<p>I know someone who turned down HPME @ NU to go to Dartmouth. She didn't change her mind so much for aid, but because she wasn't 100% sure she wanted to be a doctor. If you are 100% sure that's the path you want, that you couldn't possibly want to do anything else, then wait for that aid package. If, however, there is even a shadow of a doubt in your mind that things might get tough, Vandy or Princeton would be far better choices.</p>
<p>Here's some food for thought: My friends also told me she didn't like the whole no MCAT and minimum GPA of 3.0. When I asked her why she said the idea benefitted her and only her. As a patient, she would feel more comfortable knowing her doctor worked there butt off in undergrad, learned as much as possible in order to get into Med school/get a high score on the MCAT. She felt like she might slack off more at NU and not be inclined to learn as much or work as hard which could hurt her later on in med school and inadvertently hurt her patients later on in her career. So like I said before, be 100% sure this is what you want and that you can finance your dream.</p>
<p>But the HPME student is still going to learn the exact same things in med school as the student who goes on the regular 4 year plan to Northwestern's med school, no? And what they learn in med school is what they're going to use to ... and don't forget, they have residency. The 4 years of med school plus the 3-4 years of residency are where they're going to learn those skills. I think that's overthinking it, it's not "slacking" in the least, it just takes some of the pressure off so that a student can explore other areas during their undergrad career. No one can say that a student at NU undergrad is "slacking off" in the least.</p>
<p>So in terms of money,
1. NU=Princeton, if you decide not to go to NU med school or
2. NU=120K+4yr NU med school vs Princeton=160K+4yr of med school.</p>
<p>So unless the med school you choose after Princeton is somehow a cheaper one (which is unlikely if you want any med school that's at least as good as NU med school), you are going to incur more debt than going to NU, assuming you are going to go to med school.</p>
<p>So basically, NU vs Princeton isn't a financial one.
While NU/Princeton vs Vandy is.</p>
<p>I'm an HPME grad who had to make a very similar decision to your own once upon a time. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>You're right about the freedom of mind the program offers. Knowing you've been accepted to a top 20 medical school out of high school makes for much better mental health than any pre-med curriculum. And yes, it potentially makes for a lot more fun undergrad as well. </p></li>
<li><p>I think the program is actually at its best if you take an extra year option. Go do a M</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I am afriad your friend wasn't thinking straight. The philosophy of the program like this is to allow people to pursue academic fields/classes they are truly passionate about, instead of doing everything for grades. I am not saying there's no slacker in the HPME program but then one can also argue people who don't have such guarantee are inclined to take easy majors (a lot of premeds avoid engineering and opt for something easier just to get higher GPA for med school). Most of the HPMEs that I personally knew had high GPAs and many of them were BMEs (one of the tougher majors at NU). </p>
<p>Schools don't change the nature of a person. If you are truly dedicated, you will be serious about what you do and you don't need external pressure to make you find things meaningful to do. HPME allows people who take their academics seriously to pursue their academic interests without worrying the risk of low GPAs.</p>
<p>Sam and I cross posted. He is quite right. Most of us in HPME placed directly into higher level courses (including hum/SS) without concern about grading. Pre-reqs were generally waived if requested. We had a latitude academically we never would have had if we carried the pre-med monkey on our backs. </p>
<p>Interrestingly, as another follow-up to KittyLow's comment, due to a funky administrative requirement upon entering the med school, we had to take the MCATs even though we were in even if we scored a 0. Our median MCATs were higher, without prepping for the test, than our regular admit colleagues. The graduates I've known from HPME are scattered around the country and are, not surprisingly, disproportionately accomplished academics.</p>
<p>Wow, i can't believe how many responses I'm getting...keep it up lol!!!</p>
<p>anyways, NW is a school i was considering strongly before the HPME, but i put it on the side because of cost.</p>
<p>now, i'm thinking, is the med-school guarantee and peace of mind worth the debt? </p>
<p>ANDDD</p>
<p>I guess it all comes down to this: is the med-school guarantee and peace of mind at NW worth more than a cheap vanderbilt or the "world-famous" undergrad experience at princeton (there's really not a place like it)?</p>
<p>Northwestern's HPME program is more prestigious than any Ivy League School, and certainly moreso than Vanderbilt. Three years from now, HPME will look even better if you are at Princeton or Vanderbilt. My best guess is that several hundred pre-meds at Princeton & Vanderbilt would love to have your HPME slot.</p>
<p>Im a medical doctor and I would go to Princeton because you will get into med school if you maintain a 3.3+ average and you will have unmatched social and educational opportunities. You can make up the $$$ later if you are a surgeon.</p>
<p>I love Vandy (and I'm from PA, which makes me want to tell you to come here even more). I would highly suggest you visit this month if you are seriously thinking about coming here--and since you were offered such a generous scholarship.</p>
<p>PS: Brown had a 7 year program when I was applying but it was very intense with summers included. Students studied all weekend starting first year which is not generally necessary for undergraduates taking 4-5 classes instead of the 6 at the combined program. In retrospect the reason I did not apply was that I needed more time for socialization and most likely
I was not mature enough to go straight through starting at age 17, but you may be ready for this.
If you do the NW combined program look into the extra year option mentioned above--operation smile may appeal to you, accomplishing cleft palate and other surgeries on underprivileged children.</p>
<p>Lol, but nervedoctor, how hard is it to maintain that 3.3+ average? And wouldn't I need a much higher than 3.3 to get accepted into a top 20 med school like northwestern??? plus study a lot for my mcats? I must admit, i'm leaning toward NU</p>
<p>Also, I would DEFINITELY take that year off to do something interesting---another huggeee draw for that program</p>
<p>However, call me an idiot, but a big draw to Princeton is its overall aesthetic appeal--they send you a white folder, with things written in that "princeton" font with the orange and black, and the tiger silhouettes, and the invitation to the princeton day, and the personally signed admission letter...you just feel like its a special place lol</p>
<p>also, my grandfather and father went there, making it like a tradition sort of thing--i've been going to the school for reunions since i was three</p>
<p>however, my grandmother says i'd be an "effing fool" if i don't take the HPME</p>
<p>as you can see, i've been thinking a lottttttt lol</p>
<p>also, Vandy08, i checked out ENGAGE--definitely incredible, but they only take like three people into the program---hence the reason its incredible lol</p>
<p>congrats on your acceptances. Frankly, I never have met anyone that I know of in person who was admitted into NU HPME program. Just to put things into perspective, yeah Pton is obviously a very prestigious school, but NU with HPME program is also a very 'special' position to be at. Last year, my h.s.'s val who scored perfect SAT and perfect SAT 2's, and who did research for 2 yrs at local university, was turned down by NU HPME while getting into MIT, Pton, and Harvard. </p>
<p>So, if you are dead-set on pursuing medical career, I would go to NU.</p>
<p>hitme, if you are as good a student as you must be to have been admitted to the NU program and Princeton, you probably will manage to be one of the "three" successful applicants to ENGAGE. The tuition reduction is significant, and given the level of debt you will accrue during medical school, I don't think you should be too quick to dismiss Vanderbilt's offer.</p>
<p>I know quite a few physicians in a variety of fields (college town, lots of hospitals, all their kids are in the AP classes and activities with my kids), and for the most part, they are telling their kids to take the scholarships and avoid undergraduate debt, even if it means State U. You are looking at a more attractive option than that.</p>
<p>I think it would be worth a visit to Nashville, at least. You need to make it a real fact-finding trip, though. Talk to people about med school admission rates for top students, get some real numbers for the ENGAGE program, look at particular majors.</p>
<p>EDIT: Frankly, I think you have a fighting chance to get the 75% tuition package improved to full tuition. Worth a call, in my opinion, explaining the other offers and stating that you are planning a fact-finding visit.</p>
<p>If you do chose Princeton and still want to go to medical school in 4 years then you will know that you made the right career choice. I have a theory, not original however consistent, that if you put off something that you desire, and still want it later, you will be more satisfied in the long run.
Regarding the added value of going to your dream school, my friends and medical collegues still talk about their IVY league days 20+ years after graduation and keep in touch with undergrad friends. The family tradition will also be there for your children. </p>
<p>In terms of the GPA I would take a couple of courses each semester that you enjoy, fulfill some requirement, are less time consuming for you (for example calculus again if you took it in high school, philosophy and religion, languages were easy for me, as well as psychology and biology). I am willing to bet that even a 3.0 and decent MCAT scores would get you into a reasonable medical school and then you could do your residency at a prestigious hospital.</p>
<p>This is my final post on this thread, primarily to allay any confusion caused by my previous comments. In order to know oneself, it is important to ask:-
Are you a risk taker? If not do the Northwestern HPME program. If you are willing to take a risk, see what the best FA situation you can pursue at all 3 places. If you get Vandy for free take it. If not still consider Princeton because:</p>
<p>5-yr med school admission data for Princeton: 92% get into med school.
EVEN IF YOU WANT TO DO RESEARCH (OR BE SUPER SUCCESSFUL)
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO GO TO A TOP 20 MED SCHOOL.
If you can't accept a lesser med school even though you can still do your residency/fellowship at a top place then take HPME.</p>
<p>Nervedoctor,
For a more fair assessment of the risk, it would be better to know the percentage of Princeton students who start of as premeds as freshmen and get accepted to med schools after four years. I suspect this number is much lower than 92%. As many have described in this forum, it is difficult being a premed. There is a natural weeding-out process and a high percentage of students do drop out. For instance, if 50% of students drop out from being premed, the admission rate is 0.5*0.92 = 46%. If 2/3 drop out (not inconceivable), that percent goes down to 31%.</p>
<p>Regarding Princeton, I'm not sure if it really is like my DREAM school. I like the place, but i just feel that the overall competitive nature of all college applications has made it somewhat intense and maybe not as fun for people who went there 20+ years ago.</p>
<p>The only thing that keeps me from NW is money--is $200,000 debt really hard to get paid off, especially if working as a surgeon? Like to me, I would guess this is a common problem for many doctors</p>
<p>Thanks everyone!!!!</p>
<p>Also, MIDMO, how do you think I should go about asking for more money? Just say, "hey, plus the 75% scholarship, do you think I could have some more, since I got into schools A, B, and C?" Lol, I'm not really sure how one does that....</p>
<p>Go Vandy. Its pretty much paid for and has the best social life of the three. The girls are gorgeous, the students are very down-to-earth, and everyone has fun. Enjoy football tailgating, go crazy during March Madness, and take your new Vandy girlfriend out to a nice restaurant.</p>
<p>You are clearly very intelligent and will do well wherever you go. Just remember, happiness in life is journey not a destination.</p>