Northeastern vs UCL (London) vs UCLA

College Search & Selection
1

Hi everyone! I was wondering if you could give me advice on choosing between UCL, Northeastern and UCLA.

I applied for CS, and I’m really interested in AI and Machine Learning. I’d like to do later a Master’s in a really prestigious school in the US so that coud also be a deciding factor.

I’ll explain what I think about the 3 schools.

NEU:
-honors program and 20k/year scholarship
-seem to be good in CS (have their own CS building)
-coop program!
-Boston → very cool city, opportunities, companies
-for some reason, NEU’s ranking is not that good but the school seems amazing
-honestly i love this school, but scared that because the ranking isnt good I won’t have great opportunities later on compared to the other 2 schools
-easy to talk with teachers, they’ll remember u
-private schools, not so many students, tight community

UCL:
-good ranking and reputation
-seem good too in CS
-for some reason they give offers to sooooo many people
-not sure they are good for getting a masters in the us compared to others unis in the US
-no sense of community
-barely any bonding with teachers

UCLA:
-(I’m on the waitlist and I know the chances are slim but just in case)
-really far away from where i live
-good ranking and reputation
-soooo many students
-don’t know if it is worth it when i have others good unis closer to my family
-apparently CS lessons are very very theoretical with almost no practical
-LA next to SF and Silicon Valley
-I heard from cali have an advantage for internships and stuff like that?
-barely any bonding with teachers bcuz too many students

thanks for your help!

2

What would your debt be for each school? Are you in-state California and do you have another UC–perhaps one closer to home? Or another in-state school? I’m concerned about COVID and whether you will spend your (very expensive) first semester at home. Northeastern to my mind keeps its prices rather high because it knows the students factor in the coops. Your first semester would be at home possibly. … I’m not sure what is the best choice for you but perhaps you can defer your first semester and wait out this virus, or even a year.

3

for the student debt, no idea. I’m out of state (I actually live in London). However, I don’t really mind travelling and going somewhere else. Hopefully the COVID situation won’t be an obstacle and I really hope to attend uni in fall 2020. I just have no idea where to go.

4

Start with calculating price/loan debt for each - you should 100% know that before selecting any school.

For context, why grad school? Are you looking to go all the way to a Ph.D.?

This may be helpful if you’re research-focused: http://csrankings.org/#/index?ai&vision&mlmining&nlp&ir&world

It sounds like you’re a bit too rankings focused generally, especially given that rankings in CS both don’t always match overall rankings and aren’t that important for industry anyways. Northeastern will offer plenty of opportunities, especially for CS in the US. Ranking methodologies vary but it’s also worth noting that Northeastern has changed a good deal in the past 30 years so some rankings are still catching up or using lagging metrics. If you look at things like postgrad employment or current research levels in its stronger fields, you’ll see these are up there.

While there are differences, this feels like exaggerating on both ends. Northeastern isn’t state-school sized but it’s not exactly a small tight-knit community either at 18K total undergrads. UCL won’t be as personal as a US college generally but professors still are people and many will care about their students at a personal level no matter the country.

5

Maybe not Ph.D, but I’ve heard that a Masters degree is almost essential for certain jobs, and that it is more valued than a Bachelor’s degree. Also, I really love CS, so the more CS I do the better. I really want to expand my knowledge and experience in this field as much as possible before getting a job.

Still confused because some say rankings don’t matter and others says it does haha.

Anyways thanks for the help

1 Like
6

@slimslamsloum

Speaking as someone with a Masters in CS, this isn’t true at all in my experience, though it may hold slightly more with AI/ML. Still, those types of positions will likely prefer Ph.D.'s anyways, so it may be worth going for a full Ph.D. at that point if you’re looking to be at the cutting edge of the AI/ML field.

Many students coming from international undergrad schools often do a graduate degree in the US to get a known name on their resume, but that is not the same thing at all if you’re going to a top CS school in undergrad and a masters would typically not return much on investment. CS grad school is typically good if you plan to get deep into research but not for industry reasons typically. Masters programs are often treated as less prestigious and more of a cash cow for universities these days actually precisely because of the demand of undergrads from around the world that want to work in the US.

This 100% sounds like a good reason to do grad school, and you’ve got time to decide of course.

You get varied answers here I suspect because the answer varies. For top level research rankings mean a lot more. For industry, it’s all about ability and experience and very little to do with the name of a school. That said, top schools can help you start off your career on the right foot with connections, and there is also the question of the value of teaching at top schools versus not. Muddying that water though is not all top research schools offer anything unique teachingwise in a somewhat standardized subject.

IMO what it comes down to is that there is, of course, some value in going to a better CS school, but rankings need to be looked at with a lot of nuance and knowledge that most searchers simply don’t have, and even then, the overall value of rankings is much less than a field like say business, law, or “softer” fields where the quality of programs can produce significantly different skillsets in graduates.

7

So would you consider NEU / UCL as “top CS schools in undergrad”?

I agree with what you’re saying, but I think I’d still want to do a Masters (definitely don’t know atm about a PhD) just for the sake of being better in CS, doing more research and learning more. Especially in the field of AI/ML, I want to work a lot so maybe a Masters could be better. I’m also really interested in research. But as you said i have time to decide.

Also as i suppose you studied at NEU, is it realistic to aim for the top top grad schools if i attend NEU as an undergrad?

I get what you’re saying, and I know rankings don’t matter that much, but from the point of view of an applicant we really don’t have much info at all about unis in general (which is probably why everyone is so stressed with the rankings).

Also, where did you do your Masters in CS?

1 Like
8

Northeastern is known but “top” depends on how selective you’re being. It’s a T25 but most would not say it’s a T5. I think 10-20 is a fair range for it. UCL isn’t really known in the CS world, though it’s not a bad program by any means. It just doesn’t have a name in industry, at least in the states, and probably wouldn’t come up much in a conversation of the top 25 schools for CS.

Absolutely for either of these, it will be about your grades regardless of where you go and then your research. As you can see here, Northeastern is within the top 30 in the world for AI/ML and top 20 in the US for research output.

http://csrankings.org/#/index?ai&vision&mlmining&nlp&ir&world
http://csrankings.org/#/index?ai&vision&mlmining&nlp&ir

UCLA has a bit more but a waitlist isn’t a real option.

UCL comes in at #60 in the world which is solid as well.

Grad school admissions here between quality options are not going to come down to undergrad school source.

Makes perfect sense! The big secret? Rankings generally split hairs and educational quality is quite consistent between a good number of top schools. People want things to be as easy as “x is better” but typically it’s much more about fit factors with schools even close to the same ranking.

I did a combined BS/MS program at Northeastern, mostly because I could do it for free between scholarship and aid. While I enjoyed it at a personal level, I wouldn’t have paid for it if I had to and it doesn’t mean anything really in industry. I suspect many of my coworkers don’t even know I have it to give you an idea of how important it is.

9

My son is finishing up his junior year at UCLA as a CS major. He is home since this quarter has gone online. So, I asked him if he can respond to this thread with what he knows and experienced. This is just his opinion and I hope it helps. Here is my son’s opinion:

Here are some thoughts about the different programs that you’ve mentioned:

NEU:
A scholarship is always helpful and could benefit in several ways, but there are some pros and cons that you should consider about NEU. NEU’s CS program is spectacular! Their co-op program is extremely useful in getting internships and eventually a job. I have a friend who graduated CS at NEU who really enjoyed the city and the co-op program as well. Some cons are that it’s not a very prestigious university, and the weather is not as great as California. While their co-op program is coveted and extremely useful, if your goal is to do a Master’s, and you want to be in a prestigious school, NEU may not be for you.

UCL:
While UCL is a good school, they are not as good for getting internships in the US. The internships in London don’t pay as much. If you are going to school here in the US, companies are more likely to fly you out to their headquarters for an interview. That will give you an advantage when looking for internships with companies in the US.

UCLA:
UCLA’s CS program is the real deal! We have world-renowned professors, great CS organizations, a VC fund, research opportunities, etc. I have tons of friends with crazy six-figure offers before graduation, and a lot of companies recruit here. Here’s another difference to think about. You say that UCLA’s classes are really theoretical and less practical than the traditionally ‘top’ schools. This is true, but let me tell you why this is an advantage. A lot of schools will teach you new, practical skills that you can use in industry. This is very useful, but I would say it’s less sustainable for a couple of reasons.

⁠Theoretical classes are important to build fundamentals. Trust me, you won’t be learning theory anywhere else! You’ll only be in undergrad once and now is your chance to learn theory to build really solid fundamentals, especially if you’re looking to get a Master’s.

⁠Practical skills are constantly changing. New languages, new frameworks, new tech! These are always updated and therefore not as sustainable. A practical skill right now may not be used in several years. It’s quite a waste of your education if you only learn skills that’ll be useless in a couple of years.

⁠You can learn practical skills from a myriad of opportunities. I’ve learned all my practical skills from internships, clubs, and online tutorials. ** that said, there are plenty of new classes with practical skills that you can take for electives now at UCLA! (distributed systems in Go, web development, machine learning, artificial intelligence etc.)

UCLA is recruited by all the top companies. I’ve personally interned with companies such as Honda R&D and Bloomberg LP, and they’ve both mentioned their admiration for UCLA’s focus on theory. Many companies believe that they can teach you practical skills. Additionally, no company looks at the classes you’ve taken in order to gauge your skill. They look at your experience in the workplace as well as your personal projects.

If your goal is to get a Master’s in Computer Science, here’s a really amazing opportunity! UCLA has a program that automatically admits you into their Master’s program for undergraduate CS students if you have above a 3.5 GPA that’ll only take one year more or less (Exceptional Student Admissions Program). This is a fantastic opportunity that I actually plan to take advantage of. ESAP is available for all UCLA engineering students in their majors.

While it’s true that there are many students in classes, I have had many good bonds with Professors as not as many students go to office hours (quite surprising). Every time I go to office hours, it’s usually 0-7 students. It is not that difficult to get to know the professors well.

Anyway, here’s why I chose UCLA over other schools and I do not regret it for a second:

• ⁠UCLA’s quality of life is really amazing! Practically everyone here at UCLA seems very satisfied and happy with their decision to come here.

• ⁠UCLA students are desirable! This is what several companies recruiting have told me personally.

• ⁠Other schools seem to be more focused on keeping up with the latest hot trends as opposed to sticking with the fundamentals.

You wouldn’t have too much trouble getting a top tech firm as they love UCLA students a lot as well. I know lots of people who are going to FAANG.

I hope this helps!

10

@Heyryan227

Thank you so much for the advice!

I mean UCLA is just so far away from where I live. If it were Berkeley I wouldn’t have hesitated but I didn’t know anything about CS at UCLA. Do you think it is worth going this far? Knowing I have NEU and UCL?

Also since you went to UCLA, how is the international community at UCLA? I barely know anyone in the US, and I heard NEU has many international students for ex. Are international students coming from other countries well integrated?

So you think going to NEU would be an impediment for later on doing a really good Masters? Why would that be the case?

11

@PengsPhils

Thanks for your help!!

12

This is simply just not true. Masters admissions aren’t run on undergrad prestige, they are run on GPA + test scores and if you’re going for Ph.D., mostly research, where Northeastern will offer a lot of strength in CS. I know Northeastern undergrads doing graduate programs at Harvard and Columbia for various subjects.

This is exactly how I got my masters at Northeastern, so you could do this at both.

UCLA has a very good CS reputation as alluded to, so it could be worth it if other fit factors fit you. That said, if your goal is to work in Silicon Valley postgrad, these will have similar outcomes, at least comparing to Northeastern. UCL again is more complicated because pay for CS in the UK is significantly lower if you don’t come to the US postgrad.

This study looks at top SV hiring of new grads (slide 12) for CS with the top 25 schools. You’ll see UCLA at 19 and Northeastern at 21. This is generally going to favor local schools (hence why you see SJSU for example) and bigger programs (UCF and Texas A&M graduate a lot of CS grads so even if a smaller percentage are hired they will still show up) but is a useful data point.

https://www.docdroid.net/sRCdYZX/hiringsolved2017report-pdf

13

@slimslamsloum I don’t think it will be an impediment at all. My son was just saying that if your goal is going to a prestigious school (and I suppose everyone’s definition can vary slightly as to what a “prestigious” school is) for a Master’s program, he thinks it would be better to choose UCLA over NEU. Once again, that is just his opinion. I am sure many NEU students have gone on to “prestigious” schools for their Masters as well. I agree with @PengsPhils that getting into a good master’s program obviously is heavily dependent on GPA and GRE score.

As for the international community at UCLA, you can’t find a more diverse international campus than UCLA. UCLA admits more international students than most campuses, and there are over 100 countries represented at UCLA. “UCLA sits on 419 acres at the base of the Santa Monica mountains, 5 miles from the Pacific Ocean. The Los Angeles County Museum of Art, the Music Center, Chinatown, Olvera Street, Little Tokyo, and the Downtown business district are a few miles to the east. Mountains, beaches, lakes, and deserts are all within a short drive.” (http://www.admission.ucla.edu/campusprofile.htm)
LA is as international as a city can get, and the UCLA campus is reflective of the city of LA.

Once again, it is just my opinion and my son’s opinion. My daughter will also be attending UCLA in the fall and as you can see, we are sold on UCLA. It is such an amazing campus and well-balanced in every way.

14

“UCLA is recruited by all the top companies. I’ve personally interned with companies such as Honda R&D and Bloomberg LP, and they’ve both mentioned their admiration for UCLA’s focus on theory. Many companies believe that they can teach you practical skills. Additionally, no company looks at the classes you’ve taken in order to gauge your skill. They look at your experience in the workplace as well as your personal projects.”

Do not assume that attending college in the US will allow you to stay and work here permanently, especially with just an undergrad degree. Unless you already have US citizenship you will likely have to return to the UK afterwards.

And the US degree may or may not help in terms of UK jobs. Note that UCLA terms (on the quarter system) are better aligned with UK summer vacations and hence internship programs there than a semester based college would be (late August-early May).

Better to do undergrad in the UK and then either come to the US for a masters/PhD (which gives a slightly better chance of being able to get a job and possibly stay although it’s not guaranteed) or get a job with a US company in the UK and transfer to their US office after a year or two (which would allow you to work here for 6 years).

15

@Twoin18 I do have the US citizenship so that shouldn’t be a problem. I really have no idea where I want to pursue my career after college, and I’m open to everything. I think I’d want to choose the uni that will help me get the broadest range of countries for jobs as possible. I love travelling, and I don’t think I’d see myself work in the same place forever but who knows.

16

@Heyryan227 @Twoin18 @PengsPhils also thanks for your help!!

17

@pengsphils . . . your link in #11 is similar to the other one that makes its rounds with the same snapshot in time in 2017.

Just wanted to point out that UCLA has really stepped up its cohorts of admits within the last five years to its CS/E programs, and I’m sure Northeastern has too. So the new grads in a 2017 hiring cycle would reflect a cohort admitted to college in 2012, maybe 2013, before UCLA made its push to tighten standards.

Additionally, the number of options for CS graduates of colleges in CA is pretty widespread across the state and isn’t limited to Silicon companies, and I’m sure most UCLA CS grads, in this instance, may not favor them.

This could be because the COL in the Bay reflects a higher indexing, which of course starts with housing which is off the charts inflated, and it has seeped into the East Bay where UCB is.

18

@PengsPhils . . . I thought I would try to do a bit more analysis of your link which follows (emphasis on “try”):

https://www.docdroid.net/sRCdYZX/hiringsolved2017report-pdf#page=6

Here’s the link that’s been making its rounds on this board for awhile:

https://qz.com/967985/silicon-valley-companies-like-apple-aapl-hires-the-most-alumni-of-these-10-universities-and-none-of-them-are-in-the-ivy-league/

A lot of the same universities are represented, though the order’s a little different.

And here’s another more expanded version, which includes Microsoft (and Amazon), which put University of Washington in the lead according to most prevalent resumes at tech companies, along with Yelp, UCB, and Homeaway, University of Texas Austin:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/28/the-30-colleges-with-the-most-alums-at-top-tech-companies.html

This latter link undoubtedly took things outside of the Silicon companies and outside of the CS-predominant degrees, though the link you provided does include business, marketing type employees also.

I thought I would try to compile the number of baccalaureates, masters and PhDs that each of “The 25 Most Wanted Alumni in 2017 Tech (Overall)” list on page 12 of your link granted in CS and related (broad) fields in 2017 according the American Society of Engineering Education (with some notes below):

University…………….Baccalaureates……Masters…………….PhDs

  1. UC Berkeley………………859…………………………82………………………29
  2. Stanford………………………273……………………….300…………………….33
  3. Carnegie Mellon….….319……………….………500+.………………….61
  4. Georgia Tech…………….835……………….…….1,047……………………129
  5. USC……………………………259……………………….948…………………….29
  6. SJSU……………………………440……………………598…………………N/A
  7. Waterloo……………………259……………………….166……………………N/A
  8. UT Austin……………………477……………………….186………………….…25
  9. UIUC…………………………….612……………………….264………………….…35
  10. UCSD…………………….….…705……………………….303…………………….30
  11. Cornell……………………….…314……………………….326…………………….48
  12. ASU……………………………464……………………….437…………………….27
  13. NC State………………….…321……………………….436…………………….30
  14. CPSLO…………………………301…………………………26……………………N/A
  15. MIT……………………………398……………………….259…………………….97
  16. Purdue………………………712……………………187……….….………99*
  17. Michigan……………………629…………………….….115………….………….28
  18. TAMU…………………………260………………………147………….………….23
  19. UCLA……………………………223…………………………110……………………….21
  20. Washington………….…239……………………….107………………………18
  21. Northeastern……………248……………………….761……………………21
  22. Santa Clara…………………75…………………………159……………………….2
  23. RIT………………………………150*………………………200………………………4
  24. Central Florida………480…………………………93……………………18
  25. UT Dallas……………………336……………………….505……………………23

*The ASEE data suggested that there were probably more CS graduates outside of the schools of engineering for these universities.

**I actually replaced the number of ASEE CS-type graduates with IPEDS data because the ASEE data seemed too few in number.

Notes:

  • It looks like graduate-degree holders’ institutions were counted. I’m not sure what the procedure would be for those that have degrees from different institutions. Perhaps the grad-degree institution would be take precedence because it will have helped a candidate to obtain employment at a tech. The reasoning behind this is that USC Viterbi’s predominance of graduates are MS degree holders, and the number of BS holders seems low for the upper echelon of universities. This might partially apply to CMU, though there might be more of their graduates outside of engineering per the asterisk. @RichInPitt could you look at my inputs for CMU? I had an especially hard time with the masters' conferrals because of the Information based degrees as stated in the University's ASEE data.
  • Waterloo seems to have too small a number of CS BS and MS graduates to be placed so highly on this list, but the ASEE data suggested that there were more CS graduates outside of engineering. And since it's a Canadian university, it isn't included in IPEDS data.

I still think that most of the ASU graduates are hired by tech companies for their business side in marketing, etc. This appears to be the case for Santa Clara also, because of its low number of CS degrees granted at that university.

Perhaps you can tell me if the number of BS CS degree were too low for NEU, and whether there were others outside of engineering per asterisk, but certainly UCLA had a relatively few number of CS graduates in 2017. The University is in the process currently of growing its engineering school which includes CS, so that number should increase on this list.

A complaint I have in HiringSolved (HS) data is that it is only a one-year snapshot, just as the other two are, all based in 2017. Additionally, I’d like to see them do a more interactive list, where I could run the cursor over a bar and obtain the number of grads HS states were hired. In addition, they can label the Y-axis with actual levels of numbers.