Northeast Environmental Science college tour

College Search & Selection
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<p>This is a post from another thread.</p>

<p>America's Best Colleges 2007</p>

<p>
[quote]
U.S. NEWS 2007 Best Undergraduate Environmental Engineering Programs among schools whose highest degree is a PhD:</p>

<p>1 Stanford University (CA)
2 Massachusetts Inst. of Technology
3 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
....Johns Hopkins University (MD)
5 U. of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
6 University of Texas–Austin
....University of California–Berkeley
8 California Institute of Technology
9 Cornell University (NY)
10 University of Florida
11 Virginia Tech
....Northwestern University (IL)
13 Carnegie Mellon University (PA)
....Duke University (NC)
15 Rice University (TX)
....Pennsylvania State U.–University Park
....Univ. of Wisconsin–Madison
18 Univ. of California–Los Angeles
....Yale University (CT)<br>

[/quote]
</p>

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<h1>61 Phead128</h1>

<p>Note that these are Environmental Engineering programs, not Environmental Science/Studies. The details of the distinction are not clear to me. One of the complications in our search has been that while the US News book we have identifies schools with programs in many areas such as Environmental Engineering, is does not identify Environmental Science/Studies programs. Note that the list is also only of schools with PhD programs. No LACs and it is not clear to me whether the ranking is of the undergraduate or of the PhD programs at those schools.</p>

<p>The last time I looked at Yale I was able to easily find their graduate program, but not their undergraduate program. This time I can easily find the undergraduate program.</p>

<p>In terms of my daughters preferences (but not those of other posters to this thread) we have opinions about some of the schools</p>

<p>Stanford, JHU, and Berkeley lack some of her sports requirements (I think all lack equestrian teams)</p>

<p>I forget whether we looked at Virginia Tech</p>

<p>I remember Carnegie Mellon's programs looking good when we planned the mid-Atlantic tour, but we haven't looked at it since we decided it was to far a drive.</p>

<p>She is not quite a big enough nerd to fit in at CalTech</p>

<p>She does not want to be in Los Angeles, or Texas (though I find Rice tempting)</p>

<p>In personality she might fit in at MIT. She is rather driven, quirky and somewhat nerdy, but the academic requirements, particularly in math, are more than daunting and right now we consider it out of reach.</p>

<p>Penn State (and most of the other state universities) is dauntingly large</p>

<p>She really wishes we didn't consider Yale out of reach.</p>

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<p>Now she wants an equestrian team, too?! </p>

<p>Cornell. No doubt.</p>

<p>Science</a> of Natural and Environmental Systems, Cornell University</p>

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<p>From first post in the thread.</p>

<p>"She wants a college with a strong Environmental Sciences/Studies Major. She prefers a school about the size of her high school (~1200 students) to twice as large. She wants a school with a horseback riding club. She prefers a school with a fencing club, on the east coast, and not in a center city. She thinks that a lot of partying will be too much of a distraction, but will want some social life outside of sports clubs."</p>

<p>I said team, but a club will do.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Note that the list is also only of schools with PhD programs. No LACs and it is not clear to me whether the ranking is of the undergraduate or of the PhD programs at those schools.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It is a ranking of best undergraduate schools whose highest degrees is a pHD. So its an undergraduate ranking. Since LACs do not offer graduate programs, they are not ranked within this list. Srry.</p>

<p>The only difference between Environmental Science and Environmental Engineering is that EE is more practical in that its the application of science and engineering principles to improve the environment.</p>

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<p>Environmental Science, Enivronmental Studies, and Environmental Engineering are all slightly different. And each are different at different schools. An environmental science degree will emphasize different areas depending on how it evolved in the college. In a place like Johns Hopkins or Columbia, where their environmental programs evolved out of their geology departments, the emphasis will be more physical-science based, or you're at least be taking some geology and/or hydrology courses. At Cornell, or possibly Yale, where the departments evolved out of their forestry schools and ecology departments, (SUNY ESF used to be at Cornell), the major will be more orientated to ecology/life sciences. When LAC's got on the environmental boat in the 1970's, they emphasized more humanity based courses, with courses like, "The environmental history of Vermont" (hence the environmental Studies instead of science). Environmental engineering is a better track if you're looking into environmental consulting, where all you do is determine the rates of sewage flow underground and that kind of exciting stuff. Of course there's over lap in colleges/majors, but the "feel" may be different. </p>

<p>And as another note, if she's interested in Animal Science, Cornell is also the top in that. And the business program, in CALS, is also great. It comes out of Applied Economics Dept, which has specializations in environmental and resource economics.</p>

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<p>^^ Thanks EnviroGuy. Very informative post.</p>

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<p>We leave on our tour in two days and this may be my last post for a while. Thanks for all the help. FWIW when I saw that her priorities included "medieval/renaissance studies, ancient history/classics" I thought Chicago. Checked, but no equestrian. But seeing Chicago made me wonder why we aren't visiting NYC when we are in the Northeast, which made me recheck Barnard which has sent us a lot of mail. Outside of being in a city it looks like a great match for her, so we will spend two nights in NYC with a half day visit to Barnard. D1 and D2 have only been to NYC with my siblings and think it is boring. I think the medieval enthusiast will love the Cloisters, and one of Natural History Museum, Bronx Zoo, Botanical Gardens, or the Metropolitan Museum. My plans are</p>

<p>First week:
Monday: Colby
Tuesday: Dartmouth
Wednesday: UVM
Thursday: Mount Holyoke
Friday: afternoon, Wellesley, may take Holy Cross tour in the morning
Saturday: if not tired Williams</p>

<p>Second week: may take one day to visit one of Brown, Tufts, Brandeis, Wheaton</p>

<p>Third week: may take tour at one of Wesleyan, Trinity, Yale in drive to NYC
Monday: Barnard
Tuesday: RIP
Wednesday: Hamilton and SUNY-ESF
Thursday: Cornell
Friday: Connecticut College or slightly extend Cornell visit</p>

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<p>Tuesday: RIP
should be
Tuesday: RPI</p>

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<p>For both nmparents and enviromom, personally I think your kids have great chances at any of the colleges on their lists and that a few more reaches wouldn't be out of order. (Not that it much matters what I think, of course). Especially at LACs and more personalized medium sized colleges, I believe that GPA, rank, ec's and life experiences can outweigh scores. </p>

<p>Good luck and let us know how they do.
PS to nmparents, I hope you don't feel like "RIP" is appropriate by the third week. :) You'll have a great time, I'm sure.</p>

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<p>Good idea to skip Bard. My daughter was quite taken by Wellesley and Wesleyan . . . until she saw Bard. We spent a day at Wesleyan. She spent a night at Wellesley by invitation after acceptance and hated it. I suggested we visit Bard on the way home from Wellesley, for the third time, to be sure. She found more to like each time. She was also accepted at two top-ten public U's (not too big), but Bard was still her first choice. She can't wait to go back for her second year. Skip it or risk falling her falling in love. </p>

<p>(Didn't notice an equestrian activity, but there is fencing . . . two-hundred-year-old rock walls, too!) ;)</p>

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<p>The first college I thought of was Earlham College. Small (1200) students. Great horseback riding program ( Only program in the entire US completly run by students) They have their own stable and indoor and outdoor riding ring on campus. The only thing that might not fit your D. is that it is not in the Northeast. It is in Indiana, right over the Ohio border. Also has a small fencing club.</p>

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<p>We have returned. FWIW we discovered near the beginning of the tour that D1's interest in animal science was because the GC has been suggesting she consider becoming a veterinarian and she is taking the suggestion seriously. We of course had noted the same interest and potential career, but until at least half a year ago the frequency of euthanasias involved with the job had killed her interest. We will see how this develops.</p>

<p>In the end I dropped Holy Cross (difficult to fit between Mount Holyoke and Wellesley), and Barnard (difficult to justify enduring NYC traffic for a day and a half visit). We ended up not visiting any colleges in the week off. Too much fun. We did have official visits to twelve schools in this order
Mon. July 21, Colby College
Tue. July 22, Dartmouth
Wed. July 23, UVM
Thu. July 24, Mount Holyoke
Fri. July 25, Wellesley
Mon. Aug. 4, Connecticut College
Tue. Aug. 5, RPI
Wed. Aug. 6, Hamilton then Colgate
Thu. Aug. 7, Cornell
Fri. Aug. 8, SUNY-ESF
Sat. Aug. 9, Williams</p>

<p>As we expected Mount Holyoke was the school she thinks she would most enjoy attending. Great horseback riding, very good biology, and a potential SCA member has to love the Gothic architecture. Colby, Wellesley, Gettysburg, and perhaps Hamilton and Sweet Briar trail in this category, but have not been eliminated.</p>

<p>She was not as intimidated by the size of Cornell as we expected, and it has become her preferred practical school. If she is accepted we will have to send her on an in session visit to see how she reacts to the crowds. UVM, SUNY-ESF and perhaps RPI (liked the school, but we had trouble seeing her there) remain on the list of practical schools. I can post more on SUNY-ESF if there is interest.</p>

<p>We eliminated Dartmouth (the D plan seemed awkward, not enough trees on the landscape, too much Greek enthusiasm, too much vainglory (we're Ivy League and great), and too much our networking will get you jobs (she'd prefer to get them on her own merits)), Connecticut College (just didn't seem to connect), Colgate (the layout felt awkward perhaps because of the hills, too much we're the LAC equivalent of Dartmouth), and Williams (we have too many reaches, the concentrations are the equivalent of minors, and we need some (arbitrary) criteria to cut down on our options).</p>

<p>We visited Worcester on a Saturday to see the Higgins Armory (when I noticed its existence it became her must see attraction). We then did a brief tour of the town and drive past of the colleges. On return we double checked her college rankings. Apparently Holy cross had been moved down because it doesn't have fencing. However it does have equestrian and Kendo (Japanese/Korean fencing) clubs, perhaps the best classical studies department in the country, an excellent medieval studies program, an environmental sciences program that reads well, and a biology department particularly good at pre-med (=> good pre-vet?). It has therefore moved up in her list.</p>

<p>Given how much she liked Colby she is also looking at Bates.</p>

<p>I hope her GC can get her to eliminate more schools.</p>

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<p>That's a lot of Upstate New York and New England. I'm surprised you didn't check out Middlebury and Brown while you were at it.</p>

<p>Cornell does have crowds, but the environmentally-inclined majors have developed a pretty great niche on campus.</p>

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<p>As noted earlier in the thread, every time I suggested Middlebury D1 has rejected it, I think because it doesn't have some of the alternative majors/minors she is interested in. No animal science, business, or medieval studies, and the classical studies is very language oriented while she's more interested in the sociology, archeology, and history of the classical era.</p>

<p>Brown was on her list, but lower on the list than most of the schools we visited, and awkwardly placed for visiting on the way to or from the higher priority schools. (The only school we visited that had comparable rating to Brown, was Colgate, which was a very easy visit on the way between Hamilton and Cornell). Part of the downgrading I think was because both equestrian and fencing are varsity sports and she thought it would be difficult to to get on a varsity fencing team with just one year of weekly YMCA fencing classes. The classical studies are also very language oriented, which would have also lowered her ranking, but the medieval studies option looks good. (FWIW Brown's web page is very different from most schools. I seem to have to go to admissions and not academics to find out course and major information.)</p>

<p>My original plan had been to visit one or two schools during the week off between New England and New York, but we just enjoyed the time off (at Cape Cod) too much. The list of optional school(s) included Brown, Brandeis, Tufts, and Wheaton. The specific school(s) we would have visited would have depended on whether we wanted to see a reach or match school or visit Providence or Boston after the school visit.</p>