Northeast Environmental Science college tour

College Search & Selection
1

<p>My daughter will be a senior this year and we are planning a three week college tour in the Northeast this summer, but will be considering schools elsewhere. We live in a small community in New Mexico. Because of my employer, we are also counted as California residents. She is doing well, but HYPSM and a few other schools appear out of reach. Our income is about 130k, and we have another daughter two years younger with equivalent skills. My wife is Spanish and she is bilingual with dual citizenship.</p>

<p>Stats (standardized tests taken once so far):
GPA: ~3.95 (UW), ~4.3 (W) rated public school taking hardest possible coarse load
Rank: school doesn’t rank students
SAT I: 650 (M), 680 (CR), 720 (W)
SAT II: 620 (Math II), 680 (Biology)
ACT: 32 (best in Science, Math, and Writing, weakest in English?)</p>

<p>ECs:
Sports: swimming (K-12), horseback riding (10-12), fencing (10, too busy in 11)
Fun: 4H dog training (9-12), ballroom dancing (10, 12), high school choir (11-12), middle school yearbook (7-8), and travel abroad
Job: summer camp counselor “Nature Odyssey” organized by Pajarito Environmental Education Center (PEEC)
Leadership: secretary for the local 4H council (10-12), member PEEC board (11-12)
Unpaid volunteer: leadership positions, local animal shelter</p>

<p>She wants a college with a strong Environmental Sciences/Studies Major. She prefers a school about the size of her high school (~1200 students) to twice as large. She wants a school with a horseback riding club. She prefers a school with a fencing club, on the east coast, and not in a center city. She thinks that a lot of partying will be too much of a distraction, but will want some social life outside of sports clubs.</p>

<p>She went on a spring break school tour with my siblings in Virginia, Maryland, and Pennsylvania. This trip mainly revealed that she and I have trouble judging the fit of a school from the books/web pages. None of the three schools she initially chose, and only one of my five suggested add-ons, enthused her. </p>

<p>Gettysburg college was her favorite: She loved the look of the campus and the combination of a Freshman seminar with housing placement looked like it would get her feeling at home right away. The students seemed close to her level and style. The small tour group was also a plus.</p>

<p>Of the other schools she found that she did not like schools with populations much below 1,000, with a pre-professional student dress, whose students were highly impressed by straight As, where communication between departments/students seemed poor, and where she was the only potential science major in a large tour group.</p>

<p>My current planned tour is as follows:</p>

<p>First week: tour New England
Monday: Colby College, slight reach? (The prettiest town of the Maine LACs)
Tuesday: Dartmouth College, extreme reach (We ought to visit at least one Ivy League school)
Wednesday: Morning: Mount Holyoke College, match (best match of the “five schools”)
Afternoon: Old Sturbridge Village
Thursday: College of the Holy Cross, match (try out Catholic school)
Friday: Morning: Wellesley College, high reach
Afternoon: Brandeis, match (first national university)</p>

<p>Second week relax and enjoy Massachusetts, might visit Wheaton (low match). Final Saturday might take noon tour either of Wesleyan or Trinity then visit Mystic Seaport.</p>

<p>Third week: (seems hectic)
Monday: Morning: Connecticut College, high match (I want her to see a coastal LAC)
Afternoon: tour Hudson River valley
Tuesday: Morning: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, match (the only “technical” school on her list. Has a special visitors program that day)
Afternoon: partial visit with Hamilton College, slight reach (a favorite of hers from its description, but their info session is awkwardly placed: 12:30 only)
Wednesday: Morning Colgate University, slight reach (reads as if it has one of the better Environmental Sciences programs)
Afternoon: SUNY-ESF, safety (the most obvious visit, but only offers tours)
Thursday: Morning: University of Rochester, match (a change from the LACs)
Afternoon: tour Finger Lakes region
Friday: Cornell University (CALS), extreme reach (best Env. Sciences of the schools we’re visiting, but the size and entry requirements make me doubt the worth of this visit. The info session is only in mid-afternoon which complicates the return to Boston.)</p>

<p>Questions I have that CC might answer:
Did we fail to note aspects of any of the schools that don’t match my daughter’s requirements?
Is the schedule too hectic?
Are my assignments of safety/match/reach appropriate?
Am I visiting to many reach schools and not enough safety schools? (FWIW I think Allegheny is impractical to visit but is a good safety for her)
Should I change Dartmouth for the University of Vermont (a safety, but large compared with my daughter’s preferences, and out of the way)?
Should we change Cornell for Bucknell or Lehigh (matches)?
Would Bates or Bowdoin be better visits in Maine?
Should we try to fit in Tufts (far reach)?
What other non-tour schools should we examine? (we are aware of William and Mary, Vanderbilt, Colorado College, and the Claremont Colleges.)
(Note daughter is out of town and it is not clear why she eliminated Clark University. She going to retake the SAT I, and take SAT IIs in literature and French. She may retake the SAT II(Math II).)</p>

2

<p>One thing to keep in mind (I've had to remind myself and s and d when visiting colleges): do not judge a school by the people you meet on a tour. Obviously those students are interested (or at least the parent is) or they wouldn't be on campus, but many will decide not to apply, and of those that do, fewer will be accepted and fewer still will matriculate. We've encountered the same situation where the major d is interested in has actually been 'groaned' at by other students on a tour. The college does indeed offer the major, and there are students enrolled. Sometimes you just find yourself on the wrong tour - luck of the draw. Save those judgments for accepted student re-visits. </p>

<p>For the Maine schools, some would say Bowdoin is in the better town/location, but it is also more competitive. I don't think any of the Maine LACs are easy as far as admissions.</p>

3

<p>I see that you have Allegheny as a saftey. It fits most of your criteria although I don't know if they have horseback riding. She would likely get merit aid to attend. I agree that it would not be easy to visit on this trip but it was one of the first colleges that popped in my head as I read your description. </p>

<p>We did an intense summer college visit tour a few years ago - 10 colleges in 14 days. I will say that visiting 2 schools in a day is a bit much although doable if there are no other options. We are glad we took the trip and it helped my son to sort out schools and decide which ones he wanted to apply to and which he wanted to re-visit if possible. However, I think 10 schools was the most I would want to do. You might think of taking a couple of the high reaches off the list (Wellesly, Dartmouth) or cross off a couple of the schools that are way outside of the paramaters that your daughter says she wants (Cornell, RPI) Just my 2 cents.</p>

4

<p>as a matter of fact, have you visited SUNY Esf? (College of environmental science and forestry) Your stats oust what it is looking for but has a very good program I hear.</p>

5

<p>I'm usually not one to push my school but in this situation I honestly think it would be good to look at. Middlebury has one of the strongest environmental science programs among liberal arts colleges. Although the program's history doesn't matter much now, it actually had the first ES program in the country (founded in 1965). Middlebury recently built a brand new sciences building, Bicentennial Hall, with state-of-the-art science facilities. It's located in west central vermont about 45 minutes south of Burlington (and UVM).</p>

<p>Middlebury is also considered one of the most environmentally friendly schools in the nation and has adopted an initiative to become carbon-neutral by I believe 2016. For your perusal:</p>

<p>General facts about the school:
About</a> Middlebury</p>

<p>Other random quick facts (look about halfway down the page for environmental studies.)
Quick</a> Facts</p>

<p>General facts about the Environmental Studies program:
Environmental</a> Studies</p>

<p>Specific facts about the Environmental Studies program:
<a href="http://www.middlebury.edu/NR/rdonlyres/47A8CD21-9057-460D-90FB-3BEF1AF9C0E4/0/ESfactsheet0708.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.middlebury.edu/NR/rdonlyres/47A8CD21-9057-460D-90FB-3BEF1AF9C0E4/0/ESfactsheet0708.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And directions:
[url=<a href="http://www.middlebury.edu/about/middcampus/directions/%5DDirections%5B/url"&gt;http://www.middlebury.edu/about/middcampus/directions/]Directions[/url&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p>

6

<p>One more thing, I think you are underestimating your daughter's chances a bit. For example, I'd call Colby a match, ConnColl a low match (encroaching on safety territory), Hamilton and Colgate maybe a match to high match. Feel free to check out Dartmouth and Cornell, you never know you might get in (if she likes them that is, don't do it just because they're prestigious).</p>

<p>Last comment I promise, oftentimes, the women's colleges are admissions steals, that is to say, you can get into a 'better' school if it's a women's college than you would otherwise because many people are drawn away because of that. For example, Wellesley (which is more of a low reach than a high reach) has an admissions rate of 36% but the resources and reputation of a school with a sub-20% admissions rate. The same goes for Bryn Mawr, Smith, etc.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

7

<p>I would definitely switch Darthmouth for UVM. I have 3 very smart friends going there next year for environmental science, because it has a great program and good financial aid! It would probably be a safety for her, but it's really important for her to find a safety that she visits and loves. Plus, you sounded like you only wanted Dartmouth for the name (Cornell is an Ivy too!)</p>

<p>Colorado College sounds like it has a great program that would fit her needs. Because of the block scheduling, they take a lot of short trips into the wilderness, perfect for ES.</p>

<p>And I completely disagree with how the poster above me said the ConnCollege should be a safety. Your D's grades are great, but her EC's are nothing special. The summer programs don't really go anywhere, unless she writes about them in her essays, and college apps don't want anything before 9h grade.</p>

8

<p>This is an incredibly ambitious schedule. Good luck remembering half of what you experience. My d had a similar profile and interests as yours, and she visited Tufts, Rochester (where she attends) as well as three or four other schools not on your list. I'd try to get a little more focused before hitting the road.</p>

<p>Keep in mind that she will likely be traveling again after the acceptance letters start rolling in next year.</p>

9

<p>nm parents, Welcome! You certainly have been doing your homework. I would agree that you are somewhat underestimating your daughter’s chances for admission at selective colleges. Her half-URM status and residence in an under-represented state will be big pluses for her. Grades are excellent. ACT is very good. SATs are not as good as they might be, but let’s see how she does on the re-dos.</p>

<p>Extracurriculars could use some focusing. If her major interest is environmental issues she should enhance and amplify this part of her resume in her essays and recommendations. 4H dog training is also an activity that would make a good essay topic and would show leadership :), persistence and progression. It's a point of differentiation.</p>

<p>Most importantly, could you please clarify your financial status? Many of the colleges and universities on your daughter’s list do not offer merit aid, although many are generous with need based aid. Since you are very thorough, you have probably done so already, but please use one of those on-line calculators to make sure that you are reasonably assured that your daughter will be eligible for enough need based aid to make these schools doable for her.</p>

<p>The more remotely located colleges in New England would definitely consider your daughter a person of interest. Although the last thing you need is another school on the the list, I would encourage her to visit Williams as well as they offer many of the points on your daughter’s wishlist and aggressively recruit high achieving Hispanics. </p>

<p>Sciences, including environmental science, are excellent. Extraordinarily beautiful natural surroundings, active outdoorsy kids. Comprehensive eco programs. Horseback riding and fencing are both available as club sports. If she is willing or able to swim competitively more the better.</p>

<p>I would also agree with the above posters who recommend Bowdoin and Middlebury and I would try to get to Wesleyan and Wheaton. So what to cross off?</p>

<p>Your daughter’s list covers a lot of variety as to “character.” I would rate this more highly than any other factor, e.g. size or location. Using Gettysburg and Hamilton as a rough guidelines for the kind of schools she’s attracted to, then I would eliminate Wellesley, Brandeis, Rensselaer, Trinity maybe Tufts and Dartmouth.</p>

10

<p>Sweet, I live in Sturbridge.</p>

<p>Even though they're outside of your size requirement, Northeastern and UVM both have good Environmental Science programs, and your daughter would probably be accepted into UVM's honors program. I visited Brandeis myself and was not at all impressed. The campus was in horrible shape, and no matter what they say, you will feel like an outsider if you are not Jewish.</p>

11

<p>Holy Cross is a good school and does have a beautiful campus, however, it is in Worcester. Trust me, you do not want to go to school in Worcester.</p>

12

<p>You should check out Stonybrook, particularly the Hamptons Campus. Also, ESF is kind of a hole in the wall. The programs are great, but the lifestyle -- not so much.</p>

13

<p>Zoosermom- I thought the ESF kids were fully integrated into the Syracuse U student life- including living in SU dorms, food service, being able to take classes at SU in addition to the ESF curriculum. Please correct me if I am wrong as I have mentioned the ESF program to a number of my friends.</p>

14

<p>Marny, my daughter went there a couple of times and was so unimpressed. She was told straight out by one tour guide that the ESF students are treated as second-class citizens by the Syracuse folks. She asked about that at the second visit and it was tacitly confirmed. She just absolutely hated the campus and everything about the lifestyle.</p>

15

<p>I was never a big fan of SU. It's just one of those schools where I could not justify paying the tuition rate when you had SUNY's like Binghamton -Buffalo or Stony Brook to choose from. Generally, I do not see SU as being academically stronger than our SUNY's unless (maybe) you were going to SU for Communication.<br>
As the ESF program is apart of SUNY, the OOS tuition is around $11,000. So if one could put up with alot of NY suburban kids from LI and Westchester, it is still a program to check out. I can understand the SU atmosphere may not be for everyone and that includes my kids too. </p>

<p>and I'll agree, OP should check out the environmental science program at StonyBrook-Southhampton campus.</p>

16

<h1>3 Shennie</h1>

<p>It would have been hard for us to miss Allegheny College, it has been one of the colleges that has sent us a lot of snail mail. Although our daughter's delay in taking the standardized tests has at least postponed the deluge that others have reported, we have received several mailings from Allegheny, Norwich, Vanderbilt, and Barnard, along with isolated mailings from others. (I don't think we have gotten anything from WUSTL.) And, yes, Allegheny has both horseback riding and fencing. Whether it maintains them depends on the students who succeed the ones who started it. Several schools, Harvard comes to mind, have links to equestrian clubs that appear to have been inactive for several years. We have a legitimate excuse for not applying to Harvard beyond it being totally out of reach.</p>

<p>As to the intensity of the tour, it was obvious from my daughter's comments on her spring tour that persistently seeing two schools a day (she saw eight in five days) was too much. I am trying to keep the number down, but I find it difficult controlling my compulsive tendencies.</p>

17

<p>I wouldn't knock Cornell off your list. They have several environmentally-orientated majors- Natural Resources, Science of Natural and Environmental Systems, Earth and Atmosphere Sciences, Environmental Engineering, Environmental Economics, Sustainable Agriculture.... You can apply to CALS as a an "environmental undecided"</p>

<p>Don't be afraid of Cornell's size. Your introductory classes will be intense, but upper level classes are small and collaborative. In the end, you'll be grateful for the mix. The departments, especially Natural Resources, are very laid back and tight-knit- They'll be like your family, where you know everyone in your major and all the professors.</p>

<p>Cornell's size is its biggest advantage. They offer the more advanced classes regularly. For example, at a small school, they may offer a few ecology courses, some of them every other year. At a larger school, they'll offer courses in forest ecology, wetlands ecology, stream ecology, limnology, global ecology, population ecology.....</p>

<p>Cornell's size also means more diversity, in courses, people, and social life. You can't stereotype a Cornell kid, there's jocks, nerds, hippies, frat brothers and sorority girls, farmers, intellectuals abound. Even if half the students are in frats, there are still 6000 kids that aren't, and most of them are finding other ways for have fun- music, the outing club, billions of other clubs. </p>

<p>I wouldn't let your stats stop you from applying, I think they are perfectly in reach.</p>

<p>Plus, Cornell beats out any other college in natural beauty, hands down.</p>

18

<p>Can I piggyback on this thread and ask for any other good Natural Resources / Environmental Science schools, perhaps in Minnesota, California, or the Pacific Northwest? (I'll definitely be applying to Cornell as well.)</p>

19

<p>I second the recommendation to avoid going to school in Worcester, MA, if you can.</p>

20

<p>Naturally-</p>

<p>UC Berkeley, UC Davis, Lewis and Clark come to mind. Though I'm unfamiliar with that part of the county. Usually any land-grant college is a safe bet.</p>