This discussion was created from comments split from: Please explain how majors work?.
My kid just got accepted to and is trying to decide between Northeastern University for chemical engineering or Washington and Lee which gives you a degree in Chemical engineering as well.
Couple things: Yes, totally two different schools. City vs not. 13k vs less than 2k student undergrad. Abet vs not. Lac vs not. Though i just spoke to head guy from case western who claims that’s not as important as it seems since very few, especially in chemical engineering are sitting for their license. More for civil engineering since they have to sign off on buildings, bridges, etc. Think nyc permits was brought up to me.
As for rankings W&L seems to be very high, but that would appear to be for all degrees and not just engineering. Northeastern is a hot school right now because of ranking rise and co-ops but that’s a 5 year commitment with the 3 co-ops.
Lastly, northeastern is minimum 75k more than W&L if you times the freshman year by 4, but I know that’s a no no and it will probably be more. Northeastern has risen a full percentage point more each year than W&L and then the origination fees on loans will be more. Things most people don’t think about. Perhaps i’m over analytical here. Lol.
So in closing I’m in a battle with the wife. Who isn’t. Lol! She is pushing northeastern, I’m leaning towards the LAC with the mind set of rankings, huge alumni connections, average salary after graduation and of course 75k difference that can be applied to grad school or just not over my kids head. Pushing close to 200k at NE without using co-op money towards loans. I am also aware of the amount of students who change their major. It’s my kids choice, but the majority of the cost is going to be on my kid.
Any thoughts would be helpful. Tks.
@Furina7 - Is WL ABET accredited? Even if one isn’t going to obtain a PE, accreditation is essential.
No, the answer given was we could but then we are confined greatly in what and how we teach. I was also just informed that cal-tech and stanford have dropped the abet accreditation for the same reason
Caltech & Stanford Chemical engineering to forego ABET accreditation to give students more freedom in their curriculum.
So how does this come into your arguments. Are students from these two engineering powerhouses screwed. I don’t know. I’m not an engineer.
I read MIT is also thinking of leaving Abet accreditation too.
Here is the info about Stanford:
But really @Furina7 this is highjacking this thread.
The OP to this thread is not considering the schools you are naming at all.
Ok, maybe I’m mistaken about this thread talking about lac’s in engineering and abet accreditation, so I don’t mean to hijack anything, but the fact remains both stanford and Caltech have voted to leave abet. Numerous articles on this in a Google search. I respect your and the other guy you were going back in forth with opinions so thanks for your imput.
W&L offers majors in physics-engineering and chemistry-engineering, neither of which is ABET accredited. The limited number of engineering courses appear to be mostly mechanical emphasis.
http://catalog.wlu.edu/content.php?catoid=9&navoid=593
Does he want a career in chemical engineering? If so, does he have admission to any less expensive schools than Northeastern? What did you promise him about parent contribution to college costs before application season?
Or does he want a career on Wall Street or something like that but with some general knowledge of engineering? That seems to be what the W&L engineering majors fit better for.
The W&L engineering situation is not really like that of Stanford, Caltech, and whatever reputably-top-end engineering schools decided that ABET accreditation was no longer worthwhile for some majors.
Thank you, your reply was helpful and I marked it as such. My kid did get into suny Binghamton, clarkson, case western, umd engineering and honors colllege. Binghamton was the only one cheaper than W&L which was surprising. She unfortunately has no interest in them. Just came back from accepted students day at Case western reserve. Did not fit for her. She likes engineering, but is practical when it comes to students changing their minds, failure rates, etc etc. She is President of her wise group in high school. Working with TA “doctorial” at Suny Stonybrook U in a molecular engineering project.
We spoke to W&L engineering dept at length. Met some of their graduating seniors. One is going to be employed as a chemical engineer, one going to be a engineer for dept of defense, one going to law school. They are getting jobs or going onto grad school but their class size is very small compared to a Northeastern Something she does consider in the future. The degree you leave with does say b.s. in chemical engineering. They also have a integrated engineering degree with a concentration. Head guy claims they get all the same core courses like fluid mechanics to name one.
She knew going in she wouldn’t get much help from us financially. She is the first of 5 kids to go to college. Even if I can pull off 10k a year for all 5 I’m in for 200k. She knows that. We never mis-lead her about that. Northeastern and W&L for better or worse are her two top choices after getting wait listed at Cornell University and washington u. In St louis. I had her apply to alot of schools and I paid for a lot of applications, fasa, css, test scores etc etc fees. We were hoping for better merit aid. W&L came through the most. She’s also a bit of an intellectual who wants to be challanged by her peers.
I’m told to forget about cost. Forget about overall rankings. It’s what makes her happy. What is best fit. But, that’s not easy as a father and I would hate to see her either swarmed in debt or the other unable to get a job in engineering because of the school she went too.
She wants to join a sorority? At W&L, about three quarters of students join sororities and fraternities.
You cannot forget about cost, because whatever you spend on her will set a precedent for the next four kids. You need to know the amount that you can spend on her college and make an implicit promise to spend that much on each other kid’s college without needing cosigned student loans, parent loans, or compromising your retirement. Determine that first to see which colleges can be considered (if you did that last fall before applications, then you can now remove all which exceed that amount).
Binghamton has several ABET accredited engineering majors, but not chemical. How do costs compare with the others?
I would add to keep in mind that while your kid is on coop at Northeastern you will not be paying tuition and they will be earning money. And I think engineering coops earn a decent hourly wage. I know some people who graduated a few years ago who were able to pay their rent and food expenses for the entire year with what they earned during their coop (I think they were mechanical engineering). You could probably ask Northeastern engineering about average coop wages, but that might mitigate the cost difference a little bit for later years.
What type of environment does your student want? Large school in a major city versus small school in a somewhat remote small city?
The answer is W&L - no school is worth the extra $75K in debt for your child.
Your right. My kid believes she is paying all. I’m fighting with wife on that since she left at 18. Emancipated herself and paid for community college and then her bachelor’s by herself. I joined the national guard to pay for mine. I would like to give 5 to 10k per year per kid as long as I can keep working and ot is available. W &L is about 16K more then Binghamton over 4 years. She received a decent grant from W&L. None from Binghamton and very little from northeastern. As for sorority she realizes its a good chance she would join if she went here, but probably not at northeastern.
I can’t see all these stem and engineering students from LAC college non abet programs jobless and or unable to get into grad schools for engineering. Is the 90k I factor with loan origination fees, without even factoring accrued interest worth that much to go to northeastern?
Yes I’m aware of the co-op advantage. Mainly experience and connections to company you are doing co-op with. The flip side to that is you are going 5 years with a trimester schedule to help pay down costs. Essentially working 18 months at 18 to 25 an hour depending on the company. Your still giving northeastern 75 plus k more than W&L. Is that really just PARTLY a marketing ploy of Northeastern? I’m aware I can be a little over analytical, but I haven’t had a credit card balance at the end of the month since 1996 because of it. Lol. I think you get my delima.
At first city/urban like Boston, but after visiting Case Western she feels she will do fine in either environment. During overnight stay most students told her they rarely go off campus for work/study load reasons, lack of interest, money, or can’t get into bars till 21 so go to parties instead. My daughter isn’t a parties girl anyway, but she feels she may not have the opportunity to make the most of a urban environment.
An undergraduate student can only borrow $5,500 first year, increasing slightly in later years, without a cosigner (and if you do not have the money, you do not want to cosign). Realistic earning potential for summer and part time school year work is usually estimated as $5,000 or less per year.
Are any of the colleges’ net prices under about $10,000 per year (which she may be able to cover on her own), or $20,000 per year (if you can contribute $10,000 per year)?
Kiddie, for the life of me I can’t see why my wife is pushing for northeastern and in the same breath says she’s not paying anything for her to go. She knows thats not happening, but It’s been ugly in my household to say the least. Also my daughter was just offered by W&L to apply for the bonner leaders program. I guess you get money for doing a minimum 280 hours of community service hours per semester as a way to defer more of your college costs. Maybe to much though while studying engineering.
My wife and I agreed to cosign her parent plus loans. She can’t do it without that at any school but community college. Yes, I’m on the hook if she defaults. I don’t believe she will. Also pushing her to go for RA job at school. She has her cit training and is a camp counselor for a sleep away camp that should give her good experience over others when it comes to selection process. I hope. Lol. That could eliminate up to 50k over 3 years if she gets it in her sophomore year.