredible facilities to support those programs (just check out the new Music Building, Singh Nanotechnology Center, and Annenberg Public Policy Center, and soon-to-be-built Neural-Behavioral Sciences Building and Perelman Center for Political Science and Economics, as a few examples). Anyone who thinks that the vast majority of Penn non-Wharton students feel like second-class citizens compared to Wharton students either hasn’t spent enough time–if ANY–as a Penn undergrad, or doesn’t truly understand what Penn and Wharton are all about.</p>

<p>Don’t believe it that non-Wharton are Second Class, you have an entirely strong student body!</p>

<p>Fall 2011- Spring 2012
Student body strength by listing top 800 SAT starting scores of
“Enrolled” freshman class:
(800 is within everyone’s 25-75%) </p>

<p>You may be surprised.</p>

<p>R--------- M---------R+M-------------------------- W R+M+W
735.50 765.50 1500.99 Penn----------------753.88 2254.88
729.72 769.72 1499.43 Cornell------------------------
743.67 753.67 1497.35 Harvard------------ 743.67 2241.02
731.84 759.25 1491.09 Northwestern------ 746.66 2237.75
731.92 735.54 1467.45 Yale---------------- 738.73 2206.18
726.27 740.64 1466.91 Stanford----------- 736.27 2203.18
725.06 740.05 1465.11 Vanderbilt--------- 715.06 2180.16
724.23 734.23 1458.46 Princeton---------- 724.23 2182.69
721.48 731.48 1452.96 Columbia---------- 721.48 2174.43
711.47 741.47 1452.95 Duke--------------- 727.19 2180.14
677.90 744.74 1422.65 MIT----------------- 687.11 2109.76
698.03 718.03 1416.06 Brown-------------- 712.26 2128.32
675.72 695.20 1370.93 Dartmouth------ 695.20 2066.13
654.90 694.90 1349.81 J. Hopkins----- 674.90 2024.71</p>

<p>Also read the second part of post #1 in this thread for explinations:
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1530349-ivy-league-other-top-schools-student-body-academic-strength.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/1530349-ivy-league-other-top-schools-student-body-academic-strength.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>The term “second class citizen” is an exaggeration–no one can seriously take that description literally, but there is a little bit of truth in the idea. I know several students who dropped out of pre-med and made an internal transfer in to Wharton their first year. Others, who applied for dual for the sake of getting the Wharton name in there. Most of the decisions aren’t based on passion or interest–they’re based on prestige. Of course Penn is excellent all around, but perception is in the eye of the student. And for those not fully vested in their major/passions there is slight inferiority and a pull towards the prestige. However, this does not translate in to any form of resentment or animosity. The distinction generally doesn’t go beyond academics (e.g. no purposeful social segregation), and I agree with @AJTracker that if Penn was a more recognized name, and if prestige was not a factor there would pretty much be no inferiority complex and everyone would study what they wanted to.</p>

<p>^ That’s very accurate and insightful analysis. :slight_smile: There’s no denying that the Wharton name is incredibly prestigious and powerful in the business world, and perhaps only rivaled by Harvard in that regard at the undergraduate level. And that enormous prestige can sometimes overshadow the excellence–or even eminence, to use President Gutmann’s favorite word–of Penn’s other undergraduate offerings.</p>

<p>I’ve long believed that Penn could do a MUCH better job of marketing its non-Wharton components–and especially the College–to potential applicants. Penn needs to do a lot more to convey the message that its liberal arts program is as strong as–and in many cases stronger than–the liberal arts programs at Columbia, Brown, Duke, etc. And it needs to strengthen the message that Wharton ADDS TO AND ENHANCES, and doesn’t detract from, the undergraduate liberal arts experience at Penn, providing a dimension of breadth and depth not available at Penn’s peers. Based on many of the comments one sees here on CC, as well as the comparative numbers of applications to Penn and its peers, I don’t think that message is getting out nearly as well as it could or should be (despite my one-man crusade to do so ;)).</p>

<p>^My kid is in Wharton and I wouldn’t want my kid to go there if that was all there was. In fact, my kid wouldn’t want to be there if that was all there was either.</p>

<p>Many kids in Wharton have interests outside of Wharton like music, arts, culture, politics, literature, and many, many other things.</p>

<p>To address “Wharton-only facilities,” yes they are a thing, but it isn’t for some evil reason (well, aside from the fact that Wharton is evil)… it’s just a matter of logistics. The amount of collaboration in the Wharton curriculum makes dedicated resources a necessity for Wharton students. In my experience, I had two group projects in four years at Penn (political science), and one of them was a Wharton class. Meanwhile, my friends in Wharton had at least a few group projects every semester.</p>

<p>When so many classes involve collaboration, you need a lot of space for groups to get together - thus, the GSRs in Huntsman. Yes, only Wharton students can book GSRs, but anybody can “appropriate” a room if it is unused ten minutes past the hour, and any group can kick an individual out of a GSR since those rooms are dedicated explicitly for groups.</p>

<p>Wharton has two buildings - Hunstman and Steinberg-Dietrich. Why? Because it makes sense to have two buildings in close proximity when every Wharton student has a set of core courses that they must take to graduate… why teach the same exact course in five different places when you can keep it all centralized?</p>

<p>Wharton uses WebCafe (at least they did when I was there), a site similar to Blackboard, to manage most of its courses. Why be different? Because WebCafe allows for added collaboration (specifically, booking rooms), which Blackboard neither has nor needs.</p>

<p>As for course experience, every school is different. In the College, you may only count four non-college courses toward your graduation requirements; if you didn’t want to, you would never need to take a course outside of your school. Meanwhile, the other three schools have distribution requirements that require students to take courses in the College. Nursing students generally do their distribution requirements and stick to nursing after that; students in the other three schools (especially Wharton) often wind up getting a dual degree once they do their distribution requirements. Regardless, there is a ton of inter-school interaction academically, and outside of academic stuff, nobody cares what school you’re in.</p>

<p>As for people transferring to Wharton, I know of several people who transferred after freshman year (and many more who applied for dual degrees), and I know of several other people who dropped Wharton to do a College degree. The common thread among them that I noticed wasn’t for “prestige” … I mean, seriously, who really cares? Once you’re at Penn, nobody gives a damn what school you’re in, and that includes most employers. The common thread I noticed about those who wanted in to Wharton was that they wanted money - their thought was that Wharton would set them up for a good banking/consulting job, which it does (though the College does just as good a job!). And the common thread I noticed about those who wanted out of Wharton was that they wanted to explore an array of different disciplines, not focus on finance, statistics, management, operations, etc.</p>